zhanzhibar vs HFC-weightman court action **WON**

[Docman]

Hi Zhan

 

I've had a look at the documents supplied and I think these are copies of whatever the solicitor has on their files.

 

Look carefully and you can see the hole punches. Now look at the top of the first page with the 'Marbles' logo. You can just see the microfilm or other reference at the very top. This indicates the copy is from a scanned image. There is no such marking on the second page, the Terms & Conditions, indicating that this page is NOT from a scanned image. My conclusion is that the T&Cs are not the ones attached to the document you signed and indicate the solicitor, DCA or OC are being 'creative'.

 

Don't put this in your AQ, just keep it in reserve for any hearing.

[zhanzhibar]

So I think I don't need to change anything on that DRaft Order for Direction that you posted. It is applicable to me. I'll just C&P them to Word doc then

[zhanzhibar]

Thanks Docman. I thought that myself that they don't look like they come from the same source those 2 pages of my so-called application form.

[zhanzhibar]

now on the AQ itself in box G

 

 

Quote:

Please find the following attached to this allocation questionnaire;

 

1) Section G / H ** - other information

2) Draft order for directions

 

This allocation questionnaire and its attachments were sent to the claimant on **/**/2008.

Hi Paul

Do I write that last sentence in box G? Reason I ask is because in N152 & N271 it says only to send it to court:

 

 

Edited June 14, 2008 by zhanzhibar

[pt2537]

Zhan

 

Write that into box G (obviously remove the reference to "H" as thats for the N150)

 

then i always forward a photo copy of the completed AQ to the claimants as a matter of courtesy , you dont have to, its entirely up to you. you must return the original to the court

[PriorityOne]

Fantastic as always, Paul....

[zhanzhibar]

yes..i definitely agree Priority.. he is my savior.. Without his help I probably have sleepless nights & stress level go extremely high & my 2 babies will definitely suffer from it. So I really thank you Paul.

[zhanzhibar]

Okay here goes. This is what I'll post to court tomorrow ( Guaranteed delivery of coz!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anything else to add here Paul?

Edited June 14, 2008 by zhanzhibar
Take out claim numbers

[pt2537]

Nope dont think so

 

looks good to me and from memory you have an ace up your sleeve as it states on the application YOUR RIGHT TO CANCEL therefore this is a cancelable agreement, but they never supplied any cancellation notice nor did they provide from what i could see details of how to cancel were not included

 

so

 

 

s64(1) and Section 127(4) can also be used when or should i say if it gets to court

[zhanzhibar]

Hello all,

 

It's been awhile since last wrote here. I have received a couple of letters from the court & a copy of HFC AQ. Have to admit that I didn't send them a copy of my AQ that I send to court but i think I'm going to do it today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That was back in March. haven't heard fr them since. Maybe they are awaiting for my AQ. It is not compulsory to send a copy of my AQ to them now or is it? I thought it was more of a courtesy to do that which I didn't back then. But to cover every base I am going to send them a copy of the AQ via normal post or should it be guaranteed next day delivery? Don't really want to pay extra if u don't need to u see.

 

Anyway, a couple of days ago this arrived from the Coventry (court granted my request trf fr Liverpool to Coventry)

 

 

Can anybody tell me in simple english what the court letter means? Do i have to fill in another AQ after 24th?

I' m assuming that Weightman got similar letter from the court so question is what do I do now? I haven't heard from them

I understand about the "STAY" till 8th July but how do i know whether Weightman going to response to court by 24th? Should I do something as well beforethe 24th?

Any advice is appreciated

Edited June 14, 2008 by zhanzhibar
Take out claim number

[robcag]

Hi Z

 

AFAIK it is not neccessary to serve a copy of your AQ on the Claimant, I think it is usually only done as a matter of courtesy.

 

e.g. I did not do so in my ongoing battle with HFC/Restons, and conversely they did not serve a copy of their AQ on me.

 

If I was you I'd phone the court to see if this is actually required, also you could ask them if the court has served a copy of your AQ on the Claimant.

 

An interesting point from reading your post above regarding Manoj Dudrah, I think s/he's going to be a very busy person being a witness at all these hearings (same name on mine and others claims, as we've discussed before ).

 

Cheers

Rob

Edited June 5, 2008 by robcag
typo - put 'form' instead of 'from'

[pt2537]

It is not necessary at all Rob, youre quite correct, it is a matter of courtesy only so if they dont send a copy of their AQ to you they arent actually doing any wrong

[zhanzhibar]

Thanks guys. Having read your thread Rob (so thrilling:)), am wondering how far my battle with them will be.

I have now another court case (with Amex & their solicitors Brachers this time) that I have to do battle with... I think before long I'll be on a fisrt name basis with the staff at my local court:D

[zhanzhibar]

Hello all,

 

Believe it or not I just got a letter from Weightman together with my so called "agreement" (it says there it is an application form... & i thought my english is bad!!) & default notice. Here they are for you all to see:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What i am wondering is why do they need to talk to me over the phone?

They didn't actually give me my agreement just my application form & not really legible at that. What do you all suggest? Can I still go on & make a date with them at court ?

 

The other thing I just notice from the default notice is that on page 2 ofthedefault notice letter it stated the balance of £4,078.96 but they are tryiong to claim from me before court & solicitors fee £4,660.15 & never explaine where the diff of £500 come from:confused:

 

Can somebody tell me whether the default notice is correct?

 

And what is my next step?

 

Many thanks

zhan

Edited June 14, 2008 by zhanzhibar
taking out acc number & ref

[humbleman]

zhanzhibar

 

don't know if you left your reference number and account number on purposely

[pt2537]

Nope according to my maths its not as it doesnt allow 14 clear days for you to remedy the breach therefore ineffective

 

take a look at RobCAG's thread that has more info on that score

[car2403]

Ok, the first page is the application form. An application form can be enforceable as a credit agreement, but only if it contains the prescribed terms. The prescribed terms for this type of agreement is credit limit, interest rate and repayments. Unfortunately for you, these are all contained in the terms and conditions document. This will mean that the agreement will be enforceable in Court, if they can show that these T&C's are part of the same document as the application form.

 

There is an argument that the T&C's aren't part of the same document, which you could use in your defence. There is an issue with that, in that you will, effectively, be challenging them to ensure that the agreement is enforceable - the only way they can do it is to bring the original agreement to Court at the hearing. Sounds good, as they may not have the original, or an enforceable true certified copy of the original. If they don't, they can't enforce the debt. If they do, the T&C's being part of the same document as your signature, the agreement will be enforceable.

 

It's a tough call to make, so only you can decide how you want to play that.

 

As for the Default Notice, there's still some issues with that. Clearly it will contain penalty charges, so the Default amounts will be inaccurate - this could invalidate the entire Default Notice, making the Default inaccurate and therefore unlawful.

[car2403]

Nope according to my maths its not as it doesnt allow 14 clear days for you to remedy the breach therefore ineffective

 

take a look at RobCAG's thread that has more info on that score

 

I did notice that, as the Notice needs to give 14 clear days from the date of receipt. Another reason that the Notice is invalid.

[zhanzhibar]

I am confused . I think I better go & read Rob's thread properly to find out more about this default notice & how it can be invalid.

I have been re-reading all the posts in this thread to remind myself all that's been happening. I am quite sure that the application form & the T&C’s came from 2 separate documents.

What should I do now?

Am I suppose to do an amended defense & send to court?

[zhanzhibar]

Thanks HUmbleman. I didn't realise i left my acc number & ref in. Just managed to edit it now. thanks again

[PriorityOne]

The document in post #3 is exactly the same as HFC sent to me and the reason why mine was eventually flogged out to Cabot, rather than see any attempt to go through the courts.

 

I cannot see how this can be enforceable... it is clearly marked "application" and looks like a document retrieved from microfiche anyway (which was pointed out to HFC at the time, in my case). IMO, the only reason they are pursuing this is because it was already with Weightmans when you began disputing it Zhan.... whereas mine was still with HFC.

 

A pain in the ass.... and a complete waste of your time and their money.

[zhanzhibar]

Thanks P1. Feel much better reading your post & made me decidethat I do not want to settle or talk to them on the phone.

Sorry I have to ask but what is Cabot? I did see it somewhere in this website but haven't got the time to check it out.

Since I'm back at work after maternity & taking care of 2 under 3's at the same time, time is so limited to handle my debt problem. That's why i think this forum is a godsend and I do appreciate the help i get from all the people here.

 

Wondering if anybody can tell me whether I am supposed to do something before the 24th June & send to court or just wait for a letter from the court?

[robcag]

.....

 

Sorry I have to ask but what is Cabot? I did see it somewhere in this website but haven't got the time to check it out.

 

......

 

Hi zhan

 

Cabot is yet another of the many common or garden DCAs. At first glance they appear to be nice and friendly and super efficient at sending a series of apologetic letters (for not complying in a timely fashion to CCA requests for example), but beware as they will bite you on the bum if you aren't careful.

 

Cheers

Rob

[zhanzhibar]

Hello all,

 

Believe it or not I just got a letter from Weightman together with my so called "agreement" (it says there it is an application form... & i thought my english is bad!!) & default notice. Here they are for you all to see:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What i am wondering is why do they need to talk to me over the phone?

They didn't actually give me my agreement just my application form & not really legible at that. What do you all suggest? Can I still go on & make a date with them at court ?

 

The other thing I just notice from the default notice is that on page 2 ofthedefault notice letter it stated the balance of £4,078.96 but they are tryiong to claim from me before court & solicitors fee £4,660.15 & never explaine where the diff of £500 come from:confused:

 

Can somebody tell me whether the default notice is correct?

 

And what is my next step?

 

Many thanks

zhan

 

 

Hi all,

 

Just going through things again in this thread & all my correspondence with HFC & guess what I found. ...The original default notice that was sent to me last year ...here it is :

 

 

Now then, can anybody spot the difference between the original default notice HFC sent me last year & the "copy" that Weightman send me in earlier post? Yep.. u guess it. The date is different .....so what does this mean? Can they really fudge the default notice letter? I just cannot believe they could do that. Can I not bring this up in my amended defense?

Edited June 14, 2008 by zhanzhibar

[car2403]

Hi all,

Now then, can anybody spot the difference between the original default notice HFC sent me last year & the "copy" that Weightman send me in earlier post? Yep.. u guess it. The date is different .....so what does this mean? Can they really fudge the default notice letter? I just cannot believe they could do that. Can I not bring this up in my amended defense?

 

Standard process with HFC, Z...

 

Exactly the same thing happened to me - in fact, they sent me several "original" copies of the Default Notice. When I queried it, here's what they said to me;

 

Our Client does not store copies of Default Notices. If a “copy” is required at a later stage this must be reconstituted using the information on our Client’s system. It seems from what you say that a simple mistake has been made when completing the address and the dates

 

This is exactly the same experience that other members in the same position have been through.

 

IMHO, they can't rely on anything that you can undermine as not being a true certified copy of the original. If they do, you can easily call it's accuracy in to account.

 

I also have a PM to send you.