HUMBLEMAN vs HFC-WEIGHTMANS COURT ACTION

[tedney]

Hello Humbleman

Just come across this. I too am in "discussions" with Weightmans. I shall read through your thread this weekend. No court case for me yet! I will also check out Trevor's thread too.

[car2403]

I was at a Case Management hearing where I asked the judge to make an order that HFC/Phoenix bring the original of the agreement at the hearing, he admited that HFC have admitted that they do not have the original so there was no point.

 

You wha???!!!! How can the spurious absence of an agreement, admitted by the other side, be totally ignored in the CMC? This is no less than an outrage! With no agreement, there is no claim, so why issue directions asking for disclosure - they've admitted that they don't have the agreement! Shocking!

 

Anyway, I wouldn't bother with an app to strike out - it will extend the amount of time this will take to deal with. Just go along with the directions and wait to see what they disclosure - you're far more likely to get a strike out for non-compliance with Courts orders much quicker than you would asking to strike the claim out at this stage. IMHO of course.

[humbleman]

Here is the copy of NOA from weightmans

 

http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg10/123GGGG_2008/?action=view&current=assign.jpg

 

 

This is the document they are relying on, to transfer the claimant from HFC to Phoenix.

 

When I told the Judge that according to LPA 1925 s136 this assignment is not valid, due to .........

 

Guess what he told me

 

Law of Property Act is to do with properties and not credit card agreements and the solicitors for Phoenix supported that too.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2009 by humbleman

[car2403]

I still think this applies;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/33174-consumer-credit-act-agreements-722.html#post2040770

 

You'll see from that and the responses, though, that it is open to interpretation somewhat. I see Paul is subbed to the thread, (his posts appearing above) so I'm wondering if you can offer some guidance on this one Paul? Is it really this complicated, or are we overcomplicating unnecessarily and how does that apply in the OP's case? (You might want to share that with the main CCA thread as well - link above?)

[tedney]

I have identical letter from W in respect of credit card accout. I am currently awaiting response to SAR from Marbles, now overdue, please see my thread on this.

[humbleman]

now got the order for case management from the courts and need to submit my standard disclosures in 2 weeks together with copies all documents mentioned in the list.

 

Now I have recently been sent their terms and conditions, which are obviously not the one that prevailed at the inception of the account, since I have the original blank with me. Should I use this against them. The other thing is that when my account started Beneficil now HFC were at a different address to the one listed on the T & C's they have supplied and I have the original account opening letter and T&c's that has the correct address. Should I make an issue of this to say they are liars or should I concentrate on the arguements of illegible application form etc. The trial is listed for a window in June.

[car2403]

Have they submitted the T&C's they sent you to the Court?

[humbleman]

Have they submitted the T&C's they sent you to the Court?

 

They have now.

[Viscount Stair]

Here is the copy of NOA from weightmans

 

NOA picture by 123GGGG_2008 - Photobucket

 

 

This is the document they are relying on, to transfer the claimant from HFC to Phoenix.

 

When I told the Judge that according to LPA 1925 s136 this assignment is not valid, due to .........

 

Guess what he told me

 

Law of Property Act is to do with properties and not credit card agreements and the solicitors for Phoenix supported that too.

 

 

 

 

 

Uh! As we all know (apart, it seems, from the learned judge), a credit card agreement is a chose in action, which is property.

[humbleman]

Need some help in making an application to have the claim struck out since they neither have an agreement nor the original of the illegible application.

[car2403]

Need some help in making an application to have the claim struck out since they neither have an agreement nor the original of the illegible application.

 

So, the issues that I can see (correct me if I'm wrong) are;

 

- T&C's not supplied, or the ones they are relying on are not the original ones and you can prove this if you need to? Kind of irrelevant, but...

 

- The original agreement is missing and they are seeking to enforce a copy that isn't enforceable? I'm not sure why, but presume it's missing prescribed terms/your signature and/or is illegible?

 

If this is right, it seems reasonable to seek a strike out.

 

Before doing that, though, have you pointed this out and asked them to discontinue?

[pt2537]

Totally agree with Car there

 

Unless your represented then it is not unreasonable to ask them to drop the case before making a formal application to strike them out

 

make sure your lettter is clear, "I require your reply by no later than 4pm on XXXXXX" give them 7 days and then bang in the application

[humbleman]

I have just found their welcome letter when the account was open, here it is.

 

WELCOME picture by 123GGGG_2008 - Photobucket

 

Now if you read this it says following your successful application....

 

and the letter is dated 30 July they are relying on an application form that they call agreement which is signed and dated by them on the 29th July. so there only ever was an application that is illegible.

[humbleman]

can someone point me in direction of what to do to submit standard disclosure list.

 

Thanks

[robcag]

can someone point me in direction of what to do to submit standard disclosure list.

 

Thanks

 

Hi HM

 

This is how I did mine after some guidance from pt2537;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/124572-hfc-no-agreement-amended-6.html#post1347693

 

Cheers

Rob

[humbleman]

thanks Rob

[humbleman]

can someone tell me if the disclosure list need to be sent to the court or just the claimant

[car2403]

Both

[humbleman]

Both

 

Thanks Chris.

 

Are there any consequences for being late to submit this.

[humbleman]

If I an including case law in my disclosures, do I need the complete case

[humbleman]

Just realised that I need to file my witness statement by next weekend, could do with a bit of guidance, here is a bit of the background:

 

 

 

No right of cancellation were given

 

They have just got a illegible micro copy of the proposal from and the t&c they have produced are from later years. Their reply to my defence is based upon these 2 copies. i.e. the defendant had signed an agreement and clause blah blah were breached etc.

 

The debt has been assigned to Phoenix without a NOA.

 

 

Following my CPR request nothing was given except part of statements

 

 

 

 

Also need filing a form N268 to prove documents namely the agreement, I think the following applies to such request

 

 

Notice to admit or produce documents

32.19 (1)A party shall be deemed to admit the authenticity of a document disclosed to him under Part 31 (disclosure and inspection of documents) unless he serves notice that he wishes the document to be proved at trial.

 

 

(2)A notice to prove a document must be served –

 

(a)by the latest date for serving witness statements; or

 

(b)within 7 days of disclosure of the document, whichever is later.

[humbleman]

Right, I intend to file N268 asap, followed by a letter to ask them if they are willing to discontinue, if not then file for strike out.

 

But, I need help filling in the N268

[car2403]

I haven't filed an N268 before but I'll see if I can find someone who has who can lend a hand, HM.

[humbleman]

thanks Chris

[supasnooper]

Hi there,

 

It may help if you read this post by x20 regarding n268's -

Getting Them To Reveal Their Vitals. Using CPR 31.14 to Your Advantage