MTB v Halifax

[alamand]

Hi

 

I think the charges add up to about £300.

 

I did SAR them when I CCA'd them.

 

So I havn't claimed them as I am trying to negotiate a full and final settlement.

 

The debt is £6k

 

Thanks Aviator

[ukaviator]

Ok,

 

The Agreement maybe enforcable, although it says Application Form across the top, it has pretty much everything else, Apr, cancellation rights, signatures etc, the judge could decide that if it went to court.

 

You should try and negotiate settlement with the charges refunded to the account with at least 8% interest on top of each one. Compounded interest at the rate they have charged you if you wanted to try for that.

 

You should also do an income and expenditure spreadsheet to show the court what you can afford to pay, and make an offer of payment to the claimant. The judge won't make you pay more than you can afford.

 

When you do this income and expenditure spreadsheet, list everything down, including how much you are having to pay other creditors.

 

I will be around for a while this morning if you have any questions.

[alamand]

Thanks Aviator

 

The defence has to be posted today, I have amended everything and its all ready for posting.

 

I know the application form is most probably enforceable now, so as Halifax have failed to respond to my cpr request, Martin and Steven have amended my defence for me and as they havn't responded, I should be able to amend my defence later.

 

I am also sending Halifax a settlement offer, so Iwil see what comes of that.

 

I am prepared that I will most probably lose in court, but at least the interest and charges will stop and then I will go for the charges.

 

Thanks

Alamand

[ukaviator]

You should write into your defence that the charges plus interest charged are £xxx.xx, and that you are disputing the amount. This way the court could make an adjustment to the figure there and then. Will save you a headache later trying to get the charges back.

 

Also write into the defence, if you have had, any Harrasment phone calls etc

[alamand]

Thanks Aviator

 

Will do

 

Alamand

[alamand]

Hi guys

 

Just been to PO and posted next day delivery £13.20 for 2 letters (that is robbery).

 

You wont believe what was waiting for me when I got back.

Halifax's response.

 

This is it

 

 

They also put in the application form and their current T & C'S.

 

The t&c's state APR 18.9%, but on the application form it is 28.7%.

 

It also says if I am unhappy with their response I can frefer it to the FOS.

 

Now shouldnt they have done all this before they put me in court.

I did send them at least 3 letters saying the account was in dispute, and they never sent me their complaints procedure, only now when they have put us in court.

 

As you can see, they say they dont have to send an affidavit ( guess that means default notice etc)

 

Any ideas guys

 

It seems to me that Halifax have done things correctly.

 

Alamand

[alamand]

SORRY

 

Meant to say Halifax have not done things correctly

 

Alamand

[steven4064]

Can you post the application form and T&Cs (personal info removed of course)

[alamand]

Hi Steven

 

The application form is the same one that I posted in post 1 but with their sisniture on. They cut it off on the first one.

 

The T & C's are 8 pages long. Do you still want me to post them up

 

Alamand

[alamand]

Hi Steven

 

This is the second page of the application form, the first page is exactly the same

 

 

Now if you look at the top where I have removed the account no (just under visa cente dunfermerline)

 

That account no differs from the account no that appears at the very bottom of the page.( its at the very bottom after the no 24) This top no has been stamped on later.The bottom one is the original no I think.

 

So there are 2 different account no's.

 

I have no proof if the account no has been changed as we took the card out in 1990 and i have no paperwork from that far back.

 

Thanks

Alamand

[citizenB]

I am actually surprised they have managed to find even an application from from that far back.. They dont seem to be able to find my OH's from 1999 !!.

 

There seems to be something really screwed up over the APR and it would certainly appear as if they havent followed procedures.

 

What exactly is this letter in response to?. Your original CCA or the CPR for the court?

 

And yes.. £13.60 is daylight robbery... However, I get the feeling you may have been charged £2.00 extra for each of those letters to be delivered by tomorrow .. yes!!!.

[alamand]

Hi Citizen

 

Just looked at all paper work I have got and received from Halifax.

 

The 2 account numbers on the application form, one ends 29 the other ends 57, is not the same as the agreement we are being taken to court on, that ends 49.

 

So the application form they have sent is not for the one we are being taken to court with.

 

Alamand

 

Yes they did charge extra £2 for Saturday delivery.

[alamand]

It must be the CPR, as I cca'd them last year and they sent the application form.

I havn't sent them anything else.

 

Alamand

[steven4064]

Don't post the 8 pages - is there one which could possibly be the reverse side of the application form?

[alamand]

Hi Steven

 

No.

 

They are printed on A4 size paper, front and back.

 

There are not 1990 t&c's because I have just read the

"credit card repayments Cover. [tick box].I understand Iam purchasing the product ticked above on credit provided by you and that the terms relating to credit for the products can be found in conditions 1 - 4 in this agreement "

I my application form it doesnt mention Credit care until condition 12.

 

I have posted the first page as on second glance it states this is my credit agreement.

 

 

Thanks

Alamand

[alamand]

Hi guys

 

It seems the application form is now wrong because they havn't put the correct account no on.(my thinking, please advise if wrong)

So I guess the defence I sent today was correct.

 

After reading in the legal issues, I think I now have to wait for Halifax to confirm they want to proceed and the case will be sent to my local court, and an allocation questionairre sent.

Is that when I apply to amend the defence, I dont think it was very clear when to apply to amend (maybe me though)?

 

They havnt sent a copy of default notice or anything else they want to rely on, they have said they don't need to. They sent another copy of application form and what looks like current t&c's (not 1990) and how to complain to the FOS. (I cannot believe that I missed the account numbers were different)

 

My only worry with court, is that it is for £6k and Halifax might push for fast track, I think that happened to Spiritgirl.

 

I did send a letter to Halifax today reguarding their lack of response to CPR request and their refusal of previous f&f settlement offer and that the offer still stands. (If I had spotted the wrong account numbers I would have offered less)

 

My thinking is, would it be best to try and get Halifax to accept the offer, or once it gets transferred to my court, is it too late, and should I tell Halifax that I have spotted that the account numbers are wrong, which might persuade them to accept, but on the other hand it could give them time to come up with an explanation in court.

 

Or should I take my chance in Court.

 

Alamand

[FANTASY CHARGES]

I FOUND THIS THREAD WHILST GOOGLING

 

concerning that default notice section 88 of the consumer credit act 1974 APPLIES

 

 

88

.—(1) The default notice must be in the prescribed form

and specify—

(a) the nature of the alleged breach;

52

(b) if the breach is capable of remedy, what action is required to remedy it

and the date before which that action is to be taken;

© if the breach is not capable of remedy, the sum (if any) required to be

paid as compensation for the breach, and the date before which it is to be paid.

(2) A date specified under subsection (1) must not be less than seven days after the date of service of the default notice, and the creditor or owner shall not take action

such as is mentioned in section 87(1) before the date so specified or (if no requirement

is made under subsection ( 1)) before those seven days have elapsed.

(3) The default notice must not treat as a breach failure to comply with a provision of

the agreement which becomes Operative only on breach of some other provision, but

i£ the breach of that other provision is not duly remedied or compensation demanded

under subsection (I) is not duly paid, or (where no requirement is made under

subsection ~1)) if the seven days mentioned in subsection (2) have elapsed, the

creditor or owner may treat the failure as a breach and section 87(1) shall not apply to

it.

(4) The default notice must contain information in the prescribed terms about the

consequences of failure to comply with it.

(5) A default notice making a requirement under subsection (1) may include a

provision for the taking of action such as is mentioned in section 87(1) at any time

after the restriction imposed by subsection (2) will cease, together with a statement

that the provision will be ineffective if the breach is duly remedied or the

compensation duly paid.

==============================

 

STRICTLY SPEAKING THE DEFAULT NOTICE should have said ........within 7 days of the date of service ( which means 7 days after it drops through your letterbox---- that is why you must always keep envelopes)

 

now just an idea when you applied the creditor was halifax building society which became halifax plc on flotation then the halifax got taken over so we might have some mileage in this meaning ASSiGNATION ---- i will try and get the cavalry to look at this thread for you !!!!!

 

[alamand]

Thanks Fantasy

 

Not heard of that .I thought Halifax was just Halifax.

 

I wonder if that is why the account numbers are different then?

 

We have had the card 18 years so cannot remember if they ever sent anything to say that the account number had changed.

 

Alamand

[alamand]

I would have thought a new agreement should have been sent with the new account number on.

[citizenB]

I would have thought a new agreement should have been sent with the new account number on.

 

I would have thought so as well Alamand.

 

 

I think you now have a little bit of breathing space until the next step, so it might be good to have a read round the legal forum and see if there is anything that you might need.

 

I dont understand what they are saying when they say they dont need to provide you with an affidavit ? Perhaps someone could explain that.

[alamand]

Me too

 

I think it might be all the documents requested under cpr.

 

I also dont understand why they said report the complaint to FOS, I thought you were supposed to do that before you were taken to court.

 

Yes it is nice not feeling panicked and rushing to make deadlines.

I now have a little time to prepare things.

 

Regards

Alamand

[citizenB]

Me too

 

I think it might be all the documents requested under cpr.

 

I also dont understand why they said report the complaint to FOS, I thought you were supposed to do that before you were taken to court.

 

Yes it is nice not feeling panicked and rushing to make deadlines.

I now have a little time to prepare things.

 

Regards

Alamand

 

I think there might be some confusion here alamand.

 

When did you send the CCA ?

When and where did you send the CPR. Was it to the address above or was it to a solicitor?

 

If that letter and the application form etc was in response to the CCA. Then you CPR has still not been replied to, therefore your defence as submitted is correct.

 

If that letter and enclosures were in response to the CCA, then it would have been their final response letter and they are obliged to tell you your next step is the FOS.

 

 

*************************************

 

I have discovered that Halifax and the Bank of Scotland are notorious for delays in sending out paperwork.

 

I CCAd Halifax and RBOS on behalf of my OH in February and I still havent received the docouments. After one of their tame solicitors sent me a "Our Client has asked us to prepare legal paperwork so pay up or else" letters. I sent them an equally threatening letter. I received 4 days later a letter from Halifax saying they had requested the document on the 30th May.. I still havent bliddy well received it. ???

 

If I were you, I would take a day off and relax

[Hopeful1]

Well, well, well! How a day can change things!! If Halifax decide to pursue this in court you have plenty going in your favour as things stand.

 

If they continue, the next step will be the allocation questionnaire. There is a sticky on the top of the legal forums that Paul has done. Within that is his recommendation for directions that includes requesting permission to be able to submit an amended defence.

 

One thing i am learning is that the court process is not a quick one, which is just as well when you have no idea what you're doing!!

[alamand]

Hi Hopeful

 

Its unbelievable.

 

I cant believe all the mistakes and blunders we have found in less than 24 hours.

 

I have gone from thinking at least 3 years behind bars, to having a fighting chance.

 

I owe big thankyou to all you guys

 

Regards

Alamand

[Hopeful1]

I have gone from thinking at least 3 years behind bars, to having a fighting chance.

 

 

It's amazing the difference knowledge makes isn't it? These people count on the likes of us not knowing anything - ya boo sucks to them

 

Keep looking around the legal forum, it's amazing the info you can pick up, as well as links to legislation etc (which i always have to ask people to translate )

 

I'm really pleased you're feeling more positive now. Obviously Steven has been on here today and i sent pms to a couple of people last night, so hopefully they'll look in over the weekend.