MTB v Halifax

[alamand]

Hi Citizen

 

internet connection went then

 

CCA'd them April 2007.

 

Received application form in July 2007.

 

I sent the CPR request to their litigation team, named on the court papers.

 

It seems they have sent the request to their customer services who have responded with this letter.Why would they mention the affidavit, (written statement made on oath) thanks Collinns dict.

 

In the CCA it doesn't mention anything about court proceedings, so why mention the affidavit.

 

This is the only answer I can think of.

 

Alamand

[alamand]

Many many thanks Hopeful

 

Its strange, you find out something new to question them on, everytime you read a new thread.

 

Alamand

[citizenB]

Hi Hopeful

 

Its unbelievable.

 

I cant believe all the mistakes and blunders we have found in less than 24 hours.

 

I have gone from thinking at least 3 years behind bars, to having a fighting chance.

 

 

And there was me taking a masterclass in baking so I could fetch you cakes with files/hacksaws in them:D

[citizenB]

Hi Citizen

 

internet connection went then

 

CCA'd them April 2007.

 

Received application form in July 2007.

 

I sent the CPR request to their litigation team, named on the court papers.

 

It seems they have sent the request to their customer services who have responded with this letter.Why would they mention the affidavit, (written statement made on oath) thanks Collinns dict.

 

In the CCA it doesn't mention anything about court proceedings, so why mention the affidavit.

 

This is the only answer I can think of.

 

Alamand

 

It does seem really bizarre. I guess all you can do is keep all the paperwork organised for when you have to submit the next lot to the court. Perhaps it will become clear by then !!. BTW, if you do start a new thread in the legal forum, dont forget to put a link here.

[alamand]

Thanks Citizen

 

A nice chocolate one will do fine.

 

As you say, all I can do now is wait for the next step.

I have started reading up in the legal section.

 

At least I can sleep now and not panic as much, as I have read so much in the last 3 days and the excellent support and advice from you guys, have made me understand things a lot better.

 

Ever greatful

Alamand

[citizenB]

Thanks Citizen

 

A nice chocolate one will do fine.

 

As you say, all I can do now is wait for the next step.

I have started reading up in the legal section.

 

At least I can sleep now and not panic as much, as I have read so much in the last 3 days and the excellent support and advice from you guys, have made me understand things a lot better.

 

Ever greatful

Alamand

 

That's good. Try and enjoy the rest of the weekend.

[alamand]

Unfortunatly, back at work this weekend.

But I did relax and have a jar or two last night.

[FANTASY CHARGES]

JUST LOOKED AT YOUR POST NO.1

 

UNDER THE HEADING

 

PRINCIPAL CARDHOLDERS APPLICATION & DECLARATION

 

me realised i have seen these exact phrases some of which it is beloeved unenforceable {UNFAIR} under uttr -- unfair terms --

 

have worked out why me has seen these terms before

 

because he halifax building society along with some other building societies used an "agent" (loose choice of words here) namely the dunfermline visa centre

 

 

"

Name :VISA CENTRE PROCURES DEALS TO CREATE MORE LOCAL JOBSDescription :Bank of Scotland Visa Centre expands. Expect 100 new jobs by Feb 1989. Top 20 largest employer in Fife.Date :Reference :Dunf Press 23/09/1988 p 1.Keywords :Visa Centre, Bank of Scotland, Pitreavie Industrial Estate

"

 

source

 

Dunfermline Heritage

 

hence halifax building society who this agreement is between have not signed the agreement

 

may it humbly be suggested that if this visa centre did have the right to sign for the halifax then this should have been contained within the original terms and conditions ???

 

 

so please can we have the original t & c from 1990 :D:D

[FANTASY CHARGES]

sorry forgot to mention the obvious this was signed by someone who worked in the

 

Bank of Scotland Visa Centre

[car2403]

Isn't that the function of s.61, though?

 

61.—(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner

 

Doesn't mean they have to be an agent?

[FANTASY CHARGES]

Dunfermline Heritage

 

more sources of info about this dunfermline visa centre here

[alamand]

Hi Fantasy

 

I havn't got T&C's from 1990, Halifax have sent me their recent T&C's in my opinion.

They mention credit card protection on the T&C's, on application form it is written as Credit Care,and Apr is 18.95% but on application form it is 28%and the numbered clauses which they are under on the T&C's, do not match the numbers on the application form.

 

61

.—(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner

 

Looking at your post above I think that the visa centre can sign the agreement as it is part of Bank of Scotland and that they are acting on behalf of Halifax and they must handle all of Bank of Scotlands different visa's (I think there are quite a few).

 

I think what I am going to fight them on now, is the 2 different account numbers on the application form, and that neither of them match the account number of the account that they have taken me to court with. We have only ever had 1 credit card with Halifax, so I don't know where they have got 3 different account numbers from.

 

Alamand

[citizenB]

Hi Fantasy

 

 

 

I think what I am going to fight them on now, is the 2 different account numbers on the application form, and that neither of them match the account number of the account that they have taken me to court with. We have only ever had 1 credit card with Halifax, so I don't know where they have got 3 different account numbers from.

 

 

Alamand

 

 

Hehehe.. check out these two threads.. This will let you know how devious Halifax / RBOS are with their account numbers. They are both quite long threads so you might just need a couple more of those 'jars' you had last night:lol:

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/11427-walton-rbos.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/56333-big-claim-aginst-rbos.html

[alamand]

Cheers Citizen

 

I will have a look and settle down for the night.

 

Alamand

[FANTASY CHARGES]

Hi Fantasy

 

I havn't got T&C's from 1990, Halifax have sent me their recent T&C's in my opinion.

They mention credit card protection on the T&C's, on application form it is written as Credit Care,and Apr is 18.95% but on application form it is 28%and the numbered clauses which they are under on the T&C's, do not match the numbers on the application form.

 

 

 

Looking at your post above I think that the visa centre can sign the agreement as it is part of Bank of Scotland and that they are acting on behalf of Halifax and they must handle all of Bank of Scotlands different visa's (I think there are quite a few).

 

I think what I am going to fight them on now, is the 2 different account numbers on the application form, and that neither of them match the account number of the account that they have taken me to court with. We have only ever had 1 credit card with Halifax, so I don't know where they have got 3 different account numbers from.

 

 

Alamand

 

 

NO NO NO ........ IN 1990

THE BANK OF SCOTLAND WERE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO (BECAUSE THE HALIFAX WAS KNOWN AS A BUILDING SOCIETY OWNED BY ITS MEMBERS -YOU AND ME IN 1990 ------- WHILST IN 1990 THE BANK OF SCOTLAND WAS OWNED BY ITS SHAREHOLDERS -----------

 

IT IS BELIEVED THAT AROUND 1990 THE BANK OF SCOTLAND ( MEANING THE VISA CENTER AT DUNFERMLINE FIFE) DID A LOT OF PROCESSING FOR MANY BUILDING SOCIETIES ????

[FANTASY CHARGES]

ok have found this for you

 

"by 1988 the bank of scotland visas centre was handling one million of its own cards and a number of others processed on a bureau basis"

 

can someone explain the role of the bureau ??

 

link see page 85

 

Expertise and Innovation ... - Google Book Search

[FANTASY CHARGES]

HALIFAX

Background

xxxx Halifax launched a Classic Visa credit card in July 1988, operated as a joint venture with

BoS (see paragraph xxxx) which carried out the processing at its Visa Centre at Dunfermline. Halifax

was not a merchant acquirer.

[alamand]

Hi Fantasy

 

Do you know when BOS took over Halifax.

 

I have had another look at the application form, it clearly states Visa Centre Dunfermiline at the top and their signiture box contains for visa centre use, so surely they would be allowed to sign the application form on behalf of Halifax, otherwise why have it on. Plus wouldn't it be difficult to prove after 18 years that the person who signed it, didn't work for Halifax and that they worked for the visa centre.

 

I understand now that your saying it wasn't Halifax who signed the agreement, but BOS. But I think, wouldn't it be an impossibilty to prove that Halifax didn't sign? (my opinion, if I've got what your thinking)

 

Alamand

[alamand]

Whats a merchant aquirer?

[FANTASY CHARGES]

HAVE INSPECTED ALL YOUR IMAGES

 

nowhere on anything does it say who the agreement is between !!!!!

 

underneathe the bit about this agreement is under the CCAct 1974 etc etc

 

it should say this agreement is betwwn say ( i am making this up)

 

Halifax card services and you

 

then somewhere it should define halifax card services as being a joint 50-50 venture between halifax and bos

 

 

but there is absolutely nothing

 

when the footie finishes others will come along and comment

[alamand]

So if it was a joint venture, then they could sign the agreement then?

[alamand]

I agree with what you are saying.

I think thats why the T&C,s are important. The T&C's they have sent me are recent ones and it states "agreement between Halifax and myself(OH really) and it includes cancellation notice.

 

But they hav'nt sent the original.According to the application form it says the T&C's are on the reverse,so why havn,t they sent them.

 

This application form though can it seems, double up as a credit agreement because it has all the prescribed terms on it. So if that is the case, it wont have "a credit agreement between xx and xx" on it.

 

Its all very confusing

 

Alamand

[rosierose]

Hi Steven

 

No.

 

They are printed on A4 size paper, front and back.

 

There are not 1990 t&c's because I have just read the

"credit card repayments Cover. [tick box].I understand Iam purchasing the product ticked above on credit provided by you and that the terms relating to credit for the products can be found in conditions 1 - 4 in this agreement "

I my application form it doesnt mention Credit care until condition 12.

 

I have posted the first page as on second glance it states this is my credit agreement.

 

 

Thanks

Alamand

 

Just in case you didn't know, this is what HBOS send in reply to almost all s78 requests. It has the same wording no matter when an agreement might have been dated. The interest rates often seem to be random. I've had three, all with differing rates - for one account

[alamand]

Hi Rosie

 

This was there response to my CPR request. Just this and the application form, nothing else.

 

They only sent the application form in response to my CCArequest.

[alamand]

Hi guys

 

I have just received the acknowledgment of my defence.

 

Will have to wait and see what their next move is.

 

Big thanks to everyone for all your help so far

 

Alamand