Bankruptcy Petition

[sand1]

Apparently I'm in line for a BP. My partner just got his - it was delivered to him when he stuck his key in the mailbox. (I never pick up the mail!)And person delivering said I will get one as well and if he doesn't personally serve me, it will go in the local paper.( this is not good for my biz). Am I supposed to make an appt. to get served!

 

It's a business dispute and the first we'd heard of it. THe BP says that he served a Statutory Demand in November but we never received it. ( Nor was it attached to the BP.) He must have served it on the person who stuffs the mailboxes(maybe) but not to us. Who ever he gave it to ( a person is named)M - is not employed by us & we've never heard of her! If they'd sent it by post we might have received them but NEITHER of us have received a Statutory Demand. (Problem is that we've had a partnership instead of a LLP so we are personally liable- could kick selves.)

 

The hearing is 14 March. Must respond to petitioner or solicitor 7 days prior to this date.

 

According to BP there was a County Court Judgment in Worcester County Court on 8 November 2007 - we've NEVER Heard anything of this either -before or after- - and the SD was issued on 20 November 2007.

 

This is about the third time that we have NOT been notified about any County Court hearings. In a previous one, the Court in question after being very sarcastic about our mail service, later had to retract & admitted that the Court had made grievous errors. Surely, each of us should have received notification of the Court hearing on 8 November?

 

Any advice appreciated!

 

Here we go again! I sometimes wonder if I should just let them do it!

 

sand1

[tomterm8]

Hi, sand 1, first thing to do is phone the court and get copies of all paperwork.

 

What kind of debt is the BP being filed for?

 

What equity do you have?

 

Have you got any other debts? If so, can you describe them?

[sand1]

Phone the court that made the CCJ I presume. Good idea.

 

It is a printing debt. We dont have the particulars- because they weren't sent by the court and we never heard from the printer re this-. We have a small publishing co. and have often been royally screwed by poor printing/ not making deadlines, so I dont know yet what our issue was or if we just had payment problems. Just got this BP info this morning.

 

Have home equity but we are in process of selling- and I'm hoping this will happen QUICKLY so no one can get it - but majority of this goes to taxes- and I REALLY dont want ALL my equity going to debt.

 

Have loads of debts- credit card mostly & two unsecured loans - one almost paid off, other- I cant believe this but we actually bought- (are you ready?) timeshare.

 

Have healthy business but personal debt -when we were bulding it up- catching up with us big time. The last straw was when I went down badly with injury & surgical complications last year.

 

sand1

[tomterm8]

Hrm. Well, you should call the court with the bankruptcy petition, and get the paperwork from them as well at the original CCJ court.

 

There ARE available methods for the CCJ, but first it's imperative to know whether you owe the debt or not.

[sand1]

Tomterm,

We will certainly owe SOME of this debt.

 

sand1

[sand1]

Also to clarify- I'm not talking about walking away with a pile of cash.

 

The previously mentioned court action where the court apologised for "grievous omissions" resulted in a charge order on our home- which we didn't hear ANYTHING about until a notice from Land Registry. This court neglected to send us a string of court procedures that obviously transpired to bring about the charge order. So between taxes & fines when acct. failed to file on time and the charge order, we will be lucky to have lunch money when home sells. We are doing a quick sale thing only a % of real value to save time. Have court date with HMRC next month even though my acct. has been explaining everything.

 

Instead of paying a. tax b. biz creditors, I was paying credit cards that accumulated when I was laid up. WRONG, wrong wrong priorities I know now but was overwhelmed with their letters/calls/interest increases etc.

 

Frankly it's all getting a bit much.

Answering these court things, cr. cards is taking up biz time,too.

 

sand1, a fighter at heart, is fed up

[tomterm8]

sand1, what we need to know is HOW much you owe to the people making a bankruptcy petition. If, somehow, that goes under £750 OR if an installment order is made on the CCJ, they can't make you bankrupt.

[sand1]

The BP is for £14,500 which apparently includes interest & costs "associated with the CCJ" but without copy of invoices & any CCJ info dont know how much has been added.

 

What do you mean installment order on the CCJ? Is this something we would have made voluntarily had we known about this... or is it something that would have been imposed by courts.

[tomterm8]

can be done either voluntarily OR by the courts. And, frankly, SHOULD have been made by the courts.

 

Edit: I've asked sequenci, a site helper, to have a look at this thread.

[sequenci]

Hello there, my attention has been brought to this thread. I've just arrived at work and will be doing a little bit of investigating for you. I'll report back in due course.

[sequenci]

Well first we can look at the Stat Demand:

The creditor is under obligation to take reasonable steps to bring the demand to the debtor’s attention and if, practicable, personal service should take place. Where this is not possible, the creditor is allowed to serve the demand either via post or through a letterbox, but it is expected that following steps have taken place first:

• One personal visit to each of the debtor’s known residencies and places of business
  
• If it is not possible to serve the Statutory Demand during the visit(s), a letter should be sent to the debtor making her/him aware of the visit(s) have taken place and purpose of the visit(s). The letter should also state that another visit will be made for the same purpose and specify the date, time and place. At least two business days’ notice must be given. The letter should also state that if the time and place are inconvenient, the debtor should name a reasonable alternative. The letter can also state that if the debtor fails to keep the appointment, the demand will be posted/inserted through a letterbox and, if a bankruptcy petition is presented, the court will be requested to accept this as a service of demand. Copies of the letter should be sent to all known addresses of the debtor.

If the creditor presents a bankruptcy petition to the court, an affidavit has to be sworn giving details of service of the Statutory Demand. If a demand was not served personally and no written acknowledgement of service has been received from the debtor, the creditor must set out the steps it has taken to ensure the demand has been served on the debtor. If the court is not satisfied that the creditor has carried out their obligations, it can refuse to issue a petition.

 

You might be able to oppose the petition being made as you were never aware of the Statutury Demand, this might be a weak argument unless you can proof beyond any doubt you didn't receive it.

 

I guess the other option is to try and argue that you were never made aware of the court judgment and possibly have grounds for a set aside?

 

I'm going to have to do some more investigating on this one to see what I can dig up.

[42man]

What you will need is form 6.19 to oppose the bankruptcy, which needs to be in court at least 7 days before the hearing, (one copy also needs to be sent to the opposing solicitor) I have a copy of this Sand if you PM me your email address.....and as Sequenci has stated you will need an affadavit signed by a solicitor stating that you never received the statutory demand. Also if you are made bankrupt, the sale on your house may be stopped, bear in mind that the trustee appointed by the Official Receiver takes 20% as his/her fee of the total of your debts....so for example if you have £30,000 of debt the trustee will take £6,000 as their cut !!.....what are the debts on the bankruptcy relating to ?...

[sand1]

" The creditor is under obligation to take reasonable steps to bring the demand to the debtor’s attention and if, practicable, personal service should take place. Where this is not possible, the creditor is allowed to serve the demand either via post or through a letterbox, but it is expected that following steps have taken place first:

 

If it is not possible to serve the Statutory Demand during the visit(s), a letter should be sent to the debtor making her/him aware of the visit(s) have taken place and purpose of the visit(s). The letter should also state that another visit will be made for the same purpose and specify the date, time and place. At least two business days’ notice must be given. The letter should also state that if the time and place are inconvenient, the debtor should name a reasonable alternative. The letter can also state that if the debtor fails to keep the appointment, the demand will be posted/inserted through a letterbox and, if a bankruptcy petition is presented, the court will be requested to accept this as a service of demand. Copies of the letter should be sent to all known addresses of the debtor."

 

If the creditor presents a bankruptcy petition to the court, an affidavit has to be sworn giving details of service of the Statutory Demand. If a demand was not served personally and no written acknowledgement of service has been received from the debtor, the creditor must set out the steps it has taken to ensure the demand has been served on the debtor. If the court is not satisfied that the creditor has carried out their obligations, it can refuse to issue a petition.

 

You might be able to oppose the petition being made as you were never aware of the Statutury Demand, this might be a weak argument unless you can proof beyond any doubt you didn't receive it.

 

I guess the other option is to try and argue that you were never made aware of the court judgment and possibly have grounds for a set aside?

 

________________________________________________________________

Hi Sequenci,

 

Thanks for everything.

 

None of the requirements for the Statutory Demand took place. We received no letters as described above. And as they are serving TWO of us at the same address, that's TWO SDs that were never received, and two letters/notifications! No attempt was made to send to our residence. ( thank god!). All was sent to our business POBox. There is a name on there whom he has served but it's no one we know - am trying to find out if there is anyone who ever worked there with that name. If not, it must have been someone having a cigarette by the PO Box!

 

I am interested again in the court judgments.

Surely we have grounds to have that set aside if again we received NOTHING. I know that is hard to to prove- but why would we NOT show up or respond. What possibleadvantage. This is a business dispute. I am really concerned about this. My partner called the issuing court and they have the correct address and he has asked them to look into if all was sent.( The last time this happened, forms had never been sent by the court.) This means that probably there was a payment schedule about which we knew nothing.

 

By the way- we never even received a STATEMENT from these claimants. When we took our business elsewhere- they must have gone straight to court!

 

Oh- one more thinh. I havent been served the BP yet- just received a letter tellingf me where & when to show up to be served( 1 March) . So if I haven't been served yet( but know what it will be because I've seen my partner's) am I in a position to act quicly re the lack of Statutory Demand?

 

Looking forward to more advice re this.

sand1

[42man]

Sand....even if you didn't receive any Stat Demands, a judge can quite easily say well 'I don't believe you'.....this is why you will need an affadavit as the judge cannot ignore this......apart from arguing a case on these grounds, do you dispute the amounts concerned ? are there excessive penalty charges that have been added ? are these debts covered under the consumer credit act ?

[sand1]

As far as the penalty charges- I have no idea as NEITHER of us have received ANY documentation re this until the BP.

 

No it would not be a Consumer Credit Act thing I dont think as it is a bill for biz services- printing. We never received a statement from them- they just got royally miffed when we took our biz elsewhere and went straight to court. If the SD was issued on 20 November, the whole court case had to have been between Sept-November- we left them in September!

 

I'm sure there are loads of solicitors charges etc, when we apparently didnt show up at the supposed hearings!

 

Why would anyone bankrupt a business? How would they expect to get paid-the idiots!

 

Thanks for form by the way!

 

sand1

[ananya]

Subbing to the thread

 

I don't have any useful advice as I know nothing about bancruptcy but just wanted to wish you good luck sand1.

[sand1]

OK The latest. We had the Worcester County Court send copies of Claim & Judgment.

 

Only two correspondences: Claim form which seems to be 18 September & a Judgment in Default of 20 November when we didn't reply. I have just sent Court Manager a letter asking him/her to ensure that these were actually posted.

 

Claim refers to full details sent to client by claimant. Well no- we dont have them. No statements/no correspondence whatsoever. Until our acct. returns all books, 2007 bank stmts, etc we dont know the validity of the claim & cant figure out.

 

Partner anxious to request judgment be set aside. ( Too late?)

 

In the meantime I've asked place where we get business post who person is who was served the statutory demand (s).

 

Apoplectic sand1

[tomterm8]

OK The latest. We had the Worcester County Court send copies of Claim & Judgment.

 

Only two correspondences: Claim form which seems to be 18 September & a Judgment in Default of 20 November when we didn't reply. I have just sent Court Manager a letter asking him/her to ensure that these were actually posted.

 

Claim refers to full details sent to client by claimant. Well no- we dont have them. No statements/no correspondence whatsoever. Until our acct. returns all books, 2007 bank stmts, etc we dont know the validity of the claim & cant figure out.

 

Partner anxious to request judgment be set aside. ( Too late?)

Nah, it's not too late... can you post the particulars of claim?

In the meantime I've asked place where we get business post who person is who was served the statutory demand (s).

 

Apoplectic sand1

has the court sent you details of the bankruptcy petition?

[sand1]

Hi Tomterm

 

Will post both.

 

I havent yet received MY BP but my Biz partner/ husband has. It will be the same.

 

( See my reply to sequenci earlier today. I dont know why the quotes didnt show up.) I just got a letter telling me where to show up so I can be served my very own BP. Interesting because didnt get my SD so I'm in a slightly different position. BUT same consequences

 

sand1

[sand1]

Hi Tomterm

 

Here are: BP, Claim & Judgment.

Many thanks.

Curious sand1

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tomterm8]

I'm sorry, the size of the documents is too small... have you considered using photobucket.com?

[sand1]

Thanks here's link.

 

walrus1959 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

[tomterm8]

Firstly, with the papers was a copy of the statutory demand provided? With a certificate that it was served?

 

I guess a question I have is, is there a reason to dispute the existance of the debt - that is, you originally owed aprox £13,900? Was the debt legitimate?

 

If so, then I don't think attempting to overturn (or set aside) the judgement would be a good idea, because it would not have much chance of success.

 

There is stuff we can do about it, but my personal approach would be to file an application to vary without notice as an urgent application, with a signed affidafit.

[sand1]

TOM term & Sequenci,

 

A few urgent questions -we will need to action everything on Monday 25th.

 

1. The BP was served personally on husband/partner only. No copy of the Statutory Demand. And no certificate that the SD was served.We have no idea what a SD looks like. His BP has only his name on it.

 

On the BP form, it says SD served on a woman that we dont know. She apparently works for the main reception office but the SD certainly never made its way to our Mail box. Nor did cpourt papers. V. weird.

 

2. I have received by regular post a letter from a commercial support company ( with a PO Box- a mobile number & a fax. No landline phone.) asking me to meet with him next Saturday 1 March at 2:15pm in order to serve me my very own BP. Well I have not had a Statutory Demand either. Should I go? What should I DO?

 

3. In scanning the paperwork for you, we found some interesting anomalies.

 

A. The faxed claim form from the issuing court is against both of us.

B. BUT the Default Judgment faxed is only in his name albeit T/A our company name. IF we apply to set aside- both of us or just him.

 

If there's no default judgment on me, can they proceed with a BP or even Statutory Demand?

 

4. File an application to vary without notice with a signed affidavit for what & to whom. To vary the judgment? To Issuing Court of claimant & default judgment or to local court where BP was filed? What do we say? And what about the BP?

 

5. What exactly is an affidavit?

 

6. THE CLAIM: Claim form says full details were provided to the defendants by claimants. Not true. Once we went to another printer who could supply our new requirements- on a friendly basis we thought, they went straight to court. We have no statements whatsoever.

 

THE DEBT: The debt is for monthly invoices from March-July. WE know we owe some. But not all. BUT have no paperwork at the moment because new acct. has all - books, bank statements,cheque stubs- and we cannot verify anything!

 

WE need to slow/stop any bankruptcy/judgment until such time(within the next 2 weeks) when we have our books back and we can make a payment offer on what is legitimately owed. Which is why we thought asking to set aside would give time to bring to our local court. Keep in mind- we did not receive ANY of this-it has come out of the blue.

 

SO--- HOW best progress to STOP BANKRUPTCY PROCEEDINGS? Set aside? Vary? with whom?

 

All help sincerely appreciated.

[tomterm8]

TOM term & Sequenci,

 

A few urgent questions -we will need to action everything on Monday 25th.

 

1. The BP was served personally on husband/partner only. No copy of the Statutory Demand. And no certificate that the SD was served.We have no idea what a SD looks like. His BP has only his name on it.

 

If you never recieved a copy of the stat demand, then it was never served on you.

On the BP form, it says SD served on a woman that we dont know. She apparently works for the main reception office but the SD certainly never made its way to our Mail box. Nor did cpourt papers. V. weird.

As long as you state in your affidafit that you never recieved it, then you can still submit an set aside application.

 

2. I have received by regular post a letter from a commercial support company ( with a PO Box- a mobile number & a fax. No landline phone.) asking me to meet with him next Saturday 1 March at 2:15pm in order to serve me my very own BP. Well I have not had a Statutory Demand either. Should I go? What should I DO?

You should go to meet him.

 

3. In scanning the paperwork for you, we found some interesting anomalies.

 

A. The faxed claim form from the issuing court is against both of us.

B. BUT the Default Judgment faxed is only in his name albeit T/A our company name. IF we apply to set aside- both of us or just him.

This might be an argument against your BP, BUT in reality if you were partners, they could ammend the judgement.

 

If there's no default judgment on me, can they proceed with a BP or even Statutory Demand?

 

4. File an application to vary without notice with a signed affidavit for what & to whom. To vary the judgment? To Issuing Court of claimant & default judgment or to local court where BP was filed? What do we say? And what about the BP?

 

Ok, an application to vary is an application to change the terms of a court order. What you do is ask the judge to suspend it, and then set a hearing to consider changing the order to an order to pay by installments.

 

5. What exactly is an affidavit?

 

an affidafit is a written form of oath, which states certain things are true.

 

6. THE CLAIM: Claim form says full details were provided to the defendants by claimants. Not true. Once we went to another printer who could supply our new requirements- on a friendly basis we thought, they went straight to court. We have no statements whatsoever.

 

THE DEBT: The debt is for monthly invoices from March-July. WE know we owe some. But not all. BUT have no paperwork at the moment because new acct. has all - books, bank statements,cheque stubs- and we cannot verify anything!

OK, this might be grounds for a set aside of the original CCJ.

 

WE need to slow/stop any bankruptcy/judgment until such time(within the next 2 weeks) when we have our books back and we can make a payment offer on what is legitimately owed. Which is why we thought asking to set aside would give time to bring to our local court. Keep in mind- we did not receive ANY of this-it has come out of the blue.

 

SO--- HOW best progress to STOP BANKRUPTCY PROCEEDINGS? Set aside? Vary? with whom?

 

All help sincerely appreciated.

 

 

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