Rossendales Final Reminder, I need time

[Crutey]

Fair point, but the way i understand it if they can demonstrate they have fairly incurred those fees and charges in collection of the balance they are entitled to persue them whether the ctax is paid or not.

 

Also, Bailiff firms use your payment to address their charges first and then the ctax so that they can guarantee they get their fees whatever happens. Right or wrong thats the way they work.

 

Dont get me wrong im not suggesting for one second they are right and you are wrong. I would have the Council thoroughly scrutinise the charges they have levied and refuse to pay them until you and the Council are fully satisfied they have been legally incurred.

 

Once thig i would question is if they are charging fees for each order. Did they do a seperate levy for the charges relating to each order? If not suggest they only carried out one levy fee and you will only agree to pay one.

 

If they attend with a van to collect and charge you a van fee they can only do this once, not once per order.

 

These are just some tools to arm you for the fight ahead. Im in no way having a go at you. If you dont agree witht the fees after all that, pay the council direct on their website and ignore the bailiff, its not legal but it may give them the idea your not worth their time for the amount of fees in question.

[chris600uk]

Yes that's what really got in amongst me - their idea that they could charge 3 times for just one visit.

 

The visit fees, and levy fees I listed earlier were all from the same visit/actions, and worse, two of them 751 & 752 are for the same address. So they've actually been to my house 3 times and made 9 charges out of it.

 

To add insult to injury; when they attempted to levy on the car, the levy form (incomplete, no signature from me) had the same car details duplicated on each one.

 

When I saw that the money we did pay back in August, simply got knocked off their own bill, it made me more determined than ever that if I could possibly prevent it they wouldn't get the chance again.

[tomtubby]

The matter of multipule fees has the subject of complaints to courts just recently.

 

This is clear. The visits took place at the same day. They carried out one levy.

 

They can charge ONE VISIT FEE and just ONE LEVY FEE.

 

That is it.

[chris600uk]

:D:D:D:D:D

Yes!

 

Thankyou tomtubby!

 

 

 

The only lingering question is this - is the levy fee legal and are they entitled to it?

 

After all, they turned up at the house on August 3rd, saw a car in the driveway and decided to make a levy, posted it through the letterbox and went away. They didn't know it wasn't mine, but they soon will.

No one was in, so they didn't gain entry or get a signature on a walking possesion agreement.

 

Am I right in thinking they had no right to make a levy charge?

[Crutey]

One thing you have to watch tho, the difference between a levy and a walking possession. You dont have to sign a levy for them to levy. You sign a walking possession which becomes an agreement between you and the bailiff that should you fail to pay in accordance with the terms of the agreement those goods which are in his possession as security on the agreement he is entitled to uplift.

 

I havent exactly quoted the regs word for word so feel free to correct me if im wrong.

[chris600uk]

I wouldn't dream of it Crutey, but how can I find out if I actually owe the levy fee or not?

 

Chris.

[Crutey]

If you give me a day i can probably quote you the section from the local government finance act regarding levy of distress lol.

[TideTurner]

Hi Chris,

 

Going back to post #16, three charges per day is excessive, given they would have been in the same area, and had no contact with you. Check out the Bailiffs. It is likely they are glorified DCA's. Strike a deal DIRECTLY with the Council.

 

They have clearly demonstrated that the methods used for recovery were a simple cost accumulator, and simply over inflate any debt due.

 

If the Bailiff's try to recover, refer them to the Council. Anybody making these charges will have to justify them, and you will then pass the argument for any costs back to the Council and the Bailiffs.

 

Also, write a letter to the Council and tell them that the reason you believe that much of the overdue CTax is not being recouped because any payments made are paid directly to their collection agents first, who gets first cut, and that the necessary middleman appears to be abusing their position with unnecessary multiple charges.

 

You are therefore reluctant to deal with their agents and would seek a reasonable solution given your circumstances.

 

Take the CTax minus the REASONABLE costs and make them a payment offer you can afford.

 

Tide

[chris600uk]

That'd be great, thank you; I want to be on solid ground if I'm going to firmly refuse to pay them.

 

On the other hand they may be entitled, and if they are - they'll only get ONE payment!

 

 

Chris.

[Crutey]

Bear in mind that regs stipulate that you cannot offset Council Tax against monies you feel the Council owe you ore services you feel you have not rec'd. I would never suggest paying less than the balance of Council Tax due as your idea of a settlment as this is a statutory charge.

[chris600uk]

That's a good idea, I think I'll do that.

 

And as for the Council tax debt itself; well, I'm going to ask the council to let me pay this year off in installments, and pay next years by direct debit. So no, I can't afford to mess them about over the liability order amounts.

 

Chris

[chris600uk]

From Castlepoints website - council tax faqs

 

Bailiff/Enforcement Office FAQ's

 

 

What if I don't answer the door for the Bailiff / Enforcement Officer?

 

The Bailiff / Enforcement Officer can 'levy' on (remove) any property of yours outside the home such as a car. They have to take appropriate action to ensure that the vehicle is yours and has no outstanding Hire Purchase.

 

 

 

I know it doesn't answer my question, but it gives me hope.

 

 

 

Chris.

[Crutey]

Basically thats sayin yes they can take your car, so long as they know its yours clean and clear. If its on finance you dont own it so they cant take it.

[TideTurner]

Chris / Crutney,

 

Have a look at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs/44284-bailiff-discussion-moved-hijacked.html?highlight=bailiffs

 

You have plenty of rights.

 

Tide

[chris600uk]

here's an update.

 

I've heard back from the Council, they have given me the precise figure that I owe them for the bills that are currently with the bailiffs.

 

£3315.48.

 

It feels like a siege, a bit stuffy sometimes not being able to leave windows and doors open, and stressing every time my family open them.

The front doors become a bit like checkpoint charlie, the postman must think we're nuts because we check him out through the other windows before opening the door to him - just to make sure he really is what he says he is.

It can't be pleasant for the family being given regular peptalks by me, on what actions to take if the bailiffs call, and being reminded of what can happen if we are less than ultra vigilant.

We've got leaflets to handout to the bailiffs, leaflets to handout to the Police (if they get involved).

I wish my dogs could read.

 

Rossendales say I owe them £3616.48 and they're sending a van to remove my goods.

 

I plan to write challenging their fees, and warn them that they'll get no more than I believe they are legally entitled to, ie 24.50 for the 1st day no matter how many accounts they brought, £18.50 for the 2nd visit, and nothing for the levy fee on a car I didn't own.

 

Any comments gratefully received,

 

hope my posts help someone.

 

Chris.

[chris600uk]

Update:

Here's the text of the letter that I'm planning to send by email first, followed up by a hard copy sent next day recorded delivery.

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re: xxxxxxxxx Client reference xxxxxxxxx

Please understand that I am fully aware of my rights and you will not

gain entry to my home under any circumstances to levy goods

I know the fees allowed under statute and when these fees can be applied.

 

In my letter to you dated 25th September 2007 I asked you for a full breakdown of exactly what you say I owe you in total, detailing what it’s for, and what addresses they relate to and the dates.

I appreciate that you might be unable to supply information about how the liability figure was arrived at, but I have discovered in your reply dated 9th October 2007 that you have listed a charge for a levy fee dated 3rd August 2007 which concerns a vehicle xxxxxxx that was parked in my driveway around that time.

This vehicle is not my property, it is not registered to me; it is the property of a friend who parked it there for safety while he went on holiday.

 

So there can be no levy fee because the levy fee you have charged is ILLEGAL.

I am entitled to challenge fees for a levy upon goods that are not my property.

Please deduct this unlawful charge from your outstanding fee record.

 

Please understand that at no time have I refused to pay my Council Tax arrears

The debts subject to the liability orders will be cleared very shortly

The outstanding fees that you are legally entitled to will also be paid

I am sending a copy of this letter to LiverpoolCity Council

 

Please supply the following information about your account xxxxxxx; the total debt on this account, what each charge is for with the date each visit took place, the name of the bailiff, the court at which he was certified and the name of the bailiff who attended on each date (please provide receipts where necessary).

 

Yours faithfully,

Once again, any comments good or bad are welcomed, and if everyone agrees with it maybe it'll help another poor sod in my predicament.

 

Regards,

 

Chris.

[ThisVeryMoment]

When you say you need time, haven't you already had it? What would you like another 10 years?

 

I think it is time top pay what should have been paid a VERY long time ago!

[chris600uk]

Ok, here's another update.

 

This is the text of the next letter I'm about to send to Rsndls, they haven't replied to my last one yet, although I know that they've had it, because I sent it by email first and then by hard copy recorded delivery.

 

Re: xxxxxxx, xxxxxxx Client reference xxxxxxx, xxxxxxx

Please understand that I am fully aware of my rights and you will not

gain entry to my home under any circumstances to levy goods

I know the fees allowed under statute and when these fees can be applied.

 

Dear Sir/madam,

I received your NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS for the above accounts dated 4th December 2007.

You have not gained peaceful entry to my home; therefore you have no right of entry.

You are within your rights to drive around in a van if you wish, but you may not charge me for that, even if you call at my home.

 

I have discovered that you are not entitled to charge for any more than 2 visits to my home and that you are only allowed to charge ONCE for each visit.

So on the 10th May 2007 when you came to my home you became entitled to one payment of £24.50 (see note below) covering ALL accounts you were dealing with that day.

On the 15th May when you came to my home again you became entitled to a further payment of £18.50 (see note below), covering ALL accounts you were dealing with that day.

This means that you will be receiving a payment for £43.00 less the £10.00 we have already paid to you making a final payment to you of £33.00.

 

I am concerned that by charging for each account on the same visit you have charged fees that are EXCESSIVE and that your bailiff has levied ILLEGALLY, unfairly reducing my ability to pay my Council Tax arrears.

If you believe that the charges listed in your letters dated 9th October 2007 are legitimate, I would ask you to provide the name of the bailiff, the court at which he was certified, the date you believe the visit took place and what the fee consists of (please provide receipts where necessary).

 

I have not refused to pay the Council Tax arrears or fees that you are legally entitled to.

I am sending a copy of this letter to xxxxxxxxx City Council

Please reply within 14 days, confirming that your records have been amended.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

Note:

Your literature seems to be out of date, so when researching your charges I used:

 

 

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION & ENFORCEMENT) REGULATIONS 1992

AS AMENDED BY THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION & ENFORCEMENT) (AMENDMENT) (NO.2) REGULATIONS 1993,

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION & ENFORCEMENT) (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS 1998,

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION AND ENFORCEMENT) (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) (ENGLAND) REGULATIONS 2003

AND THE COUNCIL TAX AND NON-DOMESTIC RATING (AMENDMENT) (ENGLAND) REGULATIONS 2006

SCHEDULE 5 CHARGES CONNECTED WITH DISTRESS

1. The sum in respect of charges connected with the distress which may be aggregated under Regulation 45(2)

shall be as set out in the following Table-

(1) Matter connected with distress

(2) Charge

A For making a visit to premises with a view to

Levying distress (where no levy is made) -

 

(i) where the visit is the first or only

such visit): £24.50

 

(ii) where the visit is the second such

visit: £18.00

 

 

Once again, if anyone has any comment good or bad, I'd appreciate it, otherwise it's going to be sent off Tuesday morning.

 

Hope its useful to someone else.

 

Chris.

[tomtubby]

Just a quick note. The amounts stated above are WRONG. The statutory fee scale provides for a 1st visit at £24.50 and a 2nd visit at £18.00 NOT £18.50.

 

So many local authorities and indeed bailiff companies are continuing using the wrong fee scale.

[chris600uk]

Thanks tomtubby.

 

It's amazing, I've searched and that was the only one I could find that seemed to be up to date, quite frustrating really.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

[chris600uk]

Found it!

 

The Council Tax and Non-Domestic Rating (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2006

 

With your help I'm getting better at this.

 

Chris:)

[tomtubby]

Will post full details shortly

[tomtubby]

Here are the correct and up to date Scale of Fees for the collection of Council Tax where you will also see full details of the number of visits and the amount that should be charged by the bailiff [ATTACH]1648[/ATTACH]

[chris600uk]

Brilliant! If you've no objection, I'll use that instead of my page 2.

 

That should make the b*ggers pay attention.

 

Maybe they'll leave me alone?

 

Can they, would they levy on Christmas decorations?

 

We've got a lovely outside tree and a sort of arbor (goes over the gate) that my wife wants to me to put up.

 

I know, I know, it's pathetic, there are lots of people with worse problems.

 

Still, I was only wondering.....

 

 

Chris.

[jane1703]

Good Luck Chris, we need to stop these bully boys - keep fighting and thank you for supporting me when it counted.

Keep fighting the ****ers

xxx