HFC agreement turned up Help

[car2403]

Chris.

Had a load of paperwork from W/mans. They seem to have moved the goal posts again. They have replied to my CC and denied most of it. They have changed the amount of claim with a load of b******t.

Been reading a thread by Hopeful1 who is at a similar stage to me and there seems to be an issue with the PPI in that it should not be added to the loan (I think) any thoughts on that would help.

Also, do I need to do or send anything else to the court as I have to re-issue my defence and cc to cover the points they have added to their reply.

Regards Trevor.

 

I'll need to see what they've sent - can you post up what you have? (Personal details removed)

 

Remind me again (sorry, no time to trawl the thread again) why you need to amend your defence/counterclaim? Is that just based on their reply?

[trevor33]

Chris, thanks for the quick reply.

Do you think I will have to respond to their reply to my Defence and CC.

I still think that they are trying to justify the value of the claim.(still need to work it out). They have added £758 to the account.

"This sum levied by the Claimant pursuant to the T&C of the agreement and is claimed in respect of the Claimant having to attend upon the Defendants default, including instructing solicitors".

At no time was I told that this was going to be added to the account and does not appear on any statements.

This makes the total above £5K.

There are quite a few queries on their reply and I will post the relevant bits when I can.

Do I need to respond to their reply (if I make any changes).

Regards Trevor.

[car2403]

I don't think you need to respond to their reply - you can include that response in your witness statements, etc, once the Court has ordered they be disclosed.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the additional charges - these seem to be penalties, anyway. Were these included in the original claim?

 

You only need to submit an amended Defence and CC if you are substantially changing the basis on which you are defending or counterclaiming - any clarification on the issues they've raised as part of responding to your defence/CC will come later in the process. From what you've said here, I can't see why you'd want to amend these at this time. (Unless I'm missing something)

[trevor33]

Thanks Chris.

I am still trying to work out what their original claim was as they have changed it again. Surprise surprise, but I think the extra charge was included. Regards Trevor.

[trevor33]

Chris, A few queries.

Been reading Humblemans thread and did some research.(did not want to hijack his thread with this). I think that the T&C are not the ones that go with the agreement but I cannot find out for sure. Also I have used the on-line calculator to work out the payments and it seems that they got it wrong by about £15 over the term. How accurate is that calculator and can I use this?

Now that my Defence and CC is in and the AQ is in, is there anything else I need to do?

[car2403]

Now that my Defence and CC is in and the AQ is in, is there anything else I need to do?

 

Nothing really, with regards the Court anyway - you're waiting for allocation to take place and a hearing date to be set.

 

You can use this time to review/revise your submissions. It won't necessarily change your defence statement, but you will need to have skeleton arguments ready 2 weeks before the hearing date - this would be the time to include these additional issues, IMHO, otherwise you'll need to amend your defence and that can cause some additional delay after this point.

 

With the T&C's, you're looking for discrepancies in name of the company, "reference numbers" that make the agreement different from the T&C's and which don't "link" the pages of the T&C's together, etc. Anything you can add to throw more doubt over their version of events will win you the benefit of that doubt from the Judge - the other side will be countering your arguments, though, so thinking outside of the box would be good. You need to be prepared to rip your own argument apart, as that is what their job is - that way, you can counter their counter arguments (you can see how sticky this can get!) and add strength to your overall case.

 

Which figures on the agreement are wrong? I'll have to have another look over them. Usually, the tolerances are only 1p in the pound per month (1%) so this would add to the other issues with the overall agreement.

[trevor33]

Which figures on the agreement are wrong? I'll have to have another look over them. Usually, the tolerances are only 1p in the pound per month (1%) so this would add to the other issues with the overall agreement.

Done the calculation using PE&M and got the following.

 

Agreement interest £2179.28 Payment £79.67

PE&M interest £2164.02 Payment £79.48

 

PPI interest £285.01 Payment £10.42

PE&M interest £283.30 Payment £10.39

 

This seems to be within the 0.1% tolerance

My reasoning about the T&C is that I have found an old document which includes T&C's at the time of agreement. These are entirely different from what has been sent by w/mans which makes me think they are a more recent version. Can I use this document in my defence?

[REST ON A SUNDAY]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/campaign/144448-monitoring-actions-restons-solicitors.html

suggest you check your default notice for the wording

 

it should say 14 days from the date of service not 14 days

 

as restons ( yes i know you are with weightmans) have set a precedent by admitting that a default notice is defective

 

but the same principle of non validity will apply to your default notice ??

[cashins]

sub

[trevor33]

WElcome to the HFC saga cashins. Thanks for the input ROS. I think most of the documents from W/mans are a bit iffy. I will look again at the DN but I think the whole thing is wrong.

The court seems to think that the case will not be allocated until SEPTEMBER.......long time to wait. I want to get it over with.

[cashins]

Hi T33

 

Have an interest although not at a litigation stage.

 

I have 2 HFC accounts in default and after reading this post, dug out the Default Notices, (both 2006 vintage).

 

One gives me 9 days, the other 10 days to correct the breach, from the date of issue. What I need to work out now is how I can use it.

 

What would we do without CAG!!

 

Good luck T

 

David

[trevor33]

Hi David.

If you contact car2403 I am sure he can help. He has guided me though all of my posts so far. His advice has been excellent.

Regards Trevor.

[car2403]

Hi T33

 

Have an interest although not at a litigation stage.

 

I have 2 HFC accounts in default and after reading this post, dug out the Default Notices, (both 2006 vintage).

 

One gives me 9 days, the other 10 days to correct the breach, from the date of issue. What I need to work out now is how I can use it.

 

What would we do without CAG!!

 

Good luck T

 

David

 

Standard process with HFC you'll find.

 

I've had this issue with both of my claims involving them - 1 has been settled out of court (default removed) and the other is pending court directions;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/110146-car2403-hfc-bank-default.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/134396-car2403-hfc-bank-default.html

 

HFC bank will blatantly tell you, in writing, that they don't keep copies of Default Notices. So far, I've seen 4 different templates - all of which they have relied on as being true copies of the originals, until they've been queried because the information is wrong, like dates (as in your case) and names/addresses/prescribed terms missing.

 

Anyone in this situation has a legal right to claim against them, as trevor/I/lots of others have/are doing, for default removal and damage to credit reputation.

 

If you care to start a new thread, I'll be happy to help out, as it all puts extra pressure on this rogue trader to get their house in order.

[trevor33]

Good to hear from you again car, hope you are well. As you can see, I am not expecting court date until september, oh well!

Could we not use some of these cases as evidence in court?

[car2403]

Good to hear from you again car, hope you are well. As you can see, I am not expecting court date until september, oh well!

Could we not use some of these cases as evidence in court?

 

That does seem quite long - I don't think you will be waiting that long, personally.

 

We can't use these cases against each other in Court, as most of them are small claims and one small claims decision doesn't influence another. (No precedant set) Having said that, I'm sure the MP's of those involved and the press would be interested in the story. Never say never...

[trevor33]

Oh well, just a thought. It seems there is a lot of people getting the defaults removed on the same or similar grounds and still no precident is set, doesn't seem fair.

[car2403]

Oh well, just a thought. It seems there is a lot of people getting the defaults removed on the same or similar grounds and still no precident is set, doesn't seem fair.

 

There will be a precedant set if a fast or multi track case comes to Court.

 

HFC and their cronies are well aware of that and would probably settle before that point.

[trevor33]

There will be a precedant set if a fast or multi track case comes to Court.

 

HFC and their cronies are well aware of that and would probably settle before that point.

Chris, Had the AQ from W/mans today......what a load of rubbish.

1. My AQ had to be in by 14th April. Theirs filed 21st May.

2. They want a 1 month stay.

3. They have not complied with PAP in late submission of AQ

4. They want case to go to Fast Track

5. They want to Allocate 1 DAY for hearing

6. Their costs to date £1000, Estimated overall costs £4500

7. I attached a copy of letter asking for settlement to my AQ, they want it disregarded at this stage.

8. In their "Other information" box they put "the fact that the value of the claim clearly exceeds the small claims limit and the case does involve some fairly complex and technical arguments regarding the consumer credit legislation"

I think they are trying to intimidate me into submitting, is there anything I can do?

[car2403]

I think they are trying to intimidate me into submitting, is there anything I can do?

 

This is standard process and the Judge should see right through it, hopefully.

 

IMHO, if he is even considering anything but small claims track, he will need to hold a case management conference to consider the AQ submissions before allocating to track.

 

I don't think it will come to that - you should receive standard small claims track directions and allocation to SCT a few weeks after the AQ submission deadline.

 

Hopefully, he won't even consider their submission as it was received late anyway.

[trevor33]

thanks Chris. I have been following Hopeful1's thread and it makes you wonder about the judicial system by the way he has been treated. As to the costs on their AQ £4500, they must be kidding. That works out to 100 hours at £45 per hour, are solicitors paid that much? :-?

Regards Trevor

[Hopeful1]

thanks Chris. I have been following Hopeful1's thread and it makes you wonder about the judicial system by the way She has been treated. As to the costs on their AQ £4500, they must be kidding. That works out to 100 hours at £45 per hour, are solicitors paid that much? :-?

Regards Trevor

 

Hi Trevor

 

I keep asking for a breakdown of charges incl sol costs, but

(un)surprisingly i've not had anything yet.

 

I had nearly £1500 added when sols started managing the account. never mind what they're adding now.

 

As part of the negotiations, i have asked what the costs would be if we settle out of court. Again, no answer.

 

It's enough to make you swear (repeatedly)

 

from Mrs Hopeful1

[trevor33]

Sorry MRS Hopeful1. I should not assume all CAGers are male. The sols have added £750 to the account. No record of it anywhere in the paperwork. The only people in this situation are the ones that are least able to pay (so lets add loads to the account). LEACHES!!!

Regards Trevor

[Hopeful1]

Sorry MRS Hopeful1. I should not assume all CAGers are male. The sols have added £750 to the account. No record of it anywhere in the paperwork. The only people in this situation are the ones that are least able to pay (so lets add loads to the account). LEACHES!!!

Regards Trevor

 

 

You need to push them for statements showing ALL transactions. I'm having to do that otherwise they are not revealing all the info and showing how the debt is made up.

[trevor33]

All the paperwork is before the court so I cannot ask for more info....thanks anyway.

[zhanzhibar]

Subscribing... in the same boat too...