Debt

[timmrichards]

Hi all

 

Starting from the beginning what are my rights, it's in relation to a £5,000 debt, they have so far threatened various actions, including visiting my house, and now they have pulled out an involuntary income disclosure - I've googled this and can't see any reference to it, except in relation to Council tax and Inland Revenue debts. What rights do they have and what do I have?

 

any help would be much appreciated

 

thanks

[spamheed]

All of the following is based on the fact that the debt is not statute barred. ie it has been at least six years since they've had written acknowledgement of the debt, or a payment against it. if it is over 6 years, they have no power of enforcement

 

Involuntary income disclosure? only the courts could apply such an order and even then, they would have to have liability proven, and a bloody good case of debt avoidance. which since you have entered negotiations seems a little unlikely

 

They cant visit your house, if they do, tell them to depart, or whatever words you choose to substitute, they have no powers and can be arrested for breach of the peace and sued for trespass if they dont leave immediately.

 

How do you know they even have a legal right to collect on the debt?

 

Send them the CCA letter (Letter N from the templates library) it will buy you time and show them you are aware of your rights.

 

Make sure you put I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY in big bold letters.

 

Dont sign the letter and ensure you send a £1 postal order along with it.

Make sure you send the letter recorded and retain recipts etc.

 

It would depend on where you're going (don't say) within the EEC there are many reciprocal agreements for the collection of debts. If a CCJ were applied for, in your absence its possible that if they knew your whereabouts, they could pursue across borders.

[timmrichards]

thanks for the response and I'm doing this now, can you let me know what the impact of the phrase "I do not acknowledge any debt"... is?

 

I don't recognise a debt to their company my debt is to cahoot, they have changed their tune from "owing our client money" to "owing us money". I know they buy the debt off a creditor, legally as I have no agreement in place with the debt company am I obliged to pay them?

[Edz11]

It might be a good idea to ask for the following as part of your letter;

 

"please confirm that you are "creditor" (as defined by the CCA 1974) for the purposes of this alleged agreement".

 

If they are, then they have certain responsibilities as well as rights. But best to clarify this aspect first.

[spamheed]

"I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY"

 

is exactly as it says, you are refuting any liability with their company, placing the burden of proof back onto them, also because you are refuting the debt, they can't use the letter to start the clock ticking again with regard to statute barred debts

[timmrichards]

Excellent, thanks and what's the reason for not signing the letter?

[spamheed]

Nobody would ever say without proof that a DCA would deliberately copy and paste your signature onto a blank CCA and present it as an original

 

But the theory that they could, is enough to take such precautions, best not to sign anything, and if they ask for a signature to verify your identity, ignore them, they don't need it

[timmrichards]

That's what I was thinking the precaution was for, if I did sign it, but made it outrageously different from my accepted signature (the one on my passport, credit cards, bank cards etc...) and I was then sent a copy of a signed CCA with a copy of my "non-signature" on there, couldn't that be proof of fraud? That could be quite entertaining .

[timmrichards]

I've now sent off the letter, they are still calling me every day, the number they have is my business mobile and so I have to take the call incase it's business related. I shouldn't have given them the number, which was stupid, I have told them to stop calling and put everything in writing to me. I have told them I am going to start legal proceedings against them for calling in office hours and preventing me from doing my job, can I or is that just an empty threat? This lot are like a dog with a bone.

[42man]

Make sure that you WRITE down the time they called, I imagine your phone keeps a log of the calls.....keep this in evidence and also supply it to Trading Standards and the OFT....If they continue to call you then they will be committing a CRIMINAL offence....

[timmrichards]

Excellent, is there a letter that I can copy on here? Should I cc the DCA involved as well.

[timmrichards]

I sent the non-acknowledgement of debt/request for a copy of the credit agreement letter by recorded delivery and it arrived on the 10th of December, I thought it being over Christmas that it would take a little while longer to arrive back with me. It's now the 5th of Jan, I think that's a reasonable length of time to wait, and I still haven't received a copy. The phone calls have dried up somewhat although the same guy did call, saying he was from Apex credit, I'd already done my research into BCW and found out there's a relationship between the two companies. I enquired as to how he came about having the number and threatened him with action under Data protection laws, he's not called again since.

 

What's the next action please folks?

[Brassed off]

You don’t have to do anything! Just WAIT for a response.

 

They have 10+2 working days to respond to your CCA request. If they received it on 10th December (presumably you have proof of this), then the 12+2 working days would have been up on 28th December and as you have put the account in dispute by requesting the CCA, you can stop paying them.

 

If after a further calendar month, you’ve still not received a response, then they have committed a summary offence and a complaint to Trading Standards is in order.

 

If you receive any more ‘phone calls, do not speak to them, insist on all correspondence being in writing only. If they continue to call, then send them this:-

 

Telephone Harassment Letter

 

Keep us updated!

 

Bo:)

[timmrichards]

I received my first call from them in weeks, so I'm printing off the harassment letter. They're still calling my business line and preventing me from working, do I have any legal protection against that?

 

PS still no Credit Agreement, I sent the letter on the 7th it was received and signed for on the tenth, by my calculations they are 5 days shy of commiting a summary offence.

 

Forgot to say they are now calling up as Apex credit, I believe they merged with or acquired B,C & W, does my dispute still hold sway or do I have to resend all documentation?

[spamheed]

You are asking them to prove their financial and legal relationship with you, it doesn't really matter how they go about what they're doing, they still have to respond to your request.

 

They haven't done so and long may they continue not to do so!!

 

If that's even good english!!

[ravingmad]

hi iam just starting petition to p.m to stop debt collection agencies from intimidating or harrassing us. it should be on line tomorrow. could you all please sign it and get your friends to as well.just lookup petition the primeminister.many thanks:!:

[spamheed]

I would consider petition that they cannot even approach debtor without production of CCA

[timmrichards]

28th has been and gone, no Credit Agreement sent, they also haven't sent any further letters demanding payment. They are calling approximately every 2/3 weeks though. What are the next steps please folks? I'm quite happy with things as they are, I can take an annoying phonecall once a fortnight as I just cut them off.

[42man]

Report them to their local trading standards, the OFT, your local MP, and the FOS....

[timmrichards]

cool and can you let me know what that achieves? Do they get fined, or have to clear the debt. thanks for your help. Oh and is this directed to the DCA or the credit card company?

[42man]

Well bear in mind if they cannot produce the document under your bona-fide request in the prescribed timescale they have committed an offence under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which I believe is punishable by a £2,500 fine or 3 months in prison...plus if enough of our complaints go through the pressure will be on for them to investigate the FOS charge the DCA £400 just to investigate....you MUST complain...If they have no solid evidence (bear in mind that the CCA must contain the prescribed terms and be properly executed) it could almost be construed as demanding money by menace.

[patrickq1]

also when they phone just tell them one minit please and play pink floyd pulse they love pink floyd but due to their costs they cant seem to get to the end without hanging up on you how rude can one get lol try it it works for me everytime

patrickq1

[timmrichards]

thanks guys, can you let me know if there's a template letter I can use?

[timmrichards]

Can you guys please confirm, that now I have requested the CCA information and they haven't returned it, that this particular DCA, now cannot collect the debt? Is there a CCA request non-compliance standard letter available, I've looked for one, but have been unable to find.

 

thanks

 

T

[Edz11]

they can't enforce it until they've complied with your request. Although, I did see a catalogue co say "we can't find it" then issue a county court claim!! I reckon that was a mistake..