Being chased in Australia

[andyuk2sydney]

I moved to Australia more than 3 years ago. I left behind in the UK a number of different debts (credit cards and personal loans) totalling somewhere around 30,000 GBP (I did try to set up agreements to repay this but the creditors did not want to listen - so in the end I had no option but to leave it - or so I felt at the time anyway).

 

Things have been quiet. I had a few letters at my new home in Australia from the companies and from debt collection companies in the UK, but I did not respond. I heard nothing more for quite some time, but I have now received a letter from an Australian debt collection company stating I need to pay or face legal action.

 

The debt this company is chasing is, on it's own, something I can repay fairly quickly. But I am worried about responding in case it leads to all my other debts catching up with me and not being able to pay again.

 

But I am also worried about this affecting my credit rating in Australia, as I am hoping to become a permanent resident in the next couple of years and get a mortgage.

 

Any advice much appreciated.

[kennythecelt]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

Someone should be along shortly to offer advice and assistance.

 

Good luck!!

[JonCris]

I strongly suggest you pay what's being demanded (particulary as you can afford it) because if they do take action in the OZ Courts & I'm not entirely sure, but I think it will almost certainly affect your application for permanent residency.

 

Just a thought but rather than pay the full amount & as you have the money make them an offer & see what happens

 

As they say 'a bird in the hand' etc

[Boro]

Would it not be worth while sending them a cca request to find out whether they have the right to collect and whether the original creditor has an enforceable agreement, i wouldn't (personally) pay money to just anyone without them first proving to me that they have a right to it

[Boro]

And to add to my last it may be wise to send off cca requests for all of the debts you have, if they dont comply they surely cant enforce whether doing to in Australia or here

[JonCris]

I don't think a CCA request applies in OZ & I thought you knew of this debt. Also don't you think that by sending a CCA to the OC you could be opening up a can of worms

[moneycheatingexpert]

(EDIT)

 

Okay now we've got that out of the way.

 

I can't comment on Ozzy law but I will try and get back to you this week.

 

The usual letter threatening legal action is the first approach DCA’s use.

 

They send us a scary letter and expect us to (EDIT). In the UK you know that it simply does not work. So until you get advice on DCA’s in oz treat it in the same way.

 

Stay calm. Go ex-dir today and look at the facts.

 

I’m assuming all your debts are not from the same provider, therefore there is no reason to assume that ALL your debt have caught up with you.

 

It might worth thinking how this DCA caught up with you in the first place and considering if it is possible the others could do the same.

 

A lot of international debt gets written off because of the cost of pursuing it into a foreign jurisdiction which becomes expensive and complex. The bad news is……

 

The chances are the DCA have reason to believe you are in oz and have either sold the debt on to an Ozzzy DCA or they have associated agents or offices. In either scenario its not great because it means that they will pursue you in the same way that they would here in the UK.

 

I can’t really comment further because I know nothing of the oz system.

 

(EDIT)

[dannyboy660]

 

A lot of international debt gets written off because of the cost of pursuing it into a foreign jurisdiction which becomes expensive and complex. The bad news is……

 

The chances are the DCA have reason to believe you are in oz and have either sold the debt on to an Ozzzy DCA or they have associated agents or offices. In either scenario its not great because it means that they will pursue you in the same way that they would here in the UK.

 

 

 

It depends on whether a CCJ already exists, and Australia being a Commonwealth country means a reciprocal agreement will almost certainly exist. It does for 'Crown' debts (i.e. Tax and NI etc) but I'm not too sure about unsecured debt.....probably not.

 

What usually happens is a 'foreign' court is asked to enforce an existing judgement and whether they will or not depends on the kind of relationship they have with the UK, your residential status, and to whom you pay your taxes etc. The court probably won't/can't make a judgement itself because a CCA'74 contract was signed under English law.

 

I'm sure CAG has someone with a bit of Oz experience.

[renegotiation]

Do some more googling. I was researching foreign debt for someone else a while back and found some excellent stuff on Australia! It wasn't the country I was looking for, but I read it anyway. Some guy was posting stuff who worked for an Australian DCA chasing foreign debts. I'm sure you'll get more help here anyway.

[andyuk2sydney]

Thank you all very much for your replies - please keep them coming. When I said I can afford to pay the debt that is being asked for - I didn't mean for that to sound easy - as it wouldn't be - but if that's the only debt I have to pay it would be achievable.

 

There has been some varying advice here - and hopefully in a day or so I can make an informed decision on my course of action.

 

Thanks once again to all those that have helped.

[JonCris]

As you have noticed not everyone sings from the same hymn sheet. It's one of the reasons why this site & others like it are so good - it's called informed debate (well most of the time at least):grin: :grin:

[Belaflat]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/134786-we-safe-aic-australia.html

 

 

Have a look at the above thread, some links you might find uaseful in it.

[radiobirdman]

This debt was not made in australia under australian law so there is no way they will be able to enforce it in Australia. Though it does not mean they will not try and scare you with these letters.

 

There is really nothing they can do to you. so dont worry about it.

[andyuk2sydney]

Thanks everyone. I see Radiobirdman's comment on 7th April. After receiving the first letter it was a good 4 weeks until I received a second letter (which I have just received). The first letter seemed to be far more stern than the follow up, so I am hoping that Radiobirdman is right. I am trying not to worry. Not I just wait........

 

Cheers to everyone for all the help.

[moneycheatingexpert]

My message still applies.

 

'They send us a scary letter and they expect us to (EDIT). our pants'.

 

In the UK you know that it simply does not work, Oz is no different and don't forget they have to prove it's your debt with current data protection laws tracing agents don't stand a chance.

 

Tracing agents have been under pressure over the last few years facing tighter controls over what they are allowed to do to find debtors.

 

One of the biggest blows to the industry was the Data Protection Act 1998 or as it is known by creditors and tracers alike, as ‘the debtor's charter’. Its underlying principle is that data should be obtained fairly and without deception. However, since its implementation good tracing agents who were able to trace 70 per cent of debtors found their success rate dropped significantly to below 50 per cent.

 

So let first let prove you are the same person wholeft the UK and it's your debt, believe me they don't stand a chance of doing this legimately.8)

[JonCris]

Yes & I listened to the CRA's spouting a load of **** on Money Box Live about how they 'protect' the consumer............I almost had to vomit

 

"Consumers can have a 'notice of correction' added to their file & we check with the information provider that the data is correct"

 

Yeah right 1st the NoC is only on for a limited period (28 days) then removed

 

The checking the 'data is correct' comprises of an email to their client asking if it's correct to which some snotty office junior replies, via email, yes it is.............& THAT is a far as it gets...........you say no.......they say yes.....& who do they believe.....their client of course........who are as honest as the day is long...............apparently

 

When challenged about their failure to adequately check the data they are provided with, even when it's in dispute, their reply is "we don't have the facilities to do it" ......to which the reply is.......then you should NOT be ruining peoples lives based on (bloody) hearsay you cretins

 

The really sad thing was the 'consumer' representative seemed to think a notice of correction was sufficient

 

With friends like her who needs enemies

[radiobirdman]

Andy, again there is nothing they can do except send you these letters in the hope you fold and pay them, thats it. thats as good as it gets for them.

 

They just cant take you to court in Australia for this debt, it just does not happen (search through all the forums on this site for example. you wont find anyone who it has happend to. and just think how many brits move to Aus every year).

 

this firm chasing you is prob just a Aus arm of the UK firm (debts are never really get sold overseas) so they are just trying it on.

 

It would cost a fortune for them to try and go via the aussie legal system. for what? for you to up and leave and return to the UK leaving them to start all over again?

 

forget it, let them try.

[moneycheatingexpert]

Listen to the radiobirdman. He is talking sense.

 

They haven't got a leg, but i would still question how they traced you in the first instance, data protection laws have clearly been broken as only DCA tracers can.

 

That puts them up for criminal rather than civil offences, unless you were stupid enough to tell them you moved, but i suspect they are already on thin ground. You need to address this because they have to prove 100% it is you and your debt before they can even consider court action.

 

The oz DCA is as we've said is either an associate office or have bought the debt, either way do not answer withheld numbers (fairly obviously really), might be worth going ex-dir and NEVER admit to the debt in UK.

 

There scare tactics might involve several letters threatening court action but agin they are designed to scare. Hasn't anyone told them about the Debtors Charter.

[radiobirdman]

Also i would like to add, if in fact they did have the power to take you to court in Australia, and with the amount of Brits living in Aus and moving there every year (many with debts).

 

would there not be plenty of cases on here or other sites where people have been taken to cout in Aus for UK debts and forced to pay? as you can see there are not any.

 

just does not happen.

[sequenci]

Hello there.

 

A UK granted court judgement CAN be enforced in Australia.

 

This is possible because of the Foreign Judgments (Reciprocal Enforcement) Act 1933. You would be surprised how many UK firms have counterparts down under. Whilst this sort of action may seem quite rare it would be ignorant to assume it doesn't happen.

[JonCris]

Yes seq & that's why I stated the DCA might regret trying to in OZ because of their recent ruling regarding penalty charges (assuming the debt includeds charges) ......... cos what's good for the goose could be good for the gander

[sequenci]

Hey Jon, I missed your 1st post. Sorry about that mate.

[moneycheatingexpert]

and how many cases to date?

 

I'm guessing it's around a handful and for the size of this debt especially when you consider the costs involved not including the hassle, i don't think it is a viable option for them.

 

Plus I think this is a pretty big plus here. How can the DCA be sure that this is the same person. There isn't a single legimate way that someone can not be traced to another country without lies, breach or blagging and with inside knowledge of this industry i should know

 

You are going to be okay if you follow the advice on here. DCA's are a bit like opportunist burglars, if something is too difficult they will move on.

[radiobirdman]

what he is talking about is not setup to chase credit card debts but to enforce larger corporate debts, fraud etc.

 

I would like to see a example if it has happend. just one. it does not happen to australians living in the uk with debts or brits in aus with debts, it is just to difficult to enforce and to expensive and for what? it just failing at the end of the debtor just up and leaving again to return home.

 

again as stated above. there are thousands of people going from both countries every year. there would be more (or even just one) example of it happening on this site atleast. but there are none.

[dannyboy660]

Does a CCJ exist??

 

It's a very simple concept.