Moonwitch V MBNA

[robcag]

..... ( have sent TC's to Rob, there are 3 pages so are unlikely to be the original one's printed on the back of the application form, hope this is relevant )......

 

Hi mw7

 

Sorry I haven't replied earlier, but I've been away for a couple of days.

 

As you say, the T&Cs you emailed me are certainly not the ones printed on the back of the application form for the reason you give (3 pages), but also because they mention charges of £12 which only started appearing much later than the 1990s.

 

For those reasons I won't upload them, just reporting back here to keep everything out in the open on the forum.

 

If you decide you do want to upload them yourself for any reason then post #15 of this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html#post1151870 will show you how to do that, and in particular the use of 3rd party hosting sites (free accounts ).

 

Cheers

Rob

[moonwhich7]

I have finally had the chance to sit down and take in all the posts over the last few days. Thank you everybody.:grin:

 

Robcag..I am in your debt again (pardon the pun) Thank you for confirming what I was hoping. I wonder how much the charge was in 1994?

 

Chalkitup…are you able to help with the question above ? And would you happen to have, tucked away in your archives, a copy of the TC’S that would have been on the back of the application forms in 1994 ?

 

car2403 post num 34. WOW! That letter scared ME! (it took a few reads). Attitude, and then some. It does seem to hit every issue head on. Tailor made. I might have to take a deep breath before I put it in the post box though.

 

So, do I send it tomorrow?

I have a feeling they will not be as scared receiving it as I will be of sending it. But if this is what is needed ..................

 

Guess I just need a shove.

 

Moon

Edited October 21, 2008 by moonwhich7

[dpick]

Hi just checked my statements and the first time the £12 charges appeared was on my June 2006 statement and I was getting charges every month then.

 

Hope this info is of use.

 

dpick:)

[lexis200]

 

car2403 post num 34. WOW! That letter scared ME! (it took a few reads). Attitude, and then some. It does seem to hit every issue head on. Tailor made. I might have to take a deep breath before I put it in the post box though.

 

So, do I send it tomorrow?

 

I have a feeling they will not be as scared receiving it as I will be of sending it. But if this is what is needed ..................

 

Guess I just need a shove.

 

Moon

 

SENDITSENDITSENDITSENDITSENDITSENDITSENDITSENDIT!!!

 

Consider yourself properly shoved;)

 

You won't be distressing anyone by sending it (unlike the letters they send your mum), and hopefully (cross fingers/legs/eyes etc) they might take some notice of it!

 

Keeping my fingers crossed for you! (even though it makes typing more of a challenge:D)

 

Lexis:)

[Chalkitup]

Hello Moonwitch,

 

I have a copy of an April 1994 Scenic Series application form tucked away ..... (front and rear) but can not find it at the moment.

 

I think I am correct in saying MBNA charged £25.00 as a penalty in the 90's.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[moonwhich7]

dpick

 

Thanks for that. My your an early riser!

 

Lexis200

 

Thanks soooo much for your posts by the way, they do keep me going on the down days.

 

The letter will be on its way this afternoon. I have it already to go. The shove was much appreciated.

 

Chalkitup

 

Thanks for the info.

 

If the form does come to the surface it would be interesting to have an original to compare with, you never know what they might decide to send me, if anything!

 

 

There has been another letter in the post this morning referring to the one I sent headed 'account is now in dispute'. I am going to try and get it up here myself but need to try and blank out the personal details first. This could take a while.

 

Moon

[moonwhich7]

 

[moonwhich7]

Ta Da !

 

Wow I did it.

 

I was surprised they replied at all. Obviously the contents of the letter are neither here nor there, but does it mean they are finally taking me seriously. Or just being condescending!

 

It wouldn't surprise me if they threw our letters in a bin.

 

Moon

Hope I didn't leave anything in that I shouldn't. If so I apologise.

[robcag]

Ta Da !

 

Wow I did it.

 

 

Well done Moon!

 

It's interesting to see MBNA quoting the Anti-Money Laundering Regs as a reason for continuing to process your (mums) data, they seem to be aware of the regs when it suits them!

 

They are also quoting various sections of the T&Cs which they claim allow them to process your mums data, it's just a pity (for them) that they have failed to provide the T&Cs which were applicable at the time of the account being opened. Who's to know what those T&Cs stated without seeing them?

 

Cheers

Rob

[moonwhich7]

Thanks robcag. I must admit I was pretty chuffed with myself. Your link was a great help and photobucket is alot easier than I imagined.

 

 

They are also quoting various sections of the T&Cs which they claim allow them to process your mums data, it's just a pity (for them) that they have failed to provide the T&Cs which were applicable at the time of the account being opened. Who's to know what those T&Cs stated without seeing them?

 

 

Should I write a similar toned letter pointing this out to them? (Just want to rub there nose in it)

 

Or wait and see what happens after they receive car2403's letter I am sending today. I hoping it will ruffle a few more feathers.

 

Moon

[moonwhich7]

Uh Oh!

 

I have just been scanned this one by my friend who said he found it amongst a pile of envelopes my mum had squirreled away. It is dated the 15/10/08.

 

Errrr....... Has anyone got any ideas on how to deal with this b***er!

 

[lexis200]

Sorry moonwhich, nothing constructive, but I have seen these all over the place and the general consensus seems to be that it's another scare tactic to get you to phone them.

 

I notice there's no date that this write-off will happen, and no date by which you should call them - strange when it's so urgent.

 

Also, in one paragraph they're saying it's been scheduled to be written off, in another they're saying 'we want to keep you as a customer'. Honestly, make up your mind!!!

 

I do however love the little bit on the side 'We will not be able to offer you any more deals, solutions help, advice or time.' That'll be a wrench for you seeing as they've been your bestest friends forever up till now:rolleyes:

 

I haven't had exactly this letter, but I've had similar. After the initial panic, I've settled down a bit and just written back simply stating my position again, that I can only afford what I have offered and that phoning them will not change my financial situation.

 

It's really only to show I'm acknowledging everything and being completely reasonable in my actions, and that they're being gits.

 

Don't worry too much about it though, it really does look like a generic threatogram to me.

 

Lexis:)

[citizenB]

Full of "ifs" and "mays". If my experience is anything to go by, you will receive several more of these in differing formats.

[moonwhich7]

Well people!!!!

 

I have just got off the phone with MBNA and I was given this information.

 

They CAN NOT supply me with the original T&C's as the account is over 10yrs old ( Chalkitup, I am hoping that info will be of use to you).

 

That they DO NOT have the original and it is NOT accessable. One of the explanations were "it's gone away".

 

I think I would be right in saying that car2403's letter, when it hits a desk tomorrow morning, will be perfect timing!!

 

Any thoughts????:grin:

Edited October 21, 2008 by moonwhich7

[car2403]

That they DO NOT have the original and it is NOT accessable. One of the explanations were "it's gone away".

 

What a laff... Where has it "gone away" to? I hope it wasn't Tenerife with that Spanish Airline that has gone under! Siesta!!!!!

 

 

I think I would be right in saying that car2403's letter, when it hits a desk tomorrow morning, will be perfect timing!!

 

Absolutely.

 

Any thoughts????:grin:

 

Yes - I bet they won't put all that in writing. Were you recording the conversation? Remember the forum advice - if it isn't in writing or a recorded conversation, it hasn't happened. Always record your calls, people...

[Chalkitup]

Hello Moonwitch,

 

From experience and as car2403 has replied ..... Do not believe anything they say on the phone ...... I record all calls through computer software which has some very good facilities like playing back past calls whilst having a call ....... some of the conversations I have recorded are absolute crackers ...... have a look here .... the Moorcroft chap was caught a treat telling a fib regarding his OWN surname ...... http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/107261-chalkitup-dcas-2.html#post1680574 .... post 84!!!:grin:

 

So believe nothing they tell you on the phone!!!

 

All fun but on a serious note ... as car2403 said .... MBNA will not put what they told you in writing.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

Edited October 22, 2008 by Chalkitup

[citizenB]

You could of course always write to them asking them to confirm your version of the conversation.

 

Dear MBNA,

 

This is just to confirm the telephone converation with ???? on ???.

 

You agreed, that as you no longer have a copy of any alleged agreement between us, you will be taking no further action as regards this account.

 

You have agreed to:

 

Burn any document bearing my name

Remove my telephone number from your data base

Remove all defaults with CRAs.

 

I look forward to receiving your acknowledgement within 14 days.

 

[moonwhich7]

I just want to clarify with someone, as I am getting all excited and am worried I am getting ahead of myself.

 

If they don't have the original T&C's, is the agreement unenforceable?

 

Could I get them to drop the whole debt?

 

I would quite like to send citezenBs letter if that is the case. I would want to add a few thoughts of my own to it aswell.TEHEHE!

 

However, they would probably take more notice of something car2403 might have up his sleeve. Or has the one I sent yesterday got it covered?

Edited October 22, 2008 by moonwhich7

[lexis200]

Hi Moonwhich

 

I don't think it's the fact they don't have the original T's and C's so much as there are no prescribed terms whatsover on the agreement.

 

In my limited knowledge (please correct me if I'm wrong all of you rather more experienced caggers!), it looks like unless they miraculously turn up with a bona fide two sided document, they're stuffed.

 

If I was in your position (and with regards to the agreement they've sent, I wish I was:rolleyes:), I'd be writing to them asking for it to be written off - or at the very least for them to accept a tiny payment as full and final.

 

Hoping it's as good as it sounds for you - fingers still firmly crossed;)

 

Lexis

[car2403]

I just want to clarify with someone, as I am getting all excited and am worried I am getting ahead of myself.

 

If they don't have the original T&C's, is the agreement unenforceable?

 

Could I get them to drop the whole debt?

 

I would quite like to send citezenBs letter if that is the case. I would want to add a few thoughts of my own to it aswell.TEHEHE!

 

However, they would probably take more notice of something car3403 might have up his sleeve. Or has the one I sent yesterday got it covered?

 

I think you need to chill out a little.

 

The enforceability of the agreement depends on many factors - you've highlighted your issues with their reply, which currently means the debt is unenforceable, so all you need to do now is sit back and await their response.

 

Having said that, you could be proactive and take Court action against them.

 

In either case, having patience will only pay off - getting excited at this stage will only confuse you. Don't forget that there will be long periods where you aren't dealing with this issue. Reading other threads will help to sure up your confidence, but the key is that there isn't much more you can do at this stage, so...

 

Chill out...

 

[moonwhich7]

Thanks car2403

 

I thought I was jumping the gun a bit. Ah well, sit tight it is then (with fingers well crossed lexis )

 

Patience is a virtue!

 

Moon

Edited October 22, 2008 by moonwhich7

[moonwhich7]

I had two letters arrive this morning. This is the first one and most relevant. The opening paragraph is interesting.

 

As you see it was sent yesterday, I don't think this department would have received the letter that arrived yesterday to the general address. Or is this all they intend to say on the matter.

 

Even though they know full well this account is in dispute they are continuing to make charges! They are really p***ing me off now:evil:

 

 

Moon

[moonwhich7]

The letter they are referring to is this one.

 

 

 

09 October 2009

 

 

ACCOUNT NOW IN DISPUTE

 

 

 

Account No:

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter 7th October 2008, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account. and as yet I have not received the S. A. R. requested many times both verbally, in writing and by official letter.

 

On 12th September 2008 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 30th September 2008. And as yet I have not received the S. A. R. requested many times both verbally, in writing and officially.

 

 

 

The CCA document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I shall assume this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Edited October 23, 2008 by moonwhich7

[car2403]

Please note no further correspondance will be entered in to regarding this matter

 

Ok then, just take Court action against them to have the debt declared enforceable - when the Judge sees that comment, they will be liable to your costs because they've forced your hand.

 

[moonwhich7]

Ok then, just take Court action against them to have the debt declared enforceable - when the Judge sees that comment, they will be liable to your costs because they've forced your hand.

 

 

 

Umm after reading your post, there was a very sharp intake of breath, shocked silence for a couple of minutes and then a gulp. Taking them to court is something I was wanting to avoid at all costs. I wouldn't know where to start. However, it does appear it may be the only way I can go. I would have to be very confident I could win. If I just made things worse for my mother I would never forgive myself.

 

I really don't know what I am going to do, or how to, what ever it is.:-?