Putting the record straight

[green_and_mean]

I on the other hand would just like to point out that certain people have very few posts and those that they do have seem to be in support of people pushing through the myth that PPC's ,even one bloke sitting in a coffee shop in wolverhampton ( 2 sugars alex) ,are valued members of the community

providing a needed service and behaving so altruistically that it's excusable to lie, cheat and steal. IMHO

 

 

You have made 14 posts so does that include you!?

[electron99]

Electron,Perky et al

 

there is a very simple way to see mine or the defence of anyone

suitably knowledgeable to show you up for what you are.

 

You take me to court !! That means that when you get a letter back

that shows you that we mean business, you actually follow through

with your threats. Then when you lose, you appeal to a higher court,

then when you lose again you discover that you have no mates left

at the BPA because they're all signing on.

 

What on earth are you on about.How can I,a computer engineer take you to court for a parking ticket:???:

 

I am quite happy to accept that notices from a PPC are invoices, and possibly unenforceable.However,I am not prepared to accept, without proof, that a judge,trying a case where both parties attended, will reach the same conclusion.Judges are notorious for their interpretation of the law, and sometimes come up with strange verdicts.

It does seem that some armchair lawyers here are of the opinion that if you don't take what they say as gospel,then by definition,you must be a PPC owner,traffic warden,baliff, debt collector etc.

All I am asking is for transcripts of cases where the judges agree with you,and then I will go away happy, and continue to park carefully and with respect to other people's property.

[green_and_mean]

It does seem that some armchair lawyers here are of the opinion that if you don't take what they say as gospel,then by definition,you must be a PPC owner,traffic warden,baliff, debt collector etc.

 

Don't take it personal everyone thinks I'm a traffic warden cos I don't think every parking ticket ever given out is illegal.

Its nice to see the pepipoo crowd pop over to grace our humble forum tho they must be bored or something?

[Muggerbee]

You have made 14 posts so does that include you!?

 

Not really, if you ask your carer to read the post again then look at the posting stats for some of the contributors you'll notice that you all

have the same habit of supporting each others arguments, which coincidentally are counter to those of the HUGE majority.

 

Given that the people we are talking about here are the sort of unscrupulous lowlifes that you would expect to troll in the forlorn

hope of scaring another 60 quid out some poor old ladies pension, then i'm sure you can appreciate the healthy dose of scepticism.

 

As background, I registered here for background research into the parasitical banks from whom I claimed back some large sums of money using only 1 of the potential rebuttals to the claims of your buddies.

 

I Came back over here at the behest of Mr Perky88 as a result of his willingness to gloat and crow over what he assumed was a victory for the ticket and clamp brigade on a forum populated by some very bright minds in this field and he came a cropper.

 

Electron

 

It's very hard to get a transcript of something that consists only of a judge saying due to the failure to appear of the claimant I award in favour of the defendant, hence the open invite for any one of these cowboys to pursue one of the many tickets they have placed on my vehicles.

 

However, once the OFT have finished with the banks maybe your mates could get them to rally to your cause and support you in their holy crusade purge the evil motorist of the sin of avarice by siphoning their wallets ?

[Bookworm]

***PLEASE LET'S KEEP THINGS POLITE!*** (I was going to say "civil", but thought better of it!

)

 

There's opinions for and opinions against, and we can learn from both, please let's not resort to insults and accusations, or it will end with the thread getting locked, and I happen to think we can learn a lot more by discussion. ;-)

 

 

.

[electron99]

 

It's very hard to get a transcript of something that consists only of a judge saying due to the failure to appear of the claimant I award in favour of the defendant, hence the open invite for any one of these cowboys to pursue one of the many tickets they have placed on my vehicles.

 

 

This is the core of my worries.Many PPC's don't attend court,thus defendants win by default.This is a million miles away from having your arguments considered by a judge, disputed by the PPC and winning your case.One day Parking Companies will find that the number of people who contest their invoices increases dramatically, and for economic survival will have to increase the court cases,and attend them.People who thump their chests,say parking invoices are unenforceable, and then bury their heads in the sand, will one day find things have moved on.As a former Boy Sprout,I was taught to be prepared, and that means second guessing what the enemy will do next.This can only be done with concrete facts, and not regurgitated internet urban myths.

[Muggerbee]

OK, we've established that it's a civil matter not a criminal one, well from the PPCs view, so lets imagine this argument/discussion is up in front of a judge for him to decide, only thing is the apologists never turn up, what would you think his judgement would be on the balance of probabilities.

 

In every letter I write to a PPC I INVITE them to take me to court, none has, why not ?? those that have launched a claim have only turned up when they've received a laughable defence.. WHY ???

[Guest interesting]

this thread has got stupid, the original judgement has gone and it has turned into a slanging match originated mainly by muggerbee aimed towards green_and_mean, myself, electron99 and not forgetting perky.

Come on moderators sort it out.

[legaladviser]

Muggerbee makes reasonable points as far as I am concerned.

 

There will be no transcript of a defendant successfully winning a case (as a win is a win even if the claimant has not had the courage to turn up) until the PPC's submit themselves to the court (in a properly defended case) for judgement on the merits. Continually asking for a transcript here is pointless. The law however is totally clear and that is that any motorist will win with ease if he cares to research the cases in this area.

 

Now back to Pepipoo with me as to be honest I find the debate here a bad pastiche of Groundhog Day with several individuals constantly asking for transcripts and not bothering to listen to the answer.

[Muggerbee]

The original thread was a piece of self worshipping based on a fatally flawed judgement . As a matter of fact it should never have even

got as far as the bench due a huge error on Mr Perky88's part which has

gone unoticed by at least the clerk.

 

So it's really unrealistic for Him and any idolators or apologists for

his cause to expect any mercy in a forum whose function is to

promote and defend the RIGHTS of the consumer, especially when

"somehow" "someone" happens to join a specialist motoring law

forum and the 1st post is " Hey Perky is a legal god !!" or words to that effect.

 

He has brought this down on himself and anyone if tainted by association

feels that I am being spiteful, then That not my fault, PPC operators make their bed, you choose to lie in it then you'll get fleas too. The simple fact of the matter is that these operations will hound and terrorise anyone who

won't hit back, they are no better than muggers, apart from the fact that muggers seem to understand that they have no legal right to your wallet.

 

I have no sympathy for them, their business model, their modus operandi and especially not for companies that consist of 1 person sat on their butt drinking coffee while letting landowners think they have the resources of a huge company with legal right and might to support them. How many people do you need to con in a single transaction ? and if it's so socially acceptable why register your company to a PO Box number, why hide behind and 0871 number , why stick your tail between your legs and run when asked simple legal questions and most importantly for you lot,why leave your disciples to justify your actions and your law if you're so damn good ??

[Guest interesting]

Goodbye to lawyerman & co ...

[Guest perky88]

Ok, Seen many silly posts on here and just to confirm the status of our company.

 

It is unincorporated, it has 8 partners to which I am one (I have NEVER stated anything else).

 

We have 12 back office staff processing tickets (9 of these work remotely).

 

We dont need to hide behind incorporation, why would we want to/need to ??

 

We (togeter with other PPCs) pay towards 2 members of staff who look at appeals on our behalf (working away from office at home) - we find this the only way we can be as independant as possible in appeals. (you will also note we DO NOT ask people to pay for their appeal to be considered ... EVER !! - unlike some PPCs which I have openely slated)

 

I (and partners) often cancel tickets myself/ourselves that have obvious errors on, issued unfairly but ones we dont ALWAYS get referred.

 

The PO Box number is to manage post - 4 of our partners work out of the office and have appeals directed to them directly at different PO BOX numbers under the same company - it saves us time & money.

 

You cannot hide behind a PO BOX, 1 call to Royal Mail will always tell you where it is being delivered to (hardly takes a detective to discover that one out muggabee)

 

The 0871 is a national number, to which means everyone pays the same amount and we receive income from it (nothing wrong in that, we are a business and there to make money .. like any business)

 

It also means we can gain statistics on call volumes and remotely manage the number diversion - as a company who has invested heavily in IT etc.. it makes sense.

 

It also means that if 1 office is busy the 0871 provider can re-route the call automatically ... it can also re-route according to time/date and even a callers location.

 

 

As for our business model, I am not about to justify it to you (muggabee) - you are obviosly a person who takes delight in getting private parking tickets and sticking their 2 fingers up at landowners who pay a fortune for land and you think you can park there as some god given right ... what goes around comes around and one day you will come a cropper ... but that will be someone elses honour.

 

You obviously dont run a business/have land - in fact most of the day youve been posting to this site and finding out (in the most, incorrect) information about myself and other people - so I take it you're obviously a student, on the dole or just got too much time on your hands.

 

If you had bothered to look at my other postings previously, I am not stating I am some do gooder just always wanted to give a voice from the other side .. not asking for people to agree with me - but a view and constructive debate from BOTH sides is useful.

 

 

Your comments (muggabee) about not incorporating due to possibly not being able to ... are unfounded and totally untrue, togther with stating I am unable to get SIA registration because of my character ... you are on VERY questionable ground ... I would ask you to supply any evidence of this, but you will not be able to- an appology for indiciating I was would be too much to ask .. so I wont.

 

Since (muggabee) joined this whole thread has gone mad, and I will not be posting to it and hopefully those who hijacked it will go away back to the sites they came from.

 

 

Theory is great and I am sure some of the new thread hijackers (lawyernan, muggerbee) know for a fact they will defeat a PPC case in court, however the harsh reality is they cannot prove it ... I have proven we take cases to court and win .. they just state "if I did I would win" .. well "if I won the lottery I will win" - maybe I will, maybe I wont ... until it is tested then you can talk all you want .. but ONLY when you have definitive proof can you stand up and be counted and as yet .. you have none - thats a FACT .. 100%

 

As for the judgement, if you're a sole trader/partnership then you are clased as an organisation by the courts and not an individual - That is why all proceedings when issued are in the name of the company.

 

The judge always asks the position I (or a colleague) has in the company, and only partners ever attend court for cases - so the judgement is correct, no errors made.

 

Just 1 other clarification ... It is the county court, no bench ... just a district judge. (magistrates sit on the bench with the clerk advising them on legal issues) ... just in case you didnt know. (NO I DONT WANT A REPLY .. I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY YET ANOTHER ERROR IN YOUR POSTINGS)

 

Anyway, thats the last post I am making on this thread ... not for any reason in particullar ... Just with the thread as crazy as its got, I just think it will be lost.

[Muggerbee]

Goodbye to lawyerman & co ...

 

I'd really guess that depended on whether or not the forum moderators

felt my views were an attempt to subvert the rights of the consumers/

members by instilling fear into them by use of a dodgy court case in order

to line the pockets of a "trade" whose methodology is widely accepted to

be borderline legal at the best of times OR If my interest lie in defending the legal right of the aforementioned members/consumers to be harassed,

threatened, lied to and be manipulated by frankly transparent attempts to

get them to be nice little puppies and roll over.

 

Case in point, My xx year old mum parked with her wheels on the bay dividing line of a FREE car park on a wednesday morning. Is that worth 6 months of threatening letters or should she have paid the fair "charge" of 75 pounds. 2nd question is why did it stop when I said OK then, see you in court ?

[Muggerbee]

If you look back, you will see that I have never asserted that you personally are of bad character and I would never assert such a thing. To say that I would is frankly scandalous, I have asked questions as is my right.

 

And re the thread hijacking, the link was posted on the other forum

by someone from Wolverhampton, The IP was pinged ;-)

 

And yes it is a big IF, IF one of these protectors of the land wishes to

respond to anyone of several see you in court letters they receive from

our membership weekly and then turn up and defend it then we

may see an end to this sort of baseless attempt to frighten the little

people into paying up.

 

Remeber, not turning up is a judgement by default = a win the same

as having a defendant with no knowledge of the law is a win.

 

Still, with 8 partners and 12 staff you must have hundreds of these wins

to regale us with over the camp fire of an evening. I look forward to a super special PPC forum where you can all swap "sucess" stories.

 

OOps nearly forgot, No I'm not on the dole, I'm not a student, you could say I have independant means if it's of interest, but i do like to keep my hand in and it's nice to put something back rather than take ,take ,take.

And i do so apologise for mis stating where A DJ or recorder sits, hardly as fatal a legal error as some i've seen.

[neil24103]

OK, we've established that it's a civil matter not a criminal one, well from the PPCs view, so lets imagine this argument/discussion is up in front of a judge for him to decide, only thing is the apologists never turn up, what would you think his judgement would be on the balance of probabilities.

 

In every letter I write to a PPC I INVITE them to take me to court, none has, why not ?? those that have launched a claim have only turned up when they've received a laughable defence.. WHY ???

hi muggerbee.iagree i have told a ppc to take me to court over a out standing ticket (no reply as yet 3 weeks now)if they do i will i will be claiming my defence cost off them for my time around 100.00.

[botfaymit]

 

"Unauthorised removal or interference is an offence" - really? Against which statute law is it an offence to remove or 'interfere with' a piece of paper stuck on your car by an employee of a private company not operating under the RTA?

 

Just a couple of issues far more simple,

If I found it attached to my car, I would not touch it as I am not Authorised (or am I?) to remove or interfere with it.

 

Is 'pulling here to extract your parking charge notice' a term of the contract?,

How do I know it's mine to extract?,

What happens if I don't extract it?

What happens if someone commits the offence of removing it?

 

The few ppc's I have experience of, 'we' have not replied at all after a couple of unaknowledged letters they seem to go away.

 

 

botfaymit

[neil24103]

Just a couple of issues far more simple,

If I found it attached to my car, I would not touch it as I am not Authorised (or am I?) to remove or interfere with it.

 

Is 'pulling here to extract your parking charge notice' a term of the contract?,

How do I know it's mine to extract?,

What happens if I don't extract it?

What happens if someone commits the offence of removing it?

 

The few ppc's I have experience of, 'we' have not replied at all after a couple of unaknowledged letters they seem to go away.

 

 

botfaymit

ha ha you got em

[neil24103]

no private parking ticket is enforcable if defended properly FACT.

[Guest perky88]

no private parking ticket is enforcable if defended properly FACT.

 

and your legal basis .. past experiences of this are ?????

 

Just the case details by PM are OK . .I can get judgement details and blank out names to comply with rules

 

Just a note on here publicly to say you have done it .. I will confirm will prove it.

 

UNLESS you have it .. shut up ... FACT=FACT .... not "a bloke told me in the pub that xxxx" ..

 

What FACT do you have .. come one ... tell me .... After all a county court record is PUBLIC !!!! ....

[Muggerbee]

To be honest, I'd rather see the N1's relating to judgements made

[Guest perky88]

i do so apologise for mis stating where A DJ or recorder sits, hardly as fatal a legal error as some i've seen.

 

No .. but it does show, as on many of your posts, how many mistakes you make....

 

So ..If anyone wants to take his advice seriously ... see you at the bench .. sorry different court system/rules .. I am sure with such fundimental mistakes he knows what hes on about !!!

 

muggabee .. you can prove me wrong very easily .. and that is to show a case where a PPC has turned up and a defence has been given and the PPC has lost..

 

Its not rocket science .... all I want is 1 example to look at ... you can evade the question all you want .. but its only fair for you to back your knowledge/advice up with real FACTS ....

 

I did it .. so over to you .. PLEASE dont try and avoid it with silly answers ... Just 1 case .. Just 1 ... where the PPC did turn up, and a defence given according to your advice and the driver won...

 

What could be simpler .. you are of indenepnant means .. lots of time to waste in your life .. surely the internet or your vast (???) experience can give you that information ...

 

The gauntlet is there .... so show up or shut up ... SIMPLE !!!!!

[Muggerbee]

No .. but it does show, as on many of your posts, how many mistakes you make....

 

So ..If anyone wants to take his advice seriously ... see you at the bench .. sorry different court system/rules .. I am sure with such fundimental mistakes he knows what hes on about !!!

 

muggabee .. you can prove me wrong very easily .. and that is to show a case where a PPC has turned up and a defence has been given and the PPC has lost..

 

Its not rocket science .... all I want is 1 example to look at ... you can evade the question all you want .. but its only fair for you to back your knowledge/advice up with real FACTS ....

 

I did it .. so over to you .. PLEASE dont try and avoid it with silly answers ... Just 1 case .. Just 1 ... where the PPC did turn up, and a defence given according to your advice and the driver won...

 

What could be simpler .. you are of indenepnant means .. lots of time to waste in your life .. surely the internet or your vast (???) experience can give you that information ...

 

The gauntlet is there .... so show up or shut up ... SIMPLE !!!!!

 

 

I do hate to answer a question with a question but given the number of Bank/CC cases served in the last few years how many that were served correctly and with the arguments all in place were settled early or by default because the defendant failed to appear ?

 

Its the same situation, with the same law but even better for the consumer as you rely on applied law, if you'd care to add the following wording to your next LBA

 

" I strongly suggest you get legal advice to defend this matter as it would place an unbearable burden on my soul if I were to take advantage of your possible ignorance of the law"

 

Thats ethical business, end of, and i can't believe that you have the gall to prance around this forum with the sole intent of underminig the good work done by it's founders and members in promoting awareness of the right to legal redress and protection from blatanty unenforceable penalties.

[Guest perky88]

No ... muggerbee ... enough avoiding the answer with a question..

 

It was a simple enough request, the exact same as was given to me ...

 

Im not talking about business practices/morals etc.. as in your opinion letting a landowner protect his land is wrong .... but i dont want to get into that.

 

SHOW US A CASE THAT HAS BEEN WON BY SOMEONE WITH A PPC AND DEFENDANT THERE ....

 

I cant get it simpler ... I was asked to show one and I did ... now please YOU do the same ...

[legaladviser]

Perky88, I challenge you to send me by PM the details of the losing defendant Mr Blackburn in your case. I will then either appeal on his behalf or get the judgement set aside so that he can receive a proper defence.

 

You are extremely sure of your legal position so I will look forward to your message imminently. If you do not accept the challenge, I will post back here that fact and you will be revealed for exactly the wannabe lawyer bull****ter that you clearly are.

[Muggerbee]

No .. but it does show, as on many of your posts, how many mistakes you make....

 

So ..If anyone wants to take his advice seriously ... see you at the bench .. sorry different court system/rules .. I am sure with such fundimental mistakes he knows what hes on about !!!

 

muggabee .. you can prove me wrong very easily .. and that is to show a case where a PPC has turned up and a defence has been given and the PPC has lost..

 

Its not rocket science .... all I want is 1 example to look at ... you can evade the question all you want .. but its only fair for you to back your knowledge/advice up with real FACTS ....

 

I did it .. so over to you .. PLEASE dont try and avoid it with silly answers ... Just 1 case .. Just 1 ... where the PPC did turn up, and a defence given according to your advice and the driver won...

 

What could be simpler .. you are of indenepnant means .. lots of time to waste in your life .. surely the internet or your vast (???) experience can give you that information ...

 

The gauntlet is there .... so show up or shut up ... SIMPLE !!!!![/quote]

 

somethings just write themselves once again I hear the dulcet tones of cherubs whispering softly to me "hoist by his own petard"