Natwest CCA Response

[car2403]

CPR Part 6.2(1);

 

6.2 (1)A document may be served by any of the following methods –

(a)personal service, in accordance with rule 6.4;

(b)first class post (or an alternative service which provides for delivery on the next working day);

©leaving the document at a place specified in rule 6.5;

(d)through a document exchange in accordance with the relevant practice direction; or

(e)by fax or other means of electronic communication in accordance with the relevant practice direction.

 

 

Don't line Royal Mails coffers by paying for Recorded Delivery if it isn't necessary, IMHO! Just get proof of postage and make sure your return address is on the back in case of non-delivery.

[The GodMother]

Yes but it says that it has to guarentee next day delivery.

 

First class post DOES NOT gaurentte next day delivery. A few of my partners family work for royal mail so l know this.

 

Only 75% of mail that is posted first class get there the next working day after posting.

 

For second class mail it needs to be there within 5 working days, but they say 7 as delivery to some place are 7 days.

 

Also the only way you get proof of posting is recorded delivery or special delivery. You dont get a recipt for first class stamp post.

 

Chrissi

[car2403]

Good point, Chrissi - but Recorded Delivery mail travels by First Class post, so that would imply everything has to go Special (Next Day) Delivery. Can't see the Court doing that neither...

 

You can get a Certificate of Posting anything with stamps already on it from the Post Office Counter.

[The GodMother]

you may get a recipt but it still does not guarentee next day delivery or provide you with the proof that the document was recieved.

 

A court has told me that it would need a signature as proof the item was recieved. I told them they would need to wait a few days due to the fact that it can take up to a week for a signature to appear on line. I was then told l would need to ring and reuest the signature but when l explained itwould cost me they decided to wait.

 

If a court is aying they need signature proof then you need to send documents buy at least recorded delivery.

 

Chrissi

[davefirewalker]

you may get a recipt but it still does not guarentee next day delivery or provide you with the proof that the document was recieved.

 

A court has told me that it would need a signature as proof the item was recieved. I told them they would need to wait a few days due to the fact that it can take up to a week for a signature to appear on line. I was then told l would need to ring and reuest the signature but when l explained itwould cost me they decided to wait.

 

If a court is aying they need signature proof then you need to send documents buy at least recorded delivery.

 

Chrissi

 

Thats all well and good.........but the courts themselves ONLY send by first class......have you tried saying to the court...I didnt receive it......there response would be "tough luck we sent it first class" ???

 

As long as you have proof of posting, that SHOULD be enough.

 

HOWEVER i always use recorded or special...just to be sure

 

Dave

[The GodMother]

yes i have told a court l never recieved documents and as a result of my information about royal mail they have never told ne tough we sent it first class.

 

Every court nos if they want a good service then send it so they can get proof of delivery.

 

This is especially my local courts because even tho they are rite next door to each other they still never recieve there post on time.

 

Chrissi

[Scrappy01]

I wouldn't include the wording of the Act/Regulations in your letter - a reference to them is fine unless referring to specific words, which you aren't here.

 

Also, why are you giving them 14 days to respond when they are (presumably) already in default of your request 12+2 days in? Tell them that they are in default and you consider the entire balance of the account in dispute as a result and payments won't be made until the dispute is resolved.

 

I know you said you don't want to push them, but these are THEIR obligations under the law and they aren't taking you seriously, IMHO. Don't pander to their whims by letting it drag on is my advice...

 

The only reason I'm giving them 14 days is because I have a bank account with them that holds a small amount of money that I use to pay for things for a part time business I have. I didn't think it would get this far so I want time to open another account. Just because I heard of banks taking money out of current accounts without permission to pay credit cards. I'm sure its a worry about nothing and unlikely to happen but nothing suprises me now and if they did this it would leave me with a serious problem.

[Scrappy01]

Thats all well and good.........but the courts themselves ONLY send by first class......have you tried saying to the court...I didnt receive it......there response would be "tough luck we sent it first class" ???

 

As long as you have proof of posting, that SHOULD be enough.

 

HOWEVER i always use recorded or special...just to be sure

 

Dave

 

Very true Dave. I recently had my copies of court papers served on a company sent to me and they were only posted first class.

 

I always post recorded, but I sometimes wonder if its worth it because a lot of post is bulk signed for. I've had no end of letters that are untracable. I've called Royal Mail after weeks of supposed non-delivery and even they didn't know if the letters had been signed for. Very annoying when your paying for the tracking element!!!!!

[The GodMother]

I can say l have never had any problems like that at all.

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi Anita

 

Good letter but Natwest and Miss B there does not back down.

 

The advantage you have got is that it is unreadable.

 

Will be interesting to see what they come back with on this.

 

HAK

[Scrappy01]

Hi Anita

 

Good letter but NatWest and Miss B there does not back down.

 

The advantage you have got is that it is unreadable.

 

Will be interesting to see what they come back with on this.

 

HAK

 

Sending my letter Monday. Will post again if I hear anything from them. If I don't hear anything after 14 days I'll just write to them again and say its in dispute. Going to see if I can open another account on Monday too, lets just hope I can!

[MAGDA]

On the postage issue, I have to say I agree with Car2403. Recorded does not guarantee next day delivery, it takes just as long as standard first class. Special is the only way to guarantee next day. I have recently sent several letters to one of my creditors by recorded, and although the correspondence arrived and was signed for, the creditor apparently doesn't have it, so either the letters were subsequently lost, or the creditor is lying. Either way, I now need to send duplicates. I would just send by first class and as Car said, get a cert of postage. It's much cheaper for one thing! Magda

[Scrappy01]

Just an update. I posted my letter and its been delivered so awaiting a response.

 

I got another account opened with Lloyds. Probably a good job I did because shabby Abbey have totally screwed up my main bank account. I went in on the 10th to ask for the interest rate on my current account to be changed as I have an O/D now. They removed my O/D!!!!!! They can't see who removed it or why (yeah right, sounds like another IT issue). They had to reapply for the O/D and no news yet. Due to be paid tomorrow so had to use this new account and move all my DD's and wages over. This is not the first time they have messed up. Tried to cancel my DD's and standing orders online and it should be done by now, guess what.... its not. God I'm angry with them!!!!! I'm sure they'll be a list of charges as long as my arm on my statement!!!!!! If they think I'll pay them they can whistle.

[The GodMother]

gdgd I think they like whistling

[Scrappy01]

Had sometime off work to go and sort out Shabbey this morning. Funny but when I said if they didn't sort things out today and put the O/D back on and cancel the S/O's and DD's I'd move all 3 of my accounts away. Within 10 minutes my O/D had reappeared. Clever that. Still very angry with them. I have a weeks worth of instant overdraft charges (and whatever else they feel like adding on) pending in Feb now. I ain't paying them, but just more hassle getting it back. Still gonna close my accounts with them, they made toooooo many mistakes with my account in the last few months for comfort.

[IIIUMINATI]

A recorded delivery which has been signed for may only establish that an envelope was delivered. There may be no contents or the wrong contents in the envelope. May be an idea to get an independent witness to verify what was put in the envelope and sign over the gummed down section prior to sealing and sending. May be the red wax seal could come back. Alway look on the bad side of life when dealing with banks

debt collectors and the rest.

[car2403]

A recorded delivery which has been signed for may only establish that an envelope was delivered. There may be no contents or the wrong contents in the envelope. May be an idea to get an independent witness to verify what was put in the envelope and sign over the gummed down section prior to sealing and sending. May be the red wax seal could come back. Alway look on the bad side of life when dealing with banks

debt collectors and the rest.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/126346-royal-mail-lost-2-a.html

[Scrappy01]

Can someone take a look over this other thread I have...... http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/122713-cca-vodafone-singlepoint.html

 

Bit of a Data Protection nightmare I'm having...........

 

Thanks.

[Scrappy01]

OK I got a response from Natwest over the weekend to my letter. I got the same letter everyone else has had from Miss Bennett. They included this time with it the Terms and Conditions but the copy of the "application form" is no more readable than the last so I can't tell if its got all the perscribed terms. I'm still paying. Not sure what to do now!!!

[Scrappy01]

In fact the more I think about it, the more it annoys me that they can't actually be bothered to write a sincere letter addressing all my points in my letter, aaaaarrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhh!!!! I wonder if Miss Bennett enjoys her job................

[The GodMother]

they have sent a application from whcih is not readable. So they have not complied. I would write to them asking fot the correct documents in the correct format eg readable by all those involved as in you and miss bennetand CAB/Your solicitor. this part is just to frighten them.

[Curlyben]

Deary me.

Well how's this for Miss B

 

Account in Dispute

 

 

I refer to your letter dated xxxxx

 

I note that you have sent me a copy of the application form for this account.

 

However, on the (DATE YOU SENT CCA) I made a written request for a copy of the executed agreement under s77/78 CCA. This letter was sent by recorded delivery and signed for at your office on >IF THIS IS THE WAY YOU DID IT

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

 

Please note that your company is now in default as this request was not complied with within 12 working days as prescribed by the Consumer Credit Act (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 SI 1557.

 

I now require that you provide me with a copy of the correct document, or your written acknowledgement that you are unable to do so, within 14 days of receipt of this letter.

 

Please also note that until such time as you do provide me with a true copy of this document, the agreement remains unenforceable and no further payments will be made.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[Scrappy01]

Thanks Curlyben and Godmother. I'll give this a go.

 

I think from what I can read its missing many of the prescribed terms anyway aside the ledgiblity issues.

 

I'll probably get loads of threatening letters and calls from the DCA its with. My main concern is that NatWest will say they have complied and sent me the paper work. I'm just having one of these sorts of arguments with IF and Blair Oliver and Scott and also they didn't listen to my request about discussions in writing only and continued to call me. How do you handle situations like this when they tell the DCA they have complied???

[The GodMother]

report them to the police for the harrassement via text and telephone. Then take them to court over the harassesmnet

[Scrappy01]

I've thought about reporting them (and many others) to the various bodies. But I read on here that none of them seem to take it seriously and actually do anything. I have at least 5 companies who have failed to provide anything for the CCA and a few others are like this Natwest one. Is it worth reporting them to anyone or just battling it out?

 

Do you have any cases Godmother where you have taken them to court for non-compliance with CCA?