URGENT LEGAL HELP REQUIRED ...plz advise.

[tomterm8]

- Mr Z then rents the property from Mr Y

.

 

According to the landlord, Mr Z had not signed the contract yet. So he hadn't actually rented the place.

[MrShed]

True, fair point - but doesnt change the point of view of Mr Z. And it should be noted that a tenancy is not created by the signing of a contract, but the actions that occur - ie the taking of rent, acquiring of keys, and taking possession of the property, whether or not there is a signed contract, would in fact create a tenancy - just a verbal one.

[MrShed]

By the way, nice to see the mods and site helpers straying over to the dark side of the forums, stumbling into landlord and tenant - we dont see your kind very often over here!!

[tomterm8]

By the way, nice to see the mods and site helpers straying over to the dark side of the forums, stumbling into landlord and tenant - we dont see your kind very often over here!!

 

Believe it or not, I have actually aquired the 4,000 pages of law books I need to read to learn tenancy law.

 

I may understand this by christmas... 2010.

[Bigmac versus]

Excellent explanation im sure, but one that is wasted on me as i got lost at y who moved in after renting to both x and z yet didnt know of x's position.

[MrShed]

Oops sorry, that should be Mr Z moving in

[MrShed]

Tom, its not as daunting as it first looks, dont worry! Most of it is pretty much common sense. Good luck with it though, and us here on the forums are only a PM away if you get stuck

[Bigmac versus]

Ok got you now, but what about Mr A then who Mr X is in the process of selling the business to and has a draft contract with.

 

So Mr X rents from Mr Y

Mr X notifies Mr Y he is selling business

Mr X sells business to Mr A

Meanwhile Mr Y rents shop to Mr Z without any contract or notice to Mr X who has 5 year contract.

Mr Z has removed goods whilst without a contract for the premises

Mr X has found his shop has had locks changed, goods removed and damaged by mr Z who has no contract.

 

 

Soicitor required I think that the contract will reveal who is in the right and wrong.

[MrShed]

Dont get me wrong, the tenancy/sale of business is a seperate issue completely. My brief illustration was only to do with the damaged property. It really does depend upon the contract

[Guest littlesally]

I just can't see how a landlord (Y) can rent out to someone else (Z) while there is a 5 year contract in place with X.

Or how Z can remove anything without a contract, or even that Y could remove things as the contract with X has not been terminated.

 

Surely this can not be legal or ethical?

I also can't see what X has done wrong

 

Sally x

[MrShed]

OK hang on - just to clarify

 

- My point above was more to clarify the innocence of Zs position, not to explain Ys actions.

- Z has a contract - it is verbal. Z has no knowledge of the contract with X, certainly has no contract himself with X, and as such has no requirement to not touch the possessions of X.

- X has done one big thing wrong - he is in rent arrears. The implications of this are unclear without the details of the relevant term from the contract. However, it is certainly not beyond the realms of possibility that the rent arrears have rendered the contract effectively null and void.

 

As a point of note, I try not to get into the "ethical/moral" side - it just muddies the waters. I stick to the legal perspective, as this is at the end of the day the only one that actually means anything.

[Bigmac versus]

Yes Mrshed thats how ive have read the situation.

Mr A would blame Mr X

Mr X would blame Mr Z

Mr Z would blame Mr Y

The problems between Mr X and Mr Y and indeed the contract because it could be terminated if arrears reach a certain amount which could explain why Mr Y has went in this direction as advised by his solicitor.

[MrShed]

I guess its a waiting game now to see if the OP is a ghost poster, or if he actually returns

[Bigmac versus]

They had better return, lol.

Thx again.

[Guest littlesally]

Ok was just checking I was following correctly

Will leave this to you as I have no idea about it, sorry

 

Sally x