zhanzhibar vs HFC-weightman court action **WON**

[Docman]

Just so we know who Phoenix are...

 

Phoenix.pdf

[zhanzhibar]

Hi all

 

I have just downloaded AQ N150 from the website http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n150.pdf. I have to fill this in tonight to send tomorrow so that the court received on Tuesday as per Order dated 27th may ( somewhere in earlier post above & in post #66). Problem is this N150 looks a bit different than the one I fill in back in March. It looks like they have updated it in April. Has anybody else got filled in similar form or can somebody guide me in fillig in this form, pls?

[caro]

The template in the library has been updated to reflect the changes. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html#post90321

[zhanzhibar]

Thanx Caro

[zhanzhibar]

Hi All,

 

No wonder the N150 form I download is not the same as the one i filled in back in march coz that one is the N149 form. I got it right in the end ..phew. For you guys info this is what i wrote in section G-other info.

This time i did sent a copy to weightmann, just 1st class post.

Not sure what happen next really. Is this just another wait & see period I wonder?

[zhanzhibar]

Well.. today I have received which i think is quite stroppy letter from Weightman. Here it is for all of you to see:

Can anybody give me suggestions as to what to say in my letter to them since they await my correspondence?

[zhanzhibar]

Just thought I add thatthat letter have just increased my blood pressure sky high & I am really p*** off with them now:mad:...

[zhanzhibar]

Ok Zhan,

 

that document is not enforceable in my opinion, it fails to contain the prescribed terms as required by schedule 6 of the Agreements regulations

 

the second thing that jumps out at me is the fact its not clearly easily legible and that makes it non compliant with the Consumer Credit Copy Docs Regs as a side issue

 

now turning our attention to the Terms and conditions, well they are not much help, how do we know they are even related to the application form? how do we know they are the T&Cs that came from the time that the agreement was signed?

 

the biggest problem however, is that you need to put your arguement forward in court as if you dont im sure the solicitor from HFC will be able to convince the judge that the agreement complies

 

regards

paul

 

I was reading back in all the posts on this thread & am wondering whether I should put what Paul said in post 13# above in my correspondence to them or I should wait till this go to court & just tell them since receiving that letter I will no longer interested in settling? Really not sure waht to do now.

[zhanzhibar]

Help pls with anyone... really appreciate any suggestion given.. thanks in advance

[caro]

I can't help wondering how they can amend the claimants details. If the claimant is wrong, surely there is no claim and the case should be struck out.

 

I've reported your post and hope someone more knowledgeable will reply soon.

[zhanzhibar]

Thanks Caro. really appreciate it

[zhanzhibar]

Help any one pls... really apprecaite it if somebody could give me suggestion.

I am now not sure what to say to weightman in reply to their letter above:confused:

Also, have I done sthg wrong in replying to the Court Order made on the 27th by sending an AQ?:o

 

pls..would really aprreciate any advice. Thx

[caro]

You've done exactly as the court ordered so you were absolutely right to send in the AQ. You've asked for the case to be dismissed and now it's up to the judge to decide if you have a case to answer. If the debt has been assigned to Phoenix then as I see it Weightmans cannot bring claim against you and the case should be dismissed as you have asked on the AQ.

 

Weightmans are trying to make you cave in before the case is dismissed and they lose any chance of getting the money from you. Hold your nerve and don't let them worry you.

 

It'll take a while for the judge to look at your AQ and Weightmans. You could just write and acknowledge receipt of their letter but point out that as you do not acknowledge a debt to Weightmans, there is nothing to negotiate. You have made your view clear to both them and the court.

 

See what others think of this advice first. Their's plenty of time to consider your options.

[car2403]

They need to apply to the Court to change the Claimant details - if the debt has been assigned, Weightmans won't be able to bring/continue with the claim, as that will fall to the new owner of the debt.

 

In reality, the Judge probably will allow them to amend the claim details. There is no prejudice caused by changing the Claimant details, at this stage, IMHO.

 

Having said that, you will get the chance to object to the order allowing them to amend the claim. I just can't see what arguments you can use against allowing that to happen.

 

In either case, it does seem you have a complete defence against the claim, so why delay the proceedings by objecting to the change in claimant details anyway?

 

It's interesting that they've sold the debt on - it seems Phoenix may attempt to provoke a similar "settle before Court" discussion, as they must assume they are purchasing an enforceable debt. It could well be worth writing to Phoenix to outline your Defence, (in reality, they should have already been informed of it by Weightmans) but I would take great pride in sending them another copy, just for information, if I were you. You may be surprised at the result when they return the debt to the original owner and they then decide to discontinue the claim, or you go on to successfully defend it anyway.

[zhanzhibar]

Thanks Caro & Thanks Chris for replying

 

Having said that, you will get the chance to object to the order allowing them to amend the claim. Just out of curiosity what will happen if i were to object to this order? I just can't see what arguments you can use against allowing that to happen. Another one out of curiosity, can i give the argument that until they can supply with me a copy of executed agreement they couldn't trf my alleged debt? Just wondering.

 

In either case, it does seem you have a complete defence against the claim, so why delay the proceedings by objecting to the change in claimant details anyway? I can understand your point here too & after having support from this forum, i don't mind at all going to court but can I not stop it before it get to proceeding by objecting the change in claimant. Again, this is just pure curiosity & a what-if scenario:)

 

It's interesting that they've sold the debt on - it seems Phoenix may attempt to provoke a similar "settle before Court" discussion, as they must assume they are purchasing an enforceable debt. It could well be worth writing to Phoenix to outline your Defence, (in reality, they should have already been informed of it by Weightmans) Again this is pure curiosity, do you think they are one & same company, this Phoenix & Weightmann. but I would take great pride in sending them another copy, just for information, if I were you. You may be surprised at the result when they return the debt to the original owner and they then decide to discontinue the claim, or you go on to successfully defend it anyway.

 

I think i might just do that. Write a letter acknowledging receipt (I am so tempted to tell them all the points that Paul said in the earlier posts (which i think is already in the defense)! but i think i save it till court day:D) & also send them a copy of my defense but as you say chris, surely Phoenix must have a copy by now.

[Docman]

IMHO you could object to the chnage of name. Whilst the court has power to amend the claimants, surely this is a power to correct mistakes, not substitue different claimant's.

 

What Weightman's are proposing is to put a new claimant forward without proving that the assignment is valid. Further don't let the judge be fooled by the 'LTD' in Phoenix's name. The letters 'sarl' at the end mean that Phoenix is a private copmany incorporated in Luxembourg. The Grand Duchy has quite onerous secreacy laws when it comes to financial matters. Certainly, you won't be able to easily check who is behind Phoenix. You are therefore at a disadvantage by this late change as you do not know who you are dealing with. Certainly not the party who you (alledgedly) entered into a credit agreement with! At the very least, the judge should require Phoenix to prove their ability of the claim.

 

I suggest you might like to write back to Weightman's saying a further stay would not be productive. All that they have done is to produce an illegible application form, produce incomplete account statments and so cannot particularise the amount of the claim, put forward a forged DN, and now admit the claim has been brought by a different party. I would then send another letter to the court and attach copies of Weightmans letters. Hopefully, the judge will throw out their claim without a further hearing.

[caro]

If Weightman's can't produce a valid CCA, hence the debt is unenforceable, surely they cannot reassign it.

[pt2537]

If Weightman's can't produce a valid CCA, hence the debt is unenforceable, surely they cannot reassign it.

the rights to assign a debt to a third party is normally contained within the original contract much like the rights to vary terms and conditions etc

 

so i would have to agree with caro , they cant assign a debt that they cant prove

[robcag]

If Weightman's can't produce a valid CCA, hence the debt is unenforceable, surely they cannot reassign it.

 

the rights to assign a debt to a third party is normally contained within the original contract much like the rights to vary terms and conditions etc

 

so i would have to agree with caro , they cant assign a debt that they cant prove

 

Sorry to butt-in on your thread zhan, but thanks for that Caro and Paul, I think that may be useful to both Bug and myself.

 

I'm pretty sure I've read info along those lines on CAG before amongst the masses of reading I've done, but my brain doesn't remember it all.

 

Cheers

Rob

Edited June 27, 2008 by robcag
typo

[caro]

You and me both Robcag.

[robcag]

You and me both Robcag.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one then caro

 

Sorry to hi-jack, but please would you mind commenting on a question I've posed over in my own thread regarding assignment after judgement, post #363 here; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/124572-hfc-no-agreement-amended-19.html#post1586057

 

TIA

 

Cheers

Rob

[johnny131070]

Sorry to hijack thread but had the very same letter from Weightmans assigning debt to PHOENIX. I requested CCA a year ago and only got sent application form. They say i have until 3rd July to respond or they will take legal action!! I assume i just sit tight until they (if ever) come up with CCA.

[zhanzhibar]

Hi all,

 

To cut longstory short, here is what's been happening for the past 2 1/2 months to me;

 

10th July - received a reduced offer of payment letter from weightman below. I didn't bother replying

 

 

 

14th July 2008 - received General Form of Judgement or Order from the court ordering that Phoenix Recoveries UK limited be substituted for HFC in the preceeding pursuant to CPR 19.2(4). I thought they are not allowed to do that!

 

23rd August 2008 - received Notice of Allocation to the small Claims track hearing as below.

 

 

 

 

20th September 2008 - Notice of trial date recived today.

The trial will be held on the 10th November 2008. HELP!!!Problem is I have to go abroad for 3 weeks next week for a family matter & will be back in the country on the 20th Oct. Would really appreciate some help as to what I need to do to prepare for the trial as I think I need to submit everything by the 28th Oct.

 

HELP!!

 

Thanks in advance

 

Zhan

[pt2537]

well, theres nothing like being kept up-to-date on matters and having a chance to prepare for things is there:rolleyes:

[zhanzhibar]

Ironically, I just sent a letter to the court on Thursday asking that the date of hearing can be awhile after I came back from abroad.

Can anybody point me to other people/threads that have gone through the court so i could read up & prepare. I could still prep up my defense whilst abroad so would really appreciate some guidance & help.