Rossendales Final Reminder, I need time

[chris600uk]

Thanks jane, it's surprising how far just a little support goes at times like these.

 

And on this website we get much more than that.

 

Chris.

[chris600uk]

Hi folks, just had a reply from R's about their NOTICE OF DISTRESS dated 3rd August 2007; it was unsigned, no entry was gained, but they listed the registration mark of a friends car that was parked in the driveway while he went on holiday.

I emailed them and wrote by recorded mail that it wasn't my car and the levy was therefore invalid.

 

"Thank you for your correspondence,

We note that you have indicated the vehicle listed on the Notice of Distress does not belong to you. Unfortunately, we cannot accept this as sufficient proof that the vehicle is not yours. Therefore we require a Copy of the Vehicle Registration Document V5 supported by proof of purchase or alternatively a copy of your Insurance Certificate for our records.

Failure to provide these will result in further action being taken"

 

Now my question is this:

i) I thought that after 14 days anything listed on a Notice of Distress was automatically released.

ii) I've made a statement that the car isn't mine - surely that should be enough shouldn't it? I'm not keen to start asking my friends and relatives who might just be visiting for they V5's and purchase receipts, or giving them details of my car insurance.

 

Any thoughts anyone?

 

Chris.

[bligpants]

Therefore we require a Copy of the Vehicle Registration Document V5 supported by proof of purchase or alternatively a copy of your Insurance Certificate for our records.

 

Any thoughts anyone?

 

Chris.

 

It's an unreasonable request; you cannot be held responsible for the documentation of other people's property, whether it's on somewhere you're responsible for that property or not.

 

If they want to levy a distress, they should ensure that what they're going to levy distress on is actually yours to be distressed.

 

Had you actually "refused to sign" - see earlier in the thread then you'd have had a chance to tell 'em the car wasn't yours. The bailiff failed to ensure ownership of the vehicle before attempting to levy distress. I don't have any rules to hand, but I'm pretty sure that will count somewhere as being negligent at the very least and worthy of a form 4 complaint.

[chris600uk]

Ok next update, in response to R's letter I'm planning to send them this:

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re: xxxxxxx Client reference xxxxxxx

Please understand that I am fully aware of my rights and you will not

gain entry to my home under any circumstances to levy goods

I know the fees allowed under statute and when these fees can be applied.

 

In your letter dated 13th December 2007 you are refusing to accept the vehicle listed on your unsigned Notice of Distress dated 3rd August 2007 is not my property. You say that if I fail to provide you with a copy of the Vehicle Registration Document V5 supported by proof of purchase or a copy of my Insurance Certificate for your records, you will proceed with further action. This is unreasonable because I explained in my letter dated 12th December why the car was in my driveway and:

 

i)I don’t have an Insurance Certificate for this vehicle. It’s not my car.

ii)Certified Bailiffs are perfectly capable of establishing who the registered keeper is (Vehicle and Excise Registration Act 1994)

iii)I am entitled to keep my financial affairs private within reason. I am not prepared to start explaining to my friends or family or anyone else who may have parked in my driveway or outside my house, or up to halfway across the road in front of my house, why I might need their logbooks and purchase invoices.

 

If you attempt to seize/remove the vehicle, the owner is likely to complain of theft of his vehicle, and subsequently take legal action agains yourselves and xxxxxxxxx City Council for Damages arising from Unlawful Distress. Surely it would be more sensible to accept that your Notice of Distress is invalid and so is the levy charge that you have listed.

Please understand that at no time have I refused to pay my Council Tax arrears

The debts subject to the liability orders will be cleared very shortly

The outstanding fees that you are legally entitled to will also be paid shortly

I am sending a copy of this letter to xxxxxxxxx City Council

 

 

Just like before if anyone thinks there's anything wrong with what I'm planning to write, or has any comments, please feel free.

Hopefully these letters will help someone else, as well as me.

 

Regards,

 

Chris.

[TideTurner]

here's an update.

 

I've heard back from the Council, they have given me the precise figure that I owe them for the bills that are currently with the bailiffs.

 

£3315.48.

 

You need a complete breakdown of this

 

Rossendales say I owe them £3616.48 and they're sending a van to remove my goods.

 

There is a considerable rise in this 'claim'.

 

 

It feels like a siege, a bit stuffy sometimes not being able to leave windows and doors open

 

No problems there, Burglary is a criminal offence.

 

It can't be pleasant for the family being given regular peptalks by me, on what actions to take if the bailiffs call, and being reminded of what can happen if we are less than ultra vigilant.

 

You need to assure the family that nobody will be knocking regarding this, and that there is nothing to worry about (why have the whole house worrying when they can't gain access)?

 

The letter you posted needs a bit of work, and should be a lot shorter.

 

 

 

Rossendales

cc. xxx Council

 

Date:

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

RE: Client Ref xxxxxxxxx

 

I have contacted xx Council regarding your claim and correspondence, who have informed me that they are currently investigating.

 

I note that the amount claimed by the Council (which to date remains unclarified), and the amount claimed by yourselves differs immensely.

 

Council £3315.48

Rossendales £3616.48 (ADDITIONAL THREE HUNDRED AND ONE POUNDS)

 

Until I have received and accept any claim made, I am unable to deal directly with yourselves.

 

To my knowledge, I have never given my permission for my personal information to be passed to your organisation and would request that any information that you hold in whatever format which includes my personal information be returned to the source and destroyed from your records.

 

I do not expect to hear from you further unless I am first notified by xxx Council that any claim or debt has been transferred to your organisation legally.

 

Yours sincerely

 

xxx

 

-----------

 

You then need a complete breakdown from the Council

 

xxx Council

 

Date:

 

Dear Sir / Madam

 

RE: Ref xxx

 

I have recently been contacted by Debt Collection Agents who claim to have been instructed by you, who have acted in a menacing and intimidatory manner.

 

Please provide a complete breakdown of any amounts you claim, including the dates, amounts and description of any unpaid amount. Until this is provided, I will consider any claim made by the Council or appointed agents wholly disputed.

 

I would point out that I was in receipt of benefits for the entire period for which Council Tax is claimed, and believe the DWP / Benefits Office are liable for any amounts claimed.

 

I would also be grateful if you would provide a copy of your letter of instruction to your agents, including the date of instruction and details of any authority upon which you relied when you provided my personal or financial information to Rossendales or any other third party.

 

Yours sincerely

[chris600uk]

Blimey! You get to the point don't you!

 

OK, letter to the council is going off today, and new much shortened letter is on it's way to R's.

 

As it happens the Council have since sent me a breakdown of dates outstanding balances, costs, benefits, etc.

 

The family have now got the idea about keeping the doors and windows shut, even the dogs get it, they love it, they don't get shouted at for going nuts at everyone who calls, and everything that moves.

 

I'll let you know what happens next,

 

thanks Tideturner,

 

Regards,

 

 

Chris.

[Markiemark1]

Firstly, the bad news. I don't see any reason why the "nice" xmas decorations if outside could not be levied upon.

 

But - most councils have a moratorium over xmas when they stop bailiffs calling. Might be worth trying to establish whether your local council has done this - as then you will know that no-one will be visiting.

 

RM

[maybelline]

I would recommend you involve the Local Government Ombudsman and state that you want the council to take the debt back, I am assuming you are paying the council anyway to show willing if needs be to a court and to them. the council can take the debt back and then the bailiff will not be involved at all, you were/are in receipt of carers allowance which sounds like you come into the 'vulnerable persons' category and I would bring attention to this fact immediately, as councils are supposed to have regard to this before instructing a bailiff. I will post a link.

 

The Local Government Ombudsman

Department for Constitutional Affairs - Enforcement - National Standards for Enforcement Agents

[maybelline]

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 02 Bailiffs And Council Tax

[ThisVeryMoment]

For gawd's sake stop making excuses and trying to get out of it. Just pay your 10 year old debt NOW!!!!!!!!!l

[chris600uk]

I've spoken to the Council and although they agreed to review the accounts, they won't take it back.

 

They have agreed that if I can show that I have overpaid them at any point they will return the money to me.

 

They have agreed that they will accept a payment schedule for the upcoming debt that isn't the subject of a liability order - yet.

 

The money I was relying on to pay off the liability orders hasn't become available yet, I thought I was going to get it before Christmas, but now it looks as if I'll have to wait until about the 1st or 2nd week in January, it's nervewracking.

 

So come Jan 2nd 2008, we'll be under siege again.

 

That's why my heading says, "I need time".

 

Regards,

 

 

Chris

[ThisVeryMoment]

You need time??? The debts are from 1997, 1999, and 2004!!!

 

How much more time do you expect?!

[vandermerwe]

Good morning Chris 600.

 

Gee, you're a tenacious b*****d aren't you? A bit like my dachshund with a bone the size of his head which he slowly, but surely, grinds away at until there's nothing left!

 

I don't have any specific advice to give, regrettably, but thought you might just appreciate a bit of moral support in your fight for what is your right - and, indeed, the rights of all of us.

 

I am old enough to remember the youngsters who fought and gave their lives for our freedom from oppression so many years ago and it's good to know such people still exist in our dumbed down country.

 

I wish you the very best of good fortune with your fight - but take the next few days to relax with your family and try and put the present issues aside over Christmastide, and I wish you all the Blessings of Christmas and support in the New Year.

 

With every good wish.

 

Vandermerwe.

[maybelline]

I've spoken to the Council and although they agreed to review the accounts, they won't take it back.

 

They have agreed that if I can show that I have overpaid them at any point they will return the money to me.

 

They have agreed that they will accept a payment schedule for the upcoming debt that isn't the subject of a liability order - yet.

 

The money I was relying on to pay off the liability orders hasn't become available yet, I thought I was going to get it before Christmas, but now it looks as if I'll have to wait until about the 1st or 2nd week in January, it's nervewracking.

 

So come Jan 2nd 2008, we'll be under siege again.

 

That's why my heading says, "I need time".

 

Regards,

 

 

Chris

 

Hi Chris, sorry to hear you are having so much trouble with the council not budgeing and Rossendales, I was in the same position and council not budging but the LGO helped me, I would urge you speak to them as councils do have to take some of the responsibility in this, liability order or not, they can take it back. the only purpose of a bailiff is to ensure they get payment and you are offering them the money. I would also report the bailiff if the fees are incorrect and you are being harrassed in any way :) good luck.

[chris600uk]

and a merry christmas to you too vandermerwe!

 

I wish that to everyone, the bailiffs and council staff as well.

 

Maybelline, of course you are right - I'll get on to that now, and let you know what happens,

 

Regards,

 

Chris.

[ThisVeryMoment]

I to am old enough to remember the youngsters who fought and gave their lives for our freedom from oppression so many years ago. Most of them paid their debts. Its sad to know such people no longer exist in our dumbed down country.

[chris600uk]

Update!

 

Reply from R's as follows:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

xxxxxxxxx City Council C Tax

 

Thank you for your correspondence,

 

You state that some of your goods belong to a third party. Before we can relinquish possession of these goods it is essential that we receive a third party claim preferably an affidavit from the third party concerned. You must appreciate that in the absence of a ligitimate claim within seven days, we must proceed with possible removal of the goods belonging to a third party. If you are in any doubt as to your rights you should consult a solicitor as a matter of urgency.

 

 

So folks, what do you think of that?

 

Are they really suggesting that they are preparing to take goods not belonging to me or have I read it wrong?

 

Regards,

 

Chris.

[ThisVeryMoment]

Yes they are.

 

You must appreciate that in the absence of a ligitimate claim within seven days, we must proceed with possible removal of the goods belonging to a third party.

[tomtubby]

It must be remembered that bailiffs can presume that goods belong to you.

 

If the bailiff has good reason to suppose that goods belong to you then he can remove them. The onus of proof is on you....not the bailiff to prove ownership.

 

A Statutory Declaration is all that is required to be sent to the company. If you need help with the wording, please do let me know.

[chris600uk]

That would really help, thanks

 

Chris

[chris600uk]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DRAFT STATUTORY DECLARATION

 

 

 

 

To: Rxxxxxxxxxs, Hxxxxxn Mill, xxx xxxx xxx Road, Rxxxxxxxxxl, Rxxxxxdale, Lancashire, xxx xxx

 

 

I (my full name)

 

of (my full address)

 

Do solemnly and sincerely declare that:

 

I have am not now and have never been at any time the Registered Keeper or Owner of the Blue Ford Focus vehicle registration mark XXXXXXX.

 

And I make this solemn declaration conscientiously believing the same to be true and by virtue of the provisions of the Statutory Declarations Act 1835 and Section 5 of The Perjury Act 1911.

 

 

Signature:

 

 

Declared at: (office address)

 

On the.......... day of ...............two thousand and..........

 

Before me: (the solicitor or commissioners name)

 

A Commissioner for Oaths, or Notary Public/Justice of the Peace/Solicitor having the powers conferred on a Commissioner for Oaths.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How's that then?

[tomtubby]

This is very good, and should be accepted.

 

However, many companies will insist that this document should instead come from the owner of the vehicle and not from you.

[chris600uk]

Funny you should say that, and it did occur to me that they might come back with that objection.

 

I see it this way:

 

The problem is that they're trying to charge me for a levy on that car.

My gripe is the levy fee and the threat of action using that levy as some sort of justification.

 

Although if they actually tried to clamp or remove the Ford Focus after I've repeatedly warned them that it belongs to a third party, then that's another matter. And I've already asked the DVLA to provide proof that that car has never ever been registered to me.

The chances of it being at my address at the same time as the bailiffs are very very small indeed, it only visits occasionally and stays for a short time.

 

I'm not sure that anyone would visit me ever again if they thought there was a chance they might lose their car as a result!

 

" Hi, please come to dinner, oh by the way make sure you bring your V5, proof of purchase, and insurance certificate so I can take copies; and before you go there's an affidavit form to fill in before you leave!" RSVP

 

 

 

If you see what I mean,

 

Chris.

[ThisVeryMoment]

I'm not sure that anyone would visit you again if they knew you never bothered to pay your Council Tax! Why should the rest of us subsidise you?

[chris600uk]

Happy New Year to all, and here's another update.

 

At 11.45am this morning I had the Statutory Declaration witnessed.

It was an old fashioned procedure, felt a bit like stepping back in time.

 

I had to take their well used bible in my right hand, read a declaration from their laminated script, signed my declaration, then watched the Commissioner/solicitor sign and stamp her bit, and paid them £5.00.

 

I've scanned and emailed a copy to Rossendales, and am sending a hard copy by post.

 

Hope that helps someone,

 

Regards,

 

Chris.