Help! Received Court Claim Form**WON**

[MR2Phil]

Hi guys,

 

I've just received an MCOL completely out of the blue from CL Finance/Howard Cohen for an outstanding amount on an old Dorothy Perkins card. I had offered to pay £80 a month towards the £800 debt but then got into trouble and got myself into a situation where my outgoings were more than my incomings resulting in me selling just about anything I own of any worth. When I tried making a payment one day (shifting debt around), they told me the account was in the hands of Viking Financial. The ONLY (and I mean this) letter I received from Viking was one saying that I had made no effort to contact them etc and that the debt was being passed back.

 

Then I received the MCOL for £985.11 which includes £125 of fees/costs. I panicked a bit and started filling out the agreement form hoping that I could pay it back monthly but then I read a bit saying that a judgement may be made against me if this is the case???

 

PLEASE someone tell me how I go about dealing with this? I am literally JUST about breaking even each month (and that's with NO spending on luxuries). I am not contesting the amount (apart from the high fees) but need advice on the correct steps here.

 

Thanks all,

 

Phil

[pt2537]

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.

c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

d.Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

f. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

g. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

h. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

i. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

 

 

ok firstly via special delivery send this letter to CL Finance/Howard Cohen as a matter of urgency, edit as required

[pt2537]

Also have a read of this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html

 

i will be back a little later to help further,

 

just a question when do you have to file the acknowledgement of service by ?

 

i would suggest that at this stage you consider defending all of the claim until such time as they disclose all the documents requested in the above letter

 

as i said i will be back a little later to offer more extensive advice

 

Regards

 

Paul

[pt2537]

Also it would be very helpful if you could post their particulars of claim up on here so we can see what they are claiming, obviously dont post any personal details but the text of what they are claiming would help

 

regards

paul

[MR2Phil]

Ok, thanks for your speedy replies. I have 14 days from date of issue which was 26th November. I literally received the notice yesterday. What happens if I defend the whole amount and then lose? Will I have a CCJ recorded against me? I assume I already have a default now.

 

I will get the particulars and so on up here in the next half hour or so...

 

Thanks again

[MR2Phil]

Ok, particulars:

 

"The Claimant's claim is for the sum of £860.11 being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant under a regulated credit agreement between the Defendant and GE Capital Bank Limited under reference ************* and assigned to the Claimant on the 21st November, 2007 notice of which has been given to the Defendant.

 

The Defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served upon Defendant persuant to Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Pursuant to clause 7 of the agreement, the Claimant also claims contractual interest at a rate of 26.478% per annum from the date of these proceedings to the date of judgment, or sooner payment, accruing at a daily rate of £0.68"

 

Now, I'm a reasonable chap. I don't want to not pay this, but the fact I was TRYING and they still have resorted to this is what has left the bitterest taste.

[pt2537]

Hi

 

Right then, what happens if you admit you owe the money and dont defend?

 

they win on their terms!!!!!

 

by sending the CPR request letter above, you are asking for them to produce the documents they are relying upon for this claim

 

you have a right to disclosure, now then, there is a possibility that they do not have the documents they NEED to take this to court.

if this is the case GAME OVER you have a damn good chance of getting their case thrown out

 

even if they do supply you with the required documents it doesnt mean that they are correct and comply with the consumer credit act 1974

 

as i said bear with me and i will come back this evening when i have a litttle more time and go through everything

 

regards

paul

[MR2Phil]

Thanks, Paul. The CPR letter is typed and ready to go, Special Delivery tonight.

 

Thanks so much for the help already.

 

EDIT: Forgot to ask. Do I need to do anything with this claim form? ie, do I need to go the MCOL thing and say that I'm defending or does just sending the CPR letter suffice for now?

[pt2537]

Hi Phil

 

Right, you need to acknowledge service of the court claim forms and also you will need to state your intention to defend all of the claim

 

at this stage since you have not been supplied the copies of the notice of assignment,Default Notice and Credit Agreement (which is fully compliant with the Consumer Credit Act 1974) you cannot file any sort of defence to their claims, so that is why we are sending the Disclosure Request under the CPR.

 

i think until they prove they have a legal right to this action we should treat it as Defend until they prove the documents are correct and exsist then if they do provuide the stuff and its in order we can go from there )if that makes sense)

 

dont forget the old saying innocent until proven guilty, its for them to prove their case against you

 

ive just got back from shopping so once ive got the kids sorted and had something to eat i will be back to help

 

Regards

paul

[tomterm8]

Hm... have they actually sent you a default notice yet? If so, can you post it (minus your name, address, account no etc, but including your balance)

 

I noticed you stated the value of the debt was £800, and their claim is £880.

[MR2Phil]

Thanks again Paul, so I need to send back my part of the blue claim form saying I'm defending it? I've already sent them the letter, Special Delivery arriving tomorrow at 1pm, asking for details etc.

 

Tom, sorry, claim is for £880 in total, £800 popped into my head when I first wrote the post (stressed!) I have not received a default notice as such. All I got was my standard bill saying that legal action was starting. This is AFTER I had tried to make a payment of £80 so they could see I was at least trying. Once before they got all snotty on the phone saying "If you can afford £80 then surely you can afford £120?" How do they work that out?!

[pt2537]

Thanks again Paul, so I need to send back my part of the blue claim form saying I'm defending it? DOES IT HAVE A MONEY CLAIM PASSWORD WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO FILE IT ONLINE AS OPPOSED SENDING THE PAPER FORM? YOU NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE CLAIM THATS FOR SURE, IF YOU CAN DO IT ONLINE IT MAKES LIFE EASIER THE BLUE N1 FORM SHOULD HAVE THE PASSWORD ON IT I've already sent them the letter, Special Delivery arriving tomorrow at 1pm, asking for details etc.

 

Tom, sorry, claim is for £880 in total, £800 popped into my head when I first wrote the post (stressed!) I have not received a default notice as such. OH DEAR.THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THIS WITHOUT A DEFAULT NOTICE All I got was my standard bill saying that legal action was starting. This is AFTER I had tried to make a payment of £80 so they could see I was at least trying. Once before they got all snotty on the phone saying "If you can afford £80 then surely you can afford £120?" How do they work that out?!A TYPICAL DCA TACTIC TO GET YOU TO PAY MORE THAN YOU CAN AFFORD

[MR2Phil]

I take it I'd know if I'd received a default notice?! What I'm saying is, it wouldn't just be part of their normal monthly statement? I've had warning letters about missing payments meaning a default would be applied but nothing saying one actually had been.

 

I'm about to go to the MCOL thing to say that I intend to defend...but what are the reasons for my defence? Do I need anything more concrete than "I don't believe they are the owners of this debt" or something? Do I even need to submit a reason yet? I only ask as I don't want to end up in court with no plausible reason for defence.

 

If they come back with every single thing I've asked for and everything is perfectly in order...will I end up with a CCJ as a result of defending? I really don't know how this stuff works. I've checked the link out you supplied but still am none the wiser (ok, slightly!)

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[pt2537]

Hi Phil, sorry should have come back to you earlier but things got chaotic and ive had so much going on

 

well for starter the default notice , it should start with IMPORTANT-YOU SHOULD READ THIS CAREFULLY

 

Default Notice served under 87(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 so it would stand out pretty clearly

 

with regards to your defence, at this moment, you have no proof that they have the required documents as set out in LAW and until you have the requested documents how do you know if you are liable to them for this debt,

 

the law sets out what a credit agreement must contain to be legally enforceable and the consequences of it not complying is that they are not able to get a court to order that you should pay!!

 

thats the basics of it anyway.

 

until you get all the documents in the CPR request you truely dont know if you can defend or not so its best to defend IMHO on the basis that they have yet to supply the documents

 

i hope this makes sense, you dont have to give a reason for defending at this stage, we will cover that in the Defence which we can work on

 

 

regards

 

paul

[MR2Phil]

Ok, thanks for your continued help. In an ideal world I'd just pay it off to get them off my case...this stuff just tends to take over everything else, huh?

 

I am just about to go ahead and tell them I intend to defend the whole amount. I have 14 days from Date of Issue to do this...which takes me up to 10th December. If I hold onto my Alans for a bit and submit my response later do I get the 28 days from that point? Is it worth doing that or just getting it done now?

 

EDIT: Oh, I reckon I may have received one of those letters...but I've always seen them as threats before and they've been happy to reset the warning when I've paid an amount...but this time they didn't...I hate myself for being so bloody stupid but things just got put aside...

[pt2537]

right well just because you may have had one of them letters dont mean that it was nor does it mean that it was in the correct form required by law so lets no worry too much at this stage

 

with regards to the defence, i would double check the time limits with the court just to be sure. they should confirm your time frames for you

[pt2537]

Ok, thanks for your continued help. In an ideal world I'd just pay it off to get them off my case...this stuff just tends to take over everything else, huh?

 

I am just about to go ahead and tell them I intend to defend the whole amount. I have 14 days from Date of Issue to do this...which takes me up to 10th December. If I hold onto my Alans for a bit and submit my response later do I get the 28 days from that point? Is it worth doing that or just getting it done now?

 

EDIT: Oh, I reckon I may have received one of those letters...but I've always seen them as threats before and they've been happy to reset the warning when I've paid an amount...but this time they didn't...I hate myself for being so bloody stupid but things just got put aside...

 

NOW then,

 

if you receive a Default Notice it should give you a period of time in which you have ot remedy the breach of contract.

 

now if you pay within the time frame they ask the default is remedied and no longer relevent, so they would have had to send you a new default notice.

[MR2Phil]

Ok....I think I could probably get the money together by mid January.....but that's obviously past my time frame. I had half a mind to phone the solicitors and explain that I am happy to pay but want time to do so and to not go through the courts...I expect you to shoot this idea out of the water!

[pt2537]

Hi Phil,

 

the only problem is that if they agreed to such an offer, you really cant trust them to discontinue the legal action if you accept what they said they and forget about court it is concieveable that they could file for a default judgment whihc would hten mean they would have a CCJ against

 

its something you may want to try but and i stress the BUT unless you recieve a Notice of Discontinuance treat it as proceeding as normal

[pt2537]

Lets also look at the fact that their behaviour has hardly been reasonable now has it? a court claim out of the blue is hardly the right thing to do is it, also, lets look at the figures they are quoting for a minute.

 

are they correct? how do you know for sure, have they supplied you copies of your statements to confirm this? at the end of the day it seems you are just taking their word as to what they say you owe

 

its up to you at the end of the day what you do Phil i can only advise you on your position as you stand here today.

 

regards

paul

[MR2Phil]

Yeah, and I really appreciate you taking the time to help me on this, Paul. I'm just a bit worried, as you can imagine. I will wait a bit longer to acknowledge as I have 14 days from 26th (or is that 5 days after the 26th to be served?). Either way, I'll treat it as 26th to be on the safe side. I have asked for all the documents etc (as advised) so I'll wait and see what happens. IF they have all the douments necessary to proceed against me perhaps I can then appeal to their better nature?! JUST when I thought I was getting myself straight......

[pt2537]

Yeah, and I really appreciate you taking the time to help me on this, Paul. I'm just a bit worried, as you can imagine. I will wait a bit longer to acknowledge as I have 14 days from 26th (or is that 5 days after the 26th to be served?). Either way, I'll treat it as 26th to be on the safe side. I have asked for all the documents etc (as advised) so I'll wait and see what happens. IF they have all the douments necessary to proceed against me perhaps I can then appeal to their better nature?! JUST when I thought I was getting myself straight......

Hi phil, totally understandable mate,

 

let me try and help you put your mind at rest,

 

here a thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/119530-what-would-you-do-5.html#post1261775

 

for you to have a look over, it goes to show that we do win some:-)

 

however i think at this stage of things youve got little or nothing to lose, you have the right to have the documents shown to you so you can see that their claims are legitimate and that the amount they claim is indeed what you owe

 

Regards

paul

[AndyOrch]

"I will wait a bit longer to acknowledge as I have 14 days from 26th (or is that 5 days after the 26th to be served?). Either way, I'll treat it as 26th to be on the safe side."

 

 

 

Hi Phil

You have till the 14th Dec to file your A.O.S I would recommend a call to the court just to check,phone number is top right of Summons, tiny print.

Court staff are quite helpful and will advise.As you quite rightly state serves no purpose in acknowledging too early the time frame remains the same to submit your defence and offers you the opportunity to keep them guessing and play them at their own mindgames.I would recommend say 12th Dec.

They will no doubt be watching M.C.O.L in eager anticipation to see if you intend to defend or not and i would strenously advise you to defend in full.Anything less will only give rise to them hoping to attain a S/Judgement.If the ball was on the other foot dont you suspect they would do same!!!

 

 

 

 

Regards

Andy

[MR2Phil]

Cheers Paul and Andy! Paul, I've just read through that link you gave me...excellent result for Rosie! Andy, ok I will leave it for a few more days then...let them sweat! Ha ha!

[pt2537]

Hi Phil,

 

i think it would be prudent if you havent already done so just to check with the court what time frames you have to follow. the last thing you want is not to submit a document because you are out of time

 

im glad you had a chance to read rosies thread as its a good example of what weve already advised

 

the thing we must always be mindful of though is that sometimes credit agreements do turn up and if this happens then we can look at the next step if this happens.

 

 

still at this stage all we can do is wait and see what they send

 

 

regards

paul