Natwest And Payment Loan Protection

[Fred_Funk]

It's like this...

 

I started a new job in April 1988 which necessitated the purchase of a car - to this end, NatWest loaned me £4,053, including a PLP element of £553.

 

I only recently came to realise that any such insurance must have been 'mis-sold' as - quite apart from NatWest's failure to ensure I was fully aware of what I was signing up for; advise me that there may be cheaper alternatives; etc; etc - I was starting a new job and, therfore, hadn't been in continuous employment for six months and wouldn't have qualified for any pay-outs under the terms of the PLP.

 

The person who sold me the policy was well aware of my reason for having to purchase a car and ought, therefore, to have advised me there was no point in paying for the PLP.

 

PLEASE CAN SOMEONE CONFIRM I'M THINKING ALONG THE RIGHT LINES?!

 

Moreover, is anyone able to confirm that there would have been a clause referring to continuous employment in any PLP sold by NatWest at this time? I assume there would, as it seems to be standard practice in all types of PPI, but am still waiting for a response to my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to confirm this.

 

Thanks in anticipation

Fred_Funk

[yourbank]

Fred, that is going back to 1988. When was the loan finished?

[Fred_Funk]

Sorry, I meant 1998... doh!

 

The first repayment was on Jun 24 1998 and the final one approximately three years later.

[yourbank]

Thank god to a degree. I was thinking 1988 and that you have no chance. To make you absolutely certain, there has never been any clause that the bank have to tell you that there are cheaper alternatives. That is like saying have a current account with NatWest but Halifax pay more, does that make sense?

However, and this is not my strong point on the forums(never really got involved on the PPI side), if the cover meant that you were ineligible to claim then it is missold. I have to make sure that you wait for others who ARE more experience like Hellsonfury, to respond because there maybe other things advised on PPI. I am not an expert on that part of things, ok?

[Fred_Funk]

Fingers crossed, some kind soul will be able to point me in the right direction... I'm after a spreadsheet which can deal with mis-sold PPI on a NatWest loan and the interest incurred as a result of this.

 

Futhermore, I'm also looking for compound interest, at the rate charged to me by NatWest, to compensate for their unjust enrichment and would, therefore, like a spreadsheet which can cope with this too.

 

I've spent the last couple of hours searching high and low on here but, alas, to no avail. The only thing I can find are the spreadsheets for current accounts and credit cards in the templates library and, try as I might, I simply can't get 'em to do the job.

 

Please, someone point me in the right direction!

 

As ever, thanks in anticipation

Fred_Funk

Edited July 16, 2008 by Fred_Funk

[Fred_Funk]

Thanks yourbank.

 

Appreciate this isn't your area of expertise but, just wondered, can you confirm that it's usual for NatWest PLP to make pay-outs dependent on something like 'six months continuous employment'.

 

Assuming this is the case then, clearly, I was just about to start a new job when I took out this loan yet wasn't advised that this would render me illegible for any pay-out, thereby making, IMO, the insurance mis-sold.

[deb4tlj]

Hi Fred. I discovered this interest calculator a couple of weeks ago and it's been invaluable - hope it's of some help to you.

 

New Square Chambers - Interest Calculator

[deb4tlj]

Could be wrong here Fred but I'm almost positive that one of the stipulations for PPi is that you have to have been in continous employment (length varies depending on company I think) prior to the PPi application.

[yourbank]

without seeing a copy of the PLP from 1998 I simply cannot say. If it said that then you would have been ineligible for it at that time.

As I said, wait for some other experienced PPI posters who can clarify this.

[Fred_Funk]

Thanks deb4tlj but I don't think that's quite what I'm looking for.

 

I just want a spreadsheet which can calculate how much of the loan repayment I made every month was attributable to the mis-sold PPI and can then calculate the compound interest accordingly (as an equitable remedy to NatWest's unjust enrichment).

 

Anyone?!

[alanalana]

Hello fred,

 

this may help you from this site bank templates library.

 

6. Interest calculation spreadsheets

 

aa

[Fred_Funk]

It may just be me but, as far as I can see, there isn't a template available there which does compound interest (as Vamp's used to do).

 

Edited July 16, 2008 by Fred_Funk

[alanalana]

Hello fred,

 

you could try this as found by bankerrhymeswith ..it is the oft calculator but it is complex should be able to sort your compound interest once you get an idea on how it works.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/consumer-regulations/dualcalc/dualcalc/

 

You will need to download it but it looks a cracking calculator and one the banks simply cannot argue with as it is OFT.

 

aa

[steven4064]

The reason you are having difficulty is because there is no ready made spreadsheet to do this. You will have to use dualcalc I think. I was going to post a link but it seems the OFT server now wants a usernamd and password.

 

Try yourself later - Google 'dualcalc oft' to find the link. You can download it to your own PC. It is not very obvious how to use it but I think the way to calculate what you want is as follows:

 

Put in the total loan (loan+PPI), monthly repayments and number of repayments. Click 'calculate' and it should come up with the correct APR. All these figures should be on your loan agreement.

 

Repeat the calculation with just the loan, same number of repayments and then do several runs with different monthly repayments until you get the same APR.

 

The difference between the two monthly repayments is then the monthly chareg for PPI+interest

 

If you can't get your head round that (or can't download dualcalc) perhaps you can send me the figures and I'll have ago.

[deb4tlj]

Thanks deb4tlj but I don't think that's quite what I'm looking for.

 

I just want a spreadsheet which can calculate how much of the loan repayment I made every month was attributable to the mis-sold PPI and can then calculate the compound interest accordingly (as an equitable remedy to NatWest's unjust enrichment).

 

Anyone?!

 

You could always have a go at doing your own spreadsheet from scratch - found this great site to help do just that.

 

Excel Spreadsheets for Beginners: Financial Functions

[hellhasnofury]

It's like this...

 

I started a new job in April 1988 which necessitated the purchase of a car - to this end, NatWest loaned me £4,053, including a PLP element of £553.

 

I only recently came to realise that any such insurance must have been 'mis-sold' as - quite apart from NatWest's failure to ensure I was fully aware of what I was signing up for; advise me that there may be cheaper alternatives; etc; etc - I was starting a new job and, therfore, hadn't been in continuous employment for six months and wouldn't have qualified for any pay-outs under the terms of the PLP.

 

The person who sold me the policy was well aware of my reason for having to purchase a car and ought, therefore, to have advised me there was no point in paying for the PLP.

 

PLEASE CAN SOMEONE CONFIRM I'M THINKING ALONG THE RIGHT LINES?!

 

Moreover, is anyone able to confirm that there would have been a clause referring to continuous employment in any PLP sold by NatWest at this time? I assume there would, as it seems to be standard practice in all types of PPI, but am still waiting for a response to my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to confirm this.

 

Thanks in anticipation

Fred_Funk

 

Hello Fred,

 

See you going for the nastywest:D

 

I was very successful with a loan I took out with them in 2001, but have not been very successful with 3 loans prior to that. They state their databases do not hold any information from that period and I must confess it is like trying to get blood out of a stone, but onwards and upwards, I am happy with the situation as it stands.

 

My case is a little bit more complicated, in the fact they have defaulted me on this loan and are threatening recovery action on the alleged balance, of which their is no credit agreement so the account is in legal dispute and has been for over a year. I have calculated that they owe me over £18,000 in ppi premiums over the 3 previous loans, plus statutory interest:confused: So I am waiting for their next move.

 

Regarding your loan, I fear that they will state they do not hold any information regarding it as they do not have a legal obligation to retain information from 1998. but don't let that put you off. If you know your figures, work out the contractual or statutory interest and send them your prelim, state your reasons for mis=selling and see what they come back with. You can then turn around their arguement with the relevant legislation ie misrepresentation act, will turn the onus on them to prove they did not mis-sell you it.

 

During these years mis-selling was rife, many customers did not even realise they had it on the loan (I didn't know till I found this site and started to investigate) Don't forget this is why the ppi market is under investigation and companies are being heavily fined.:grin:

 

When you send your prelim, you are inviting them into a sincere dialogue, but be ready for them,

[steven4064]

The problem is that you have to use an iterative solution method to solve the equations - there is no formula to do it

[Bog]

I have actually done a spreadsheet, which gives a fairly accurate figure and helped me with my sucessfull calim with First Plus.

 

It's not perfect, but my figure was very close to what First Plus refunded (

 

I have sent it to a couple on Mods for review and upload to the site, but no one has come back to me

[Bog]

The problem is that you have to use an iterative solution method to solve the equations - there is no formula to do it

 

?????

 

If you are guessing your figures then yes, but if you do your SAR and get the actual figures from the lender, then it is possible to calculate!

[steven4064]

I would be interested to see it Bog - if you want, send it to my CAG e-mail

 

The SAR won't give the figures in the detail Fred needs for what he istrying to do, which is to separate out the PPI from the loan.

[Bog]

I'll send it through to you, as I would welcome the feedback. I'm far from an expert on these calculations, but if between us we can create a spreadsheet which other CAG users can use (If relevant to their circumstances)

[Fred_Funk]

Thanks to everyone who's taken the time to contribute to this thread.

 

I think I've finally managed to get my brain into gear and sort things out - though if someone can confirm my figures sound about right it would be much appreciated.

 

Fortunately, I have my old statements from which I deduced I had a loan for just over 4k - of which £553 was, IMO, mis-sold PPI (or PLP as NatWest prefers to call it) - and made 36 repayments of £140.19.

 

By my reckoning that means I repaid a shade over 5k in total and, according to a loan calculator I found online, the APR was 15.94% or thereabouts.

 

My old statements also detail the breakdown of my 36 monthly repayments - in June 1998, £50.14 of the £140 was interest by May 2001 it was just £1.70 - and using them I've come up with some figures to input on a version of Vamp's compound interest spreadsheet for current accounts.

 

That tells me the £553 I paid for my mis-sold PLP in 1998 with compound interest at NatWest's 15.94% now equates to £2,510.96. In addition, the interest paid on penalties over the three-year term totals £235.79 and the compound interest on this is a further £620.05. This produces a grand total of £3,366.80.

 

So, my question to you guys, do these figures seem feasible?!

 

As ever, thanks in anticipation

Fred_Funk

[steven4064]

OK I checked - loan of £4053 paid by 36 installments of £140.19 = 15.9% APR

 

£553 at 15.9% over 10 years gives interest of £2418.57 altough the interest you actually paid is over 3 years - £860.95

[Fred_Funk]

Steven

 

Thanks for taking the trouble to have a look at this.

 

Just not quite sure what you're trying to say in your second line... where does the £860.95 figure for interest I actually paid over three years come from?!

 

Are you saying some of my calculations are incorrect?

 

Fred_Funk

[steven4064]

The £860.95 is £553 at 15.9% over three years - but that's not what we want to calculate anyway because it ignores the payments you made.

 

It goes back to what I said a few posts ago - we need to do this with dualcalc.

 

I'm tied up until later tonight (possibly tomorrow) but I'll try and have a look at it and come up with the 'right' answer