Alliance/leicester Credit Card With Mbna - No Cca Sent By MBNA

[angel_1]

Hiya all

 

Im starting this new thread as ive only had the terms and conditions from mbna for my cca request with regard to my alliance & leicester credit card.

 

i had started the original thread chasing up 3 seperate credit cards with mbna,

 

i would like to link the two thread not sure how to at the moment, can anyone help pls?

 

i will be back in a moment once ive update the other thread ciao maz

[Chalkitup]

Hiya all

 

Im starting this new thread as ive only had the terms and conditions from mbna for my cca request with regard to my alliance & leicester credit card.

 

i had started the original thread chasing up 3 seperate credit cards with mbna,

 

i would like to link the two thread not sure how to at the moment, can anyone help pls?

 

i will be back in a moment once ive update the other thread ciao maz

 

Original thread here:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/154822-cca-request-mbna-my.html

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[angel_1]

As always there is always a helping hand here, many thanks Chalkitup

 

i can see you have done what i did try to do, with the 2 threads.

 

i must learn how to do it, a short few sentences please,lol maybe i can do it next time

 

off to do dinner will be back laters,

 

ciao for now MAZ:cool:

[Hopeful1]

Hi Maz

 

All you need to do is highlight the thread title, copy it and then paste it into the post you are writing.

 

Here's a thread written by Bookworm, that helps with all sorts of useful bits and pieces:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

[Chalkitup]

As always there is always a helping hand here, many thanks Chalkitup

 

i can see you have done what i did try to do, with the 2 threads.

 

i must learn how to do it, a short few sentences please,lol maybe i can do it next time

 

off to do dinner will be back laters,

 

ciao for now MAZ:cool:

 

Hello Maz,

 

Thank you for clicking my scales ... very kind.

 

Hopeful1 has explained above how to do the links ..... The "Dummies Guide" (He He ) thread is very useful.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[citizenB]

Hi maz, you might want to take a look at this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/145452-stayingcalm-abbey-no-cca.html

 

Stayingcalm is now at the court stage part and it is hoped of course that you dont need to get that far. But you will see escpecially in the later postings the frustration that is being experienced due to MBNA taking over another credit card in this case Abbey. The later postings might just give you some idea of what to do.

[angel_1]

hiya all

many thanks for your posts, i can see its going to be lots of reading,

 

so will be back laters ciao for now maz

[angel_1]

hello

 

update, had a call from alliance and leicester this morning, at 8.21 caught me out thought it was my daughters friend

 

anyway they asked for my first name i did say yes and then with my full name, and they said who they were, very very sneaky dont you think,lol

 

anyway she wanted to speak with me i said i couldnt taking daughter to college, then she replied later i said i had already informed them to correspond in writint only - she replied you know we are a telephone banking, and would try me later, i replied, well no one will answer the phone and ive ensure they cant leave me a message as ive blocked the message service and it s full.... oh the devil in me today

 

So

1. as i was due to pay them by today i guess i understand the phone call but they have only sent me terms and conditions paperwork from mbna who advised they were sorry couldnt send me a copy of the original cca

 

i guess now is the time to send the letter account in dispute?

[angel_1]

hiya all, thanks for the posts, seen the link thanks citizenb

 

have come across this letter by slick123 on another thread, wondered if i could send this as they have only sent me it looks like current terms and conditions and in their letter simply said,

 

" We are sorry we have not been able to send you a photocopyof the original for xxxx, but hope that you will find the enclosed copy clear to read and sufficient for your purpose".

 

My needs are a copy of the original cca, but my memory is telling me that i applied for alliance and leicester current account online, and maybe i applied online for the credit card too, cant remember thus could this be why cannot provide me with a copy of my cca, surely there must be something else in place for online applications?

My further thoughts are should i include something to say that whilst in default i will be holding back payments until i receive a copy of the true and valid complete credit card agreement.

Or send out the the letter titled account in dispute which i think does say about not obliged to offer payment or be requested to pay until the dispute is remedied, but cant locate a letter at the moment,

I want to be as direct and impossing as i can as i think will start getting the harrassing phone calls again.

I await your comments - thanks maz

*******

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

 

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable. I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that, whilst the request has not been complied with, the default continues.

 

Finally, if you do not have a True copy of the Credit Agreement, you should confirm this in writing.

Edited September 17, 2008 by maz1964

[angel_1]

hi further to my post 9 have now found the letter i was thinking of, so no more payments to them until i get my cca

 

and also it says about the telephone calls i will start recording them have done so far with this one this morning.

 

What do you guys think?

 

suppose i could add the bit about correspondence in writing no more telephone calls on the above letter, will await on the expertise Ciao for now MAZ

*****

 

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Your ref:

 

 

Thank you for your letter of **DATE**, the contents of which are noted.

I refer to my letter of **DATE** a copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

As you are unable to provide me with a true copy of my alleged Credit Agreement this account is now in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I am entitled to receive a copy of the credit agreement on request

I also understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

Should you fail to provide me with the True copy I have requested, I require written confirmation of this and your proposals for resolving the matter.

 

I also require you to confirm that you will comply with the OFT guidelines, and not attempt any further collection activity whilst the dispute is unresolved, as per OFT guidelines.

 

I reserve the right report your lack of compliance to Trading Standards, Financial Ombudsman Service and any other agencies I see fit.

 

Take notice that I will not discuss this matter on the telephone, and all further communication must be in writing. Any further telephone calls will be perceived as harassment, and dealt with accordingly.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and look forward to your response in the hope of resolving this dispute in an amicable manner.

 

 

Yours faithfully

[citizenB]

Nice one Maz.

 

However, having sent something similar to Halifax some while back, they have now replied using the moral highground ie.. "you have had the money, now you must pay it back " . They have admitted on 2 occasions that they DO NOT have a copy of the agreement and acknowledge that through the courts they would be unable to enforce... but, they are going to continue their debt collection procedures. IE. Phone me (if they can find the number), threaten me with doorstep collectors and solitor letters.. Ho hum..

[angel_1]

Hiya CitizenB

 

so you are being still chased but not paying them anything i take it?

or?

 

so worth a try then by me to send the letter in post 9 first and adding the bit about

Take notice that I will not discuss this matter on the telephone, and all further communication must be in writing. Any further telephone calls will be perceived as harassment, and dealt with accordingly.

 

just to see what if anything i get back from them and will contiune logging any calls from them too.

 

ciao for now maz

[citizenB]

I was paying them right up until the time, even after defaulting on my CCA request, they decided to set Blair Oliver Scott on to me with threats of court action etc.

 

Yes, send your letter, especially including the bit about all communication in writing.

[angel_1]

hiya all - upate my letter been sent, await on their responce

 

thanks citizenB, i understand what you are saying - halifax told me that at the moment they wouldnt send my acc to blair for another 6 months, so will see what happens now when i do get round to cca them

 

good morning, got up with a bit of a moment of madness

 

just wondering if this could fall under the online application process, as maybe this is the reason they cannot send me a copy of the cca

 

im going to be S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) the alliance and leicester for the current account so would it be wise to also add the alliance and leicester credit card too, which is issued by mbna and whom ive been chased by ?

 

will check in laters for your kind comments thank you as got my postal order ready for al/leic S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request

 

i think last count on the charges i got from my statements is about 800.00 charges so want to really start a claim on that too but will start a new thread for that.

 

ciao for now laters - MAZ

Edited September 25, 2008 by maz1964

[citizenB]

hiya all

 

thanks citizenB, i understand what you are saying - halifax told me that at the moment they wouldnt send my acc to blair for another 6 months, so will see what happens now when i do get round to cca them

 

good morning, got up with a bit of a moment of madness

 

just wondering if this could fall under the online application process, as maybe this is the reason they cannot send me a copy of the cca

 

im going to be S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) the alliance and leicester for the current account so would it be wise to also add the alliance and leicester credit card too, which is issued by mbna and whom ive been chased by ?

 

will check in laters for your kind comments thank you as got my postal order ready for al/leic S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request

 

i think last count on the charges i got from my statements is about 800.00 charges so want to really start a claim on that too but will start a new thread for that.

 

ciao for now laters - MAZ

 

The S.A.R. requests ALL information regarding your banking history with a company. So if you have current accounts. savings accounts, investment accounts, credit card accounts etc.. with the same company they should provide everything regarding that.

[angel_1]

hiya citizenB

 

excellent - this way i can then check on all the charges for the current account and the credit account too

 

plus if there is a cca for the credit card account in theory they should supply it, if they dont then i will be back to ask more lol

 

as always thank you for your speedy reply much appreciated

 

ciao for now off to do my letter - laters maz

[angel_1]

update

 

rec letter from all/leic,,, advising me or should i say

 

reminding me that when payments against agreement are not made, the whole debt outstanding becomes immediately due for demand. if it is a worry then i would be unable to comply to pay the whole debt,,,,,

 

they have tried by letter (no you have not) and telephone (yes - but told them only in writing)

 

unless i contact them immed consider dca and/or courts by a claim

 

they would rather deal personally and amicably - contact immed on xxx

 

-----

 

guessing the above standard letter?

 

my letter went to them on same day they posted theirs i have rec about the account in dispute as such as they had only sent me current terms and conditions and no cca

 

so should i wait on them now?

 

Also am awaiting of course the SARS that may or may not include the cca

 

- at least it has got their attention ive not paid them this month hopefully they find a cca or something for me, but of course this might have been an online agreement when i did online the current account with alliance/leic- the laws changed for online agreeements, but surely should still send me the information regarding the agreement at time of me accepting it?

 

thanks laters maz

[Hopeful1]

Hi Maz

 

Give them time to receive / respond to your letter. I'm sure a lack of payment will give them the much needed ass kick that they need!

 

It'll be interesting to see what the S.A.R reveals.

[angel_1]

hiya hopeful

 

that is what i was thinking, they have just given me lip service re the letter i received as it was supposed to be posted the day i didnt want to speak with them on the phone

 

so am awaiting my sars, plus they are now aware the reason ive stopped the payment until i get my copy of my True agreement

 

see you all laters maz

[angel_1]

hiya all

 

pls take a look at this thread if you can help this poster, i promised i would pass his thread about to far more experienced members to help - thank you - maz

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/161135-block-impending-default-mbna.html

[angel_1]

Hiya all had some positive feedback off folks from my thread i started on the below link

 

so thought i would add to all my threads for others to view incase missed

 

take care, im healthy by the way,,,lol - just now venturing on truely healthy but being debt free. yipeeeeeeeeeeee

 

ciao laters maz

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/161717-information-commissioners-office-site.html

[angel_1]

hiya update guys

 

not been that well in past week and not my usual self and posted only very little

 

got another threata letter from al/leic advising that not able to contact me and ive not responded to prev letter - have to call them immed

 

failure etc legal action, ccj, etc to contact their account managers etc

 

--

 

guess one of the usual letters,

 

However, they have yet to respond to my letter advising them that i require a copy of the true cca with the t and c of when agreement taken out and not of current t and c's.

 

Should I now respond - with another of my letters as advised previously account in dispute? or just log it all and still not pay them this month

 

I await your comments, and also i will also post sars as just need to get to the post office now

ta ciao laters maz

[citizenB]

You can a) ignore or b) send them something along the lines of the following.

 

Dear,

 

Account in dispute

 

Thank you for your letter dated XX XXXXX 2008 wherein you state that I have not responded to your previous letters.

 

I take exception to this untruth as I have responded to all of your correspondence, whereas you have totally ignored my request of XX XXXX 2008.

 

Until you have responded to that request, then this account remains in dispute.

 

 

 

Yours xxx

[angel_1]

hiya thanks citizenb

 

i thought id come back now after your last post ive now since rec a supposed reply to my prev letter

 

they basically disagree with me, they are confident that ive been provided with the necessary info, which they are req to provide me with.They also go on to say they are not req to serve a copy of the credit agreement which includes signatures, as the law expressly permits lenders to omit signatures from copies of all credit agreements, What they have to send is a true copy containing all the necessary material terms and conditions which is what they have sent me.

 

As they have previously adv, should alliance and leic be able to provide a copy of the original application i would get a copy forwarded to me.

 

if i fail to respond to their letters my phone numbers may get set up again

 

end

 

*****

 

so all this now on all/leic letterhead, this gets so confusing from mbna

 

anyway

quick points -

1. are they possibly right about the true copy and not to serve me a copy of the agreement?

2. as this is now an internet application about 2 years ago, this was confirmed on the sars report i got by the way - reason why i have so far not been able to have a cca with my signature? cant remember how all this got set up.

3. are they taking the micheal out of me or is it infact LAW that they can omit signatures from copies of the credit agreements - and what does this actually mean for me in obtaining a valid and executed agreement?

 

of course i would need to respond to them soon and of course for my paper trails info.

 

i could use thenparts of the citizenb reply above

 

i await your kind advice thank you all

 

ciao for now maz have a fun day

[Hopeful1]

Hi Maz

 

If this account was set up online then they wouldn't be any signatures. When i log on tonight i will find the link re legislation for online acc.

 

Is this the account where there are a far amount of charges?