Private Parking Tickets - General discussion points

[Dublindel]

Thats just childish waffle. I have an invoice from parking eyeunpaid. thay will chase me from 4th august for the full amount and I cannot wait to have some fun with them. they are private companies so it's just an invoice. follow this if you can.

 

I loan you my lawn mower at a charge of £5 for the morning and £5 for the afternoon. you pay £10 but bring it back the following morning and I send you a penalty notice charging you £40 reduced to £20. what do you think my chances are of getting this money out of you would be in court. the answer is - THE SAME AS A PARKING COMPANY.

[Steve Mac]

Doh! I sent a letter before I read the posts on here.

 

I parked at the Brewery car park in Romford, run by MET Parking Services, and ended up with a ticket. I took some advice from another site and sent them the following letter (paragraph with personal details deleted):

 

I had purchased a valid parking ticket (a copy of which is enclosed) when I parked the car that morning. This ticket cost £2.50 and expired at 3:08pm, covering the period when the Parking Charge was issued. I placed the ticket face up on the dashboard when I left the vehicle. The only way I can think that the ticket ended up face down is that the draught from me shutting the boot caused the ticket to flip over after I returned to put some shopping in the car. Therefore I do not dispute that the ticket was not clearly displayed when the Parking Charge was issued.

However after taking legal advice, I do dispute the amount you have chosen to charge me for the ticket not being clearly displayed.

When I parked in the car park and paid for a ticket, I entered into a contract with yourselves.

Put simply, in return for a fee, I was permitted to park the vehicle in the car park as long as the vehicle clearly displayed a valid parking ticket. When the ticket flipped over, I broke the terms of that contract.

Common law holds that the remedy for breach of contract is damages. This means you are entitled to damages covering the costs incurred as a result of me breaching the contract. For damages to be justifiable they must be a reflection of actual loss. As I had paid for the use of that space until 3:08pm, including the period in which the Parking Charge was issued, you did not incur any actual loss of revenue.

I would like to draw your attention to a piece of consumer legislation called the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999).

 

Section 5 states:

“Unfair Terms

5. - (1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

 

 

(2) A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term.

 

(3) Notwithstanding that a specific term or certain aspects of it in a contract has been individually negotiated, these Regulations shall apply to the rest of a contract if an overall assessment of it indicates that it is a pre-formulated standard contract.

 

(4) It shall be for any seller or supplier who claims that a term was individually negotiated to show that it was.

 

(5) Schedule 2 to these Regulations contains an indicative and non-exhaustive list of the terms which may be regarded as unfair.”

　

Schedule 2: Indicative and Non-Exhaustive List of Terms which may be Regarded as Unfair

 

(e) requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation.

 

It is obvious from this legislation that the terms of the contract between ourselves were unfair from the very beginning. Furthermore it is clear that your claim for £100 (or £50 if paid within 14 days) is grossly disproportionate to any loss you may have incurred, and as such is also unfair under the above legislation. In light of this, the contract between us and the subsequent Parking Charge you have levied against me is wrong under this legislation and therefore I will not pay the unfair charge which you are claiming from me.

Please could you reply to me within 14 days stating your response. I feel this is more than enough time for a company of your size with a dedicated department and staff to deal with this matter. A stamped addressed envelope is enclosed for your convenience.

If I do not receive a response within this time I will assume that the charge has been cancelled.

　

　

　

　Anyway, this week (exactly three months after the ticket was issued and well after my 14 day deadline!) they wrote back. They state that the breach of contract damages arguement is invalid and that I owe them £50, as that's what the terms and conditions stated on the signs (they have graciously reset the original penalty amount down from £100 - aren't they kind?!). They also say that the sums are entirely in line with those set out in the British Parking Association Code of Practice (which I now know is written by the parking companies themselves). They also say that "the courts have already upheld fees of this sum to be reasonable".

 

The last sentence of their letter is this:

 

Additional costs may be inccurred upon transferal of this case to debt recovery agents and/or court proceedings.

 

My question is what do I do now?

 

Can I just ignore them even though I have already entered into correspondence with them, or should I write again telling them to poke it?

 

Forgive me if this post is in the wrong place, I'm a novice at this forum lark.

　

 

EDIT: I've now moved this post to a more apropriate place, thanks.

　

Edited August 4, 2009 by Steve Mac

[letshelp]

Hi Steve,

As you have found out writing and trying to appeal to these clowns is a complete waste of time and a stamp.

You will now be on their well and truly hooked list now so they will bombard you with all manner of threatening letters.

My advice would be for you to ignore any further letters you receive from them, you have clearly stated your position, you had in fact paid for the time you were parked, the imposition of a sum of £50 or £100 is clearly a penalty and is unenforceable.

So ignore any further threats and letters, if unsure post back here for support.

regards

[Steve Mac]

Thanks. Wish I'd have remembered this site before I wrote the original letter (I'm a member from way back when banks were repaying their charges).

 

Worst thing is that it is my wife's car but I was driving, so needn't have done a thing. Oh well, live and learn!

[carrera]

Hi , I was given a parking charge yesterday for parking in a Hungry Horse pub car park at Bicester retail village. It is asking for £60. I did go into the pub for a meal and afterwards walked over to the shops. I did not see the a4 laminated signs in the car park which were lost in all the other larger signs advertising there various meal or drink deals. It states that i could use the car park while i was using the pub. I have a receipt for the meal i had at 12.26 and the time on the ticket is 13.30. I may have still been on the premises ( in the beer garden ) at this time. I have read a lot of peoples advice on this and other sites but still am in two minds to pay it and be done with it. They have cctv evidence and being a pub could charge for loss of business ,as i was there all in all for about 3hours even though the ticket was given just over an hour into the parking, if it eventually goes to court and i loose.

Am i right in understanding that the charge fee they are claiming must be shown on the sign, as this was not the case. I will return tomorrow and take some photographic proof.

I keep kicking myself for being so stupid. There is loads of free parking at this retail park so didnt think that there was an issue with parking.

[juliusceasor]

It states that i could use the car park while i was using the pub. I have a receipt for the meal i had at 12.26 and the time on the ticket is 13.30.

 

Whilst I have sympathy with businesses whose parking is used by persons not using their services as it can impact on revenue it is clear that this doesn't apply to you.

 

You can ignore it as is suggested on this forum or you could ignore the parking company and speak to the retailer concerned. I am sure they would not be happy if you have a ticket having patronised their establishment. Two to three hours over a meal and drinks after is not unreasonable, neither is it unreasonable to window shop nearby establishments. After all, it maybe that either window shopping first, you came across the hungry horse or it may cause you to return to have a meal again, in the future, when you purchase something you may have seen while window shopping.

 

The upshot of what I am saying is that your parking isn't unreasonable. It's how you want to play it. If you ignore it you can argue your case if they ever (unlikely) take you to court or you can speak to the Hungry Horse and protest most vociferously.

Edited August 11, 2009 by juliusceasor

[lamma]

Ignore the PPC.

[letshelp]

Hi , I was given a parking charge yesterday for parking in a Hungry Horse pub car park at Bicester retail village. It is asking for £60.

 

If I ask you for just £50 will you pay me?

 

I did go into the pub for a meal and afterwards walked over to the shops. I did not see the a4 laminated signs in the car park which were lost in all the other larger signs advertising there various meal or drink deals.

 

So you have entered into no contract then.

 

I have read a lot of peoples advice on this and other sites but still am in two minds to pay it and be done with it.

 

These companies rely on people like you who cannot be bothered just to ignore them. Is there no charity that is more deserving of your money if you have so much to casually give away?

 

They have cctv evidence

 

Of what? How is it evidence of anything?

 

and being a pub could charge for loss of business

 

Oh really, under what legal authority?

 

,as i was there all in all for about 3hours even though the ticket was given just over an hour into the parking, if it eventually goes to court and i loose.

 

A very, very big 'if' it goes to court and an even bigger 'if' you lose.

 

Am i right in understanding that the charge fee they are claiming must be shown on the sign, as this was not the case. I will return tomorrow and take some photographic proof.

 

You are giving them far too much credibility, just ignore any toilet paper they send you and get on with your life.

regards

[tranceaddict84]

Anyone know roughly how long after the PPCs stop sending you stuff you can consider yourself in the clear? My last of two (ignored) letters from Excel was the beginning of June and I've heard nothing since - if that's all the fight they've got then I'm almost disappointed

[juliusceasor]

Anyone know roughly how long after the PPCs stop sending you stuff you can consider yourself in the clear?

 

No but I suspect when a company sells off its uncollected debts to another company that might go on for months mines 6 months from start to last letter. But I don't lose any sleep over it whatsoever, if you want more post from them park there again.

[sophiahapgood]

OK been doing the usual and ignoring the standard two letters/invoices and I now have a letter from some random deby collection agency called Newlyn giving a load of blah. Has anyone heard of these clowns?

 

I'm thinking it might be time for a template type letter back at civil enforcement stating keeper verses driver etc blah, any thoughts or just keep ingoring?

 

Thank you kindly.

[juliusceasor]

no just ignore if the ticket was originally from a pcn.

[sophiahapgood]

no just ignore if the ticket was originally from a pcn.

 

Yes it was from some bozo's called Civil Enforcement for apparently exceeding the 2 hour parking in PC world in Huddersfield.

[crem]

OK been doing the usual and ignoring the standard two letters/invoices and I now have a letter from some random deby collection agency called Newlyn giving a load of blah. Has anyone heard of these clowns?

Newlyn is a regular name used on here, and perfectly standard in the PPC trail of letters, so nothing exceptional to worry about.

 

I'm thinking it might be time for a template type letter back at civil enforcement stating keeper verses driver etc blah, any thoughts or just keep ingoring?

Any communication with the PPC/DCA would only be taken as a good sign by them that they are getting through to you! Continue to ignore DCA letters (and their "solicitors" letters that will no doubt arrive soon).

 

You are now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel with the DCA letters, and when you get some solicitors letters you are pulling into the station. When you get to the station you can safely get off their gravy train with no harm coming to your wallet.

 

Thank you kindly.

 

..

[sophiahapgood]

..

 

No Thank you kindly

[ticker]

having taken advice on no contact made with parking company, i have received a "notice of intended legal action" from a private parking company which states under heading " this is not acourt or legal document" asking to be pain within 5 days, as I am going on hols. in 4 days should I continue with no contact or reply or pay ? Any advice urgently needed !!!

[cab1ne]

having taken advice on no contact made with parking company, i have received a "notice of intended legal action" from a private parking company which states under heading " this is not acourt or legal document" asking to be pain within 5 days, as I am going on hols. in 4 days should I continue with no contact or reply or pay ? Any advice urgently needed !!!

 

Any advice urgently needed !!!

 

"ENJOY YOUR HOLIDAY"

 

CAB

[letshelp]

I am going on hols. in 4 days should I continue with no contact or reply or pay ? Any advice urgently needed !!!

DO NOT PAY under any circumstances.

Carry on ignoring.

Finally, enjoy your holiday and make sure you spend any money you thought about paying to the [problematic].

regards

[juliusceasor]

Doesn't anybody read the threads?

 

There's hand holding and there is wet nursing.

 

All the PCN stuff is the same re-hashed in slightly different ways. IF you decide to ignore it then you have to be prepared to stick with it. It is all in this thread time and again.

 

Or am I being grumpy?

[ticker]

thanks all for peace of mind !

Will enjoy hols and catch up on forum when I return. TTfn

[letshelp]

Or am I being grumpy?

Yes:D

Joking aside, a lot of new members come to this site believing their circumstances are different to ones gone by, they all need our help and reassurance just as we did when we started.

I appreciate it is frustrating to see the same questions time and time again, but by supporting new members that is how we get the word round and they tell others about the site, which adds to our strength.

regards

[juliusceasor]

Yes:D

 

:pYes I was wasn't I :-|sorry.

[Dougal99]

I am new to this site.

My husband has received two pcn's one from a company called CP Plus ltd and one from uk parking control which have the same address for a start. One was asking for £50 and then if not paid within 28 days £80 plus £40 admin charge the other £75 and then if not paid £95 plus £40 admin charge.

I was going to pay them, but by chance I decided to check things out on the internet and I found this site. I have written to both companies using template found on this site confirming that he is the registered keeper of the vehicle and that they need to take this matter up with the driver. Both pcn have been issued via anpr system.

Over the weekend he has received two letters back one from uk parking control requesting details of the driver but it states that the pcn will remain open in his name and be processed accordingly. The other from cp plus ltd states it is a final reminder to pay £80 within the next 7 days or this notice could result in this debt being registered in the county court or warrant being issued to baliffs.

Firstly, I was going to write back to uk parking control stating that we have no record of who was driving the car and ask them to produce evidence but not sure how to reply to cp plus ?

thanks

[barney_gumble]

Just to quickly update my status, ECP/Brinx (after being told not to contact me any more) have now passed the P CN on to ControlAccount who have sent the same kind of threatening gibberish that ECP sent.

 

edit - oh and they haven't added any more to it ... shame I was expecting it to go up by £25 or something

Edited August 24, 2009 by barney_gumble

[barney_gumble]

I am new to this site.

Over the weekend he has received two letters back one from uk parking control requesting details of the driver but it states that the pcn will remain open in his name and be processed accordingly.

 

This isn't legal, but they need someone to harrass, I suppose.

 

The other from cp plus ltd states it is a final reminder to pay £80 within the next 7 days or this notice could result in this debt being registered in the county court or warrant being issued to baliffs.

 

This is not going to happen.

 

Firstly, I was going to write back to uk parking control stating that we have no record of who was driving the car and ask them to produce evidence but not sure how to reply to cp plus ?

thanks

 

I'd say it's either the put up or shut up template letter or do nothing. I sent the put up or shut up letter last time, and now the "debt" has been passed on to another agency ... who have sent practically the same template! Nobody's interested in taking me to court ... it's been over 6 months and nothing has happened.