Capquest and 12 yr old cat debt

[candide]

Please help me I've received a letter this morning and its got me worried!!

 

The letter I have received is from Cap Quest Debt Recovery and states that they have been sold a debt from Littlewoods mail order finance for the sum of around £700.

 

As I have no recollection of owing any debt or indeed having a littlewoods catalogue I phoned the Cap Quest this morning who told me the account was opened on the 8th August 1996 and that if I think its fraudulant rather than my account I need to contact the police.

I am now not sure if I did ever have this account or not as it was 12 years ago, However I have been at my current address for the last 9 years and this is the first contact I have had regarding this debt from either Littlewoods or cap quest.

I know that I would not had knowingly not paid any money owing to anyone.

 

Any advice on what I shoul do will be very welcome.

Thank you !!!

[Michael Browne]

Send this letter:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

IMPORTANT DO NOT IGNORE - LITIGATION ADVICE

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

In addition, we would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 “an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.”

 

We would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that “it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period”.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

[slc79]

Hi. I also have similar problem. Have a look at factsheets and template letters on National Debtline. May be of some help.

 

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice

 

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/temp/2821_52501.pdf

 

I've sent a thread to forum - Inside DCA - on this site. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/134506-inside-dca-9.html#post1426876

[maroondevo52]

Hi, candide.

 

Just to add to Michaels advice,

 

Never speak to these people on the phone.

( They'll talk you into selling your Granny)

 

And don't worry, they are at the Ham.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[slc79]

Hi, other bits of info I've collected in last couple of weeks.

 

Send any letters Recorded Delivery. Plus never talk to DCA unless recording call. Also, do not sign letters, just print your name.

 

If anyone can respond my thread, would be muchly appreciated. to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/134506-inside-dca-9.html#post1426876

[candide]

Michael, Maroondevo52 and Slc79, thank you ever so much for your help, having seen this advice I feel a bit less worried than I did yesterday and its good to see that the two suggested letters agree with each other. I see that Michaels letter combines the fact that the debt (if there is actually a debt) is over 6 years old also.

 

Having calmed down a bit, I have looked at the letter again and see that it is 'a letter informing me that Cap Quest have bought the debt' and their aim is to ensure a suitable payment plan is agreed and maintained' - aren't they nice!

It has been sent by a person within their Debt Purchase Department - Should I send a copy of Michaels letter directly to this person or should I just send a Dear sir/madam letter to the company?

 

Sorry if this question seems daft or insignificant, it's just I didn't know anything at all about htis type of thing until yesterday!

 

Having had to do some research, its so reassuring that there are people like you guys willing to help, I would have not had a clue if these letter templates had not been supplied to me.

Thanks again.

[jowalshy]

I think that if it is a specific persons name and department that have written to you, it would be best to send your letter to that person.

 

Oh and don't forget to send it recoded delivery.

[candide]

Thanks for the advice, I will address it to the specific person and I will send it recorded delivery.

Thanks again!

[johnharding]

Please help me I've received a letter this morning and its got me worried!!

 

The letter I have received is from Cap Quest Debt Recovery and states that they have been sold a debt from Littlewoods mail order finance for the sum of around £700.

 

As I have no recollection of owing any debt or indeed having a littlewoods catalogue I phoned the Cap Quest this morning who told me the account was opened on the 8th August 1996 and that if I think its fraudulant rather than my account I need to contact the police.

I am now not sure if I did ever have this account or not as it was 12 years ago, However I have been at my current address for the last 9 years and this is the first contact I have had regarding this debt from either Littlewoods or cap quest.

I know that I would not had knowingly not paid any money owing to anyone.

 

Any advice on what I shoul do will be very welcome.

Thank you !!!

 

Candide,

 

My understanding is that after 12 years a debt cant be enforced. You should write to Littlewoods and CapQuest and place the account in legal dispute (via recorded delivery/special delivery). Write to Littlewoods and make a CCA Request (it will cost you £1) but they will have to supply you with the Credit agreement. If they can't, or it isn't upto scratch then it is completely non-enforceable.

 

Anyway, Credit Reference Agencies believe they have the right to hold onto your data from six years of default. You are well over that, so if Littlewoods can't prove the debt is enforceable then you are in the clear.

 

But, this is purely my inexperience opinion. The Penalty Charges forum (Penalty Charges Forum - Powered by vBulletin) has oodles of experience in these matters. See Nasty surprise from Littlewoods after 5 Years!! - Penalty Charges Forum for someone who has a similar issue (although only five years not 12!)

[nish40]

Hi guys, i used to work for a commercial debt recovery company (not a nasty one lol), and as long as the law hasnt changed in the last 4 yrs, im afraid there is a way they can still enforce this debt. First you need to find out wether since the debt first occured, when the last course of action was taken. The reason i ask this, is although the debt is very old, the 6 yr rule was a bit sketchy, as if the company involved keeps on top of the debt they can still enforce it. It only becomes unenforcable if the debt lays dormant for 6 or more years without any forther action or updates done on it. IE, the debt begins on jan 1st 1990, and on dec 31st 1995, they get a fresh judgement for non payment, then the debt has another 6 yrs to ride, on 30th dec 2000, they may appoint another debt collector. Please check that on your credit file, the last update was more than 6 yrs, as they may just keep updating it. I may be wrong, but thats what practice we had to use in work

[JonCris]

nish I'm sorry but you are wrong. There is NO ambiguity about the Limitations Act.

 

For a time barred debt to be enforceable there has to be a written admission by the debtor that they owe the money. That is irrespective of any actions, other than obtaining a 1st CCJ, which the OC or DCA might have taken in the intervening years

 

Not sure what you mean by 'fresh' Judgment but if you mean a 2nd CCJ for the same debt then again your mistaken as this would be considered an abuse of process.

 

A 2nd CCJ could only be obtained on the same debt if the creditor failed to disclose the earlier one & if discovered that could result in the creditor being in deep doo doo with the court

 

Furthermore the debtor upon discovering this could easily have the 2nd CCJ set aside.

 

On the other-hand if your suggesting that a CCJ if issued prior to limitation means the debt is reactivated for limitation purposes then you may be correct but again if the debtor is unaware of the CCJ & can prove it they can still apply to have it set aside followed by asking the court that the claim now be disallowed because of limitation

[BrandiBroke]

Candide, Capquest did exactly the same thing to me, not long before Christmas. In fact I wouldn't be at all surprised if your letter is the same as mine but for the personal details I CCA'd them as I didn't know what else to do, I had no idea I had such a debt existing lol then I found this place. They wrote back giving me the usual 'account on hold for 28 days' baloney, that was received on 17th December and I haven't heard anything since.

 

In my opinion you have absolutely nothing to worry about

[johnharding]

nish I'm sorry but you are wrong. There is NO ambiguity about the Limitations Act.

 

For a time barred debt to be enforceable there has to be a written admission by the debtor that they owe the money. That is irrespective of any actions, other than obtaining a 1st CCJ, which the OC or DCA might have taken in the intervening years

 

Not sure what you mean by 'fresh' Judgment but if you mean a 2nd CCJ for the same debt then again your mistaken as this would be considered an abuse of process.

 

A 2nd CCJ could only be obtained on the same debt if the creditor failed to disclose the earlier one & if discovered that could result in the creditor being in deep doo doo with the court

 

Furthermore the debtor upon discovering this could easily have the 2nd CCJ set aside.

 

On the other-hand if your suggesting that a CCJ if issued prior to limitation means the debt is reactivated for limitation purposes then you may be correct but again if the debtor is unaware of the CCJ & can prove it they can still apply to have it set aside followed by asking the court that the claim now be disallowed because of limitation

 

The six year limitation, as I understand it, is enshrined in law. There was a case recently where Aspinalls gamblers club and a rich businessman were contesting a case. The businessman bet £2m on the night in cheques but disputed something and cancelled the cheques. The club let him keep gambling for three days short of the six years and then issued court proceedings.

 

See Punter challenges £2m debt claiming casino broke rules | UK news | The Guardian for some details of the case.

 

Unless Littlewoods have been active then the debt isn't enforceable and I am sure it is against some industry guidelines to try and claim money from an unenforceable contract. The Financial Ombundsman might be able to help here.

[JonCris]

The problem is that the court has to be made aware that limitation applies before issuing a CCJ something which the creditor is hardly going to disclose

[candide]

Hi Guys

 

Glad to see all the great advice keeps on coming, although it has now left me a bit confused (which isn't very hard with situations like this!) and with more questions.

 

I have today sent off a copy of the letter Michael Browne supplied earlier in the thread, recorded delivery.

 

Should I now wait for a response to this letter, or should I write again straight away 'placing the account in legal dispute' as suggested?

If I should do this now, is there a letter template for this also? (otherwise I haven't a clue!)

Also should I write to Littlewoods Mail Finance as well as Cap Quest if Cap Quest has stated that they have 'bought the debt'?

I have no address for Littlewoods Mail Finance and am not having much luck finding their address on google.

 

Also, Should I make a CCA request now, or wait for the reponse from my initial letter?

If I make a CCA request should it be to Littlewoods or Cap Quest?

 

Sorry for so many questions,.

I really appreciate the advice and also the support that I am getting here!

[BrandiBroke]

The letter you sent today should (if I am correct?) place the account in dispute. All you need to do now is sit and wait, nothing more. Also worth remembering is your dealings are all with Crapquest, not Littlewoods seeing as they claim to have bought the debt

 

Just sit tight or, even better, go have a nice glass of wine/cup of tea and forget all about them. It's up to them to prove you owe the money, not the other way round.

[johnharding]

Hi Guys

 

Glad to see all the great advice keeps on coming, although it has now left me a bit confused (which isn't very hard with situations like this!) and with more questions.

 

I have today sent off a copy of the letter Michael Browne supplied earlier in the thread, recorded delivery.

 

Should I now wait for a response to this letter, or should I write again straight away 'placing the account in legal dispute' as suggested?

If I should do this now, is there a letter template for this also? (otherwise I haven't a clue!)

Also should I write to Littlewoods Mail Finance as well as Cap Quest if Cap Quest has stated that they have 'bought the debt'?

I have no address for Littlewoods Mail Finance and am not having much luck finding their address on google.

 

Also, Should I make a CCA request now, or wait for the reponse from my initial letter?

If I make a CCA request should it be to Littlewoods or Cap Quest?

 

Sorry for so many questions,.

I really appreciate the advice and also the support that I am getting here!

 

 

Adapting sample letters from the PenaltyChargesForum, I would use something like:

 

 

I am writing to inform you that i am putting this account in legal dispute until i can assess the value of the balance mentioned on your letter dated xx/xx/xx ( date of last letter mentioning amount).

 

you will receive a subject access request under the data protection act, with the statutory maximum fee of £10. please note that the postal order will clearly states that it is for the SAR fee, and not to be credited to the account.

 

Should you wish to show your willingness to resolve the matter promptly, you will make sure that i receive the requested documents within the 40 days relevant period under Data Protection legislation.

 

I also request that all further communication are made in writing.

 

 

 

 

Then also send a CCA Request:

 

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will communicate further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true and signed copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for rolling sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number *******

 

2. If this debt has been sold to you (eg for a debt collection agency), please supply me with a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

4. Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

5. As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

6. Furthermore you are reminded that under s78 sub section (6) whilst the default continues you are not entitled to enforce the agreement in law.

 

 

 

There is more information out there, but basically at this stage you want to put the account in dispute, file a DPA request (£10) and file a CCA request (£1).

 

If the DCA starts harassing you then that can be dealt with also! Wait until all that lot comes back and then you will have a better idea of what you need to do!

[johnharding]

The problem is that the court has to be made aware that limitation applies before issuing a CCJ something which the creditor is hardly going to disclose

 

That is true. But then if someone was going to court and use that defence then the creditors would have to disprove it, which with a 12-year-old debt is going to be hard.

 

If you have ever read Danny King's School for Scumbags (highly recommended), it's the Gafin Principle at work. Every act has to be "worth it". If the supposed debtor is making noises about it being statue-barred and they don't have/can't find a valid Credit Agreement then few companies would be willing to spend money to go to court.

 

Pity I'm not a judge really. That case wouldn't last two minutes in my courtroom

[johnharding]

Candide, Capquest did exactly the same thing to me, not long before Christmas. In fact I wouldn't be at all surprised if your letter is the same as mine but for the personal details I CCA'd them as I didn't know what else to do, I had no idea I had such a debt existing lol then I found this place. They wrote back giving me the usual 'account on hold for 28 days' baloney, that was received on 17th December and I haven't heard anything since.

 

In my opinion you have absolutely nothing to worry about

 

 

I would get them to clarify all is done and dusted. Something along the lines of "as you have not communicated with me for over three months, and well outside the 28 days promised, I believe that there is no valid Credit Agreement for this account and any supposed debts are no longer enforceable....etc"

 

You wouldn't want another letter in a few years time!

[BrandiBroke]

I would get them to clarify all is done and dusted. Something along the lines of "as you have not communicated with me for over three months, and well outside the 28 days promised, I believe that there is no valid Credit Agreement for this account and any supposed debts are no longer enforceable....etc"

 

You wouldn't want another letter in a few years time!

 

Thanks, that's worth considering. I am never inclined to do any more than is necessary but in this case it wouldn't be a bad idea to get some closure in writing to file away

[johnharding]

Thanks, that's worth considering. I am never inclined to do any more than is necessary but in this case it wouldn't be a bad idea to get some closure in writing to file away

 

 

I do have a letter for use I found for chasing up a CCA. I will try and dig it out and send it PM. Personally I like to get companies to admit they c*cked it right up. I hate the "gesture of goodwill" letter because normally there is bugger all goodwill from this side of the exchange! ;-)

[BrandiBroke]

I do have a letter for use I found for chasing up a CCA. I will try and dig it out and send it PM. Personally I like to get companies to admit they c*cked it right up. I hate the "gesture of goodwill" letter because normally there is bugger all goodwill from this side of the exchange! ;-)

 

Thank you, that would be very kind of you

[candide]

I Dont believe it. Yesterday I get another letter off of these same people, Exactly the same letter but another Debt! (Totally different to the first)

 

I am fuming! and confused!

I am not someone who has ever chalked up any debts so I am totally bewildered with this.

 

Oh well, another letter exactly the same as the one I have previously sent off for the first alleged debt I suppose!

[johnharding]

I Dont believe it. Yesterday I get another letter off of these same people, Exactly the same letter but another Debt! (Totally different to the first)

 

I am fuming! and confused!

I am not someone who has ever chalked up any debts so I am totally bewildered with this.

 

Oh well, another letter exactly the same as the one I have previously sent off for the first alleged debt I suppose!

 

SImple. Same process as before:

 

1. Put the account in dispute

2. Send a CCA request.

 

I believe you already have a DPA SAR in the pipeline so you should be covered with that.

 

Copy in both DCA and Catalogue people.

[JonCris]

Hang on we might be losing sight of the main issue here.

 

The OP has stated that they no nothing of these 2 debts therefore it's perfectly possible that someone has used their details to obtain credit in their name, catalogues being favourite of the ID thieves

 

My advice is to obtain your credit report as there almost certainly will be defaults now registered against you which you will need to have removed & second the information will give you some idea as to when & with whom these loans were taken out with - & if there are any more

 

It's also perfectly possible that your NOT the person they seek but they are trying it on in the hope you are & they have traced you through your previous address where these loans were entered into & are assuming you are that debtor