HSBC want signature

[jb07]

I disputed payment before I had this letter and have not sent payments since. what do I do now?

cheers xx

[Hobbie]

Remind them that the account is in legal dispute. A corporation the size of HSBC should be well aware of the Consumer Credit Act, and its responsibilities within the act.

[tiglet]

And also the OFT guidance on debt collection

[tiglet]

Oh, and I would ask to invoke their complaints procedure.

[johnnymitch]

Hi jb, as the letter they are referring to is your letter of 14th April, am I right in thinking that you didn't send them a letter like the one I gave you on an earlier post ......... suitably amended I'm sure it is what you're looking for - to hammer home to them that you know what their obligations are and to try to get through their thick skins(heads?) that they cannot take any action until the dispute is resolved.

 

Here it is again to save you looking back....... #16 is the post you want. (courtesy of Curlyben)

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/110742-bls-no-cca-but.html%23post1084460#post1143624

[jb07]

hi, yes johnnymitch I did send them that letter on 14/5/08 as you suggested, it was nearly 3 pages long,maybe they got bored of reading it!. Letters above dated 20/5/08 turned up saturday.

cheers xx

[johnnymitch]

Ah, that's fine jb - I should have known they'd be running late on things they have to think about LOL! We will await their reply with bated breath...........

[jb07]

should I send curlybens letter again johnnymitch, cause HSBCs letter is in reply to the first curlyben letter I sent?

 

Also am gonna complain to OFT etc cause they wont send me all the information requested ( S.A.R). cheers xx

[johnnymitch]

If you sent the letter 'recorded delivery' there should be proof that they have received it jb. Just ask for a response to "that letter, which they signed for on xx xxx xx (date)"

 

If you didn't send it recorded ask them for a reply to the letter which you sent on xx xxx xx , a copy of which is attached for their convenience. (And send it recorded...)

 

It won't do any harm to complain to the OFT,and let HSBC know you've done it....

[jb07]

*Update*

zilch, nothing at all, no letters no phone calls from HSBC re my S.A.R request or CCA request on credit card... 'yawn'

cheers xx

[johnnymitch]

Hi jb,

Have you sent your complaint to the OFT?

 

I'm not sure if you've already sent this letter to HSBC - Formal Complaint LBA. If you haven't it might be worth doing to reinforce your complaint to OFT

 

 

Credit Card Formal Complaint Letter Before Action

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

With reference to my previous letters, I wish to draw you attention to your company's lack of compliance with my legal request.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

 

As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law. Furthermore, if this non-compliance continues for a further month then a summary, criminal offence is committed.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* may not pass the account to a third party.

* may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

 

Yours Faithfully PS remember not to sign it........

Edited June 11, 2008 by johnnymitch
afterthought

[jb07]

thanx JM once again you helped me out with a response to HSBCs lack of communication. I hadnt sent a letter of complaint,was in the process of drafting one out,which was not as good as yours.

cheers xx

[johnnymitch]

You're welcome jb xx:)

[gdnaes]

HSBC seem to think they can just ignore the law, very annoying - I'm in a similar situation and they've just defaulted me despite not supplying a CCA.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/143343-gdnaes-hsbc-credit-card.html

[jb07]

had this off 'them' today, dam cheek I sent the £10 and they destroyed it!!

cheers xx

[bidstermeister]

Yesterday, my local HSBC wanted my signature on a hand-delivered letter in order for them to ascertain that I was who I said I was. I refused on the grounds that there was no provision in the Data Protection Act to provide one and my address was on the letter, which they had found acceptable for over 15yrs so if they had an issue with the validity of the letter - they could write.

 

They didn't ask for ID, or any other personal information - which I thought was a bit odd.

 

Edit: my thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/148113-hsbc-local-i-think.html

Edited June 13, 2008 by bidstermeister
forgot link to my thread!

[jb07]

have never been asked to supply my sign. with HSBC miind you, it has taken them since Nov 2007 to change my payment dates from 15th of every month to the 30th of every month and Ive been charged extra interest because of it, but I can deal with that myself..but dunno wot I wouldve done without JM ( especially) ,and co to help me with the rest of the stuff

cheers xx

[jb07]

Hi all,

had this yesterday off 'them', what shall I do now xx

[freakyleaky]

It looks like the usual waffle to me. I will get someone with more expeirience to take a look for you.

[gdnaes]

I had the same letter and the more I thought about it the more I agreed with HSBC.

 

There really is no point in talking to them, so I filed court papers, that was a week or so ago and I've not heard anything from the court or HSBC since then.

[jb07]

thanx for that guys, know what you mean gdnaes am getting sick of HSBC, still no response to my S.A.R. either.

Aint even got the dam card anymore they cancelled it 5yrs ago..

cheers xx

[rory32]

Send them the following

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

 

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

[freakyleaky]

Have a look at Lisas thread here. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/128305-debt-hsbc-9.html#post1579837 She has had the same thing.

[gdnaes]

That looks an awesome letter Rory, might I be allowed to use the content in my court case? Assuming that it gets that far..........

 

I am not sure what to make of HSBC, they play the we are in charge and we certify that u are wrong etc card the whole time but I start to wonder if they are incompetent or just arrogent!

[rory32]

might I be allowed to use the content in my court case? Assuming that it gets that far..........

Certainly. Use any of the information that is on the site. If you look in the legal issues forum you'll find lots of defences based on failing to provide a copy of the agreement http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/