Belville v Capital One

[steven4064]

The answers to all your interest questions can be found in my interest tutorial - see my signature

[Belville]

OK so today I have had a Letter from Fredricksons

 

It says

 

" We thank you for your recent letter and return your Postal Order for £1.00 since we are no longer instructed in relation to this matter.

 

Yours faithfully, "

 

So It looks as though they don't have a Credit agreement and have passed it back to Capital One.

 

So its

 

BELVILLE 1

CRAP 1 0

Edited June 24, 2008 by Belville

[steven4064]

BELVILLE 1

CRAP 1 0

Half-time score

[BigBudgie]

Shortly to become Belville 2 Cap One 0.

Go and get that updated LBA sorted.

Steven's interest tutorial is very good and willanswer all of your questions on the interest side of things.

 

Rgds Budgie

[Belville]

Does anyone have An LBA that would be suitable as regards the time lapse as the first one started ,

 

"Due to recent media coverage on bank charges I now believe that you, Capital One Bankhave been charging me charges that are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e) of the said regulations gives a non-complete list of terms, which may be regarded as unfair, such as a term that requires me as a consumer who fails in his obligation, to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation"

 

and I Don't think it is now suitable.

 

 

I'm intending to now add the more resent charges to this LBA and am Concidering adding CI, but I have to make sure that I am capable of arguing it if it becomes neccesary, so may stick with simple interest, but really would like to screw them for as much as possible after their antics of late.

 

 

 

Steven, Thankyou for pointing me to your Interest Tutorial but I'm still confused!! Do I put into the interest Calculator the APR that is stated on my statement or should I use a lesser amount. I have read in one of the forums that several people have used 14% on Capital One claims and won with CI.

[steven4064]

I would put the interest that is on your statement.

 

The example in the turorial is for a currrent account but credit card accounts work exactly the same. Remember that the 'balance' is negative.

[BigBudgie]

Does anyone have An LBA that would be suitable as regards the time lapse as the first one started ,

 

"Due to recent media coverage on bank charges I now believe that you, Capital One Bankhave been charging me charges that are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e) of the said regulations gives a non-complete list of terms, which may be regarded as unfair, such as a term that requires me as a consumer who fails in his obligation, to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation"

 

and I Don't think it is now suitable.

 

 

I'm intending to now add the more resent charges to this LBA and am Concidering adding CI, but I have to make sure that I am capable of arguing it if it becomes neccesary, so may stick with simple interest, but really would like to screw them for as much as possible after their antics of late.

 

 

 

Steven, Thankyou for pointing me to your Interest Tutorial but I'm still confused!! Do I put into the interest Calculator the APR that is stated on my statement or should I use a lesser amount. I have read in one of the forums that several people have used 14% on Capital One claims and won with CI.

 

Hiya Belville, I had a quick look but couldn't find a suitable LBA on CAG, am sure there is one somewhere but I couldnt easily see it.

 

Here is a version that I used for my own claim, please feel free to adapt it for yourself. Just delete the bits you don't need and add and amend where necessary.

 

Personally I would claim compound interest on your charges. You can always change your mind when you file your Court claim and just go for the statutory court interest instead of Compaound interest. But remember you don't claim statutory Court interest until you file your claim in Court and you don't claim both Statutory and compound ( it's one or the other ). Check the APR carefully, my interest rate used ( on my own spreadsheets ) for a compound interest claim is 35% which is the same rate that Capital One used for both my Cash advances and purchases ( I only had a credit limit of £200 ).

 

Hope this helps. Feel free to post your own LBA here if you would like Peeps to check it before you send.

 

Rgds Budgie

 

Capital One Bank

Legal Department

4th floor

Loxley House

Station Street

Nottingham

NG2 3HX

 

Account No:

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Please see attached copies of our recent correspondence. Owing to work commitments I have been unable to further pursue his matter until now. Also, since writing to you originally I have discovered errors in my original calculations. I am therefore writing to you to re-state my claim as follows :-

The charges you have levied from my account for breaches of contract by way of exceeding my agreed credit limit, late payment, card misuse, etc. are unlawful. It is my belief that these charges bear no relation to the costs to which you were put as a result of my contractual breaches.

This being the case, the charges levied from my account amount to contractual penalties which are irrecoverable at common law. Even if there is a clause in the terms & conditions of the account that states that penalty charges become payable for breaches of contract, such a term would be Invalid under S.5- S.8 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

You may consider that since some of the charges were levied more than six years ago, part of my claim may be time barred under the Limitation Act 1980, and you might want to rely on this to dismiss my claim. However, please be advised that should we not reach an agreement over repayment, I will proceed with the claim under either:

 

s.32 (1)(b) of the Limitation Act 1980 on the grounds that I could not reasonably have discovered the your deliberate concealment of the facts relevant to my right of action before the report of the OFT was published in April 2006, or alternatively,

 

s.32 (1)© of the Limitation Act 1980 on the grounds that the payments were conceded on the mistaken belief that the said charges and interest thereon did not amount to penalties and that I could not reasonably have discovered the said mistakes before the OFT report was published.

 

The charges I have paid total £XXX and are listed in the attached schedule. I request that you refund me these amounts plus interest in full. You have been unjustly enriched by charging XXX% APR for re-lending my money. Further you have denied me the opportunity to invest funds you have unlawfully taken, and denied me the economic benefit of these funds in the first instance. I have applied the same rate to my request in accordance with current consumer contract legislation.

I hereby give you 14 days in which to repay £XXX in unlawful penalty charges, £XXXXX interest at the contractual rate of XX%APR, Totaling £XXXXX (calculated up to XX/XX/XXXX).

Should you fail to meet my request within 14 days I will be forced to start legal proceedings; you will receive no further warnings.

 

 

Yours Sincerely

Edited June 24, 2008 by BigBudgie

[Belville]

Just worked out the different amounts with interest on Charges of £818

 

Statutory interest is £255.89 making a total of £1073.89

 

and

 

Compound interest is £2192.71 making a total of £3010.71

 

calculated using the interest rate for my type of card as listed on their web site of 34.9%.

 

The difference is massive, can that be correct?

Edited June 24, 2008 by Belville

[BigBudgie]

Sounds fine to me !

 

Perhaps now you understand why Capital One are so keen to settle up claims for the lowest amount possible and before they get to a final hearing.

 

Take into account that they have used the money that they took from you unlawfully via their penalty charges to further unjustly enrich themsleves by lending it out over and over at their commercial rates of interest. Basically the compound interest you are claiming back is the amount by which they have been unlawfully enriched.

 

If you decide to settle your claim for anything less than the charges plus compound interest amount then Capital One are still profiting from thier unlawful action.

 

Interesting isn't it ???

[Belville]

Budgie

YES It's very interesting indeed! and makes a huge difference to the amount claimed!

Are People Successfully claiming against Capital one with CI and still being paid out with out ever having to step inside a court room ie: soon after filing at court or are they having to go before a judge?

[dpick]

Yes I claimed with CI against cap1 had to issue N1 (total claim was £1600) they acknowledged claim said they would defend in full then paid claim in full approx 28 days after they acknowledged claim.

 

dpick:)

[WendyB]

Some are, some aren't. I claimed interest at 14% and got it. If its a lot of CI they might offer you a lower amount first. You could then decide if you want to carry on with direction hearing etc, or take what they offer and discontinue. But rest assured it will definitley be at least the full amount of charges, Purchase Interest and stat 8%, a big difference to the paltry £8 pre charge they offer in their letters, even their "final final" offer. Once you file at court they know you mean business.

[Belville]

So just as I thought the idiots at Crap 1 think that they can play silly buggers.

 

They have now passed my account to NCO debt collectors, so I will be off to the post office in a little while to send

 

either a CCA74 request to them with a paragraph added to say

 

"please inform your clients that if neither you nor they can supply the information requested that this account will be unenforceable"

 

OR

 

A letter telling them that the account is in dispute and that their clients are well aware of this as they recalled this account from another collection agency because they couldn't provide an enforceable cretit agreement

 

Which one do you think I should send??

 

On another similar matter,

 

If Crap 1 cannot provide an enforceable agreement, does that not mean that they have to repay me all charges, purchase interest and anything else they have taken money from me for. Obviously Anything I have spent on the card wouldn't be paid back to me as I am morally, even if not leagaly responcible for that.

 

Does anyone know if that is an arguement that has or could be used to reclaim charges?

Edited June 30, 2008 by Belville

[havinastella]

You don't need an argument to reclaim charges, it's your right.

 

If you don't have the statements sar them and then use the template letters.

 

Jogs

[steven4064]

Which one do you think I should send??

Why not send a letter that says both - they are both valid points

[Belville]

Steven,

How does this sound?

 

YourReferenceNumber: ****

Capital One Account No: ****

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

]I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will communicate further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true and signed copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for rolling sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee.

 

2. If this debt has been sold to you, please supply me with a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

4. Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

5. As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

6. Furthermore you are reminded that under s78 sub section (6) whilst the default continues you are not entitled to enforce the agreement in law.

 

I would like to draw your attention to the fact that as your client is aware this account is in dispute as they have already had this account returned to them by Fredrickson international because they were unable to provide an enforceable credit agreement.

Enclosed Is a copy of the letter From Fredrickson International Confirming That they are no longer instructed on this account

 

Please inform your clients that if neither you nor they can supply the information requested that this account will be unenforceable.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Do you think I should add anything??

 

Should I CC Crap 1? Or Add something about this in my 2nd LBA to them, maybe along the lines of

 

" I require you the cease harrassment of me as regards this account through debt collection agencies as Niether You Nor they have prove that this account is enforceable as No Credit agreement has been provided by either you or them despite requests accompanied by the satutory fee of £1 "

Edited June 30, 2008 by Belville

[Belville]

Hi havinastella

Thankyou for your reply

I am in my second year of claiming against this god awful company

My previous posts will explain.

[steven4064]

Letter looks good.

 

I'm afraid I have not kept up with your thread. What sort (level) of harassment are you getting and are you keeping records?

[Belville]

Steven,

 

Capital one themselves were calling me at all hours of the day until about 4 weeks ago, I stopped answering their calls months ago. (I now don't answer ANY calls from 0870 numbers unless I know the number and am expecting a return call) Fredrickson started calling me I was ignoring their calls but unfortunately my Daughter answered my phone and passed it to me so I very firmly told them that any comunication they wanted would have to be in writing and also that I was disputing the account so they would be better sending it back, They did so after I sent them the CCA request. Now NCO have been instructed by them They are now calling and have left me a voice mail asking me to call them, Of course thats not going to happen which is why I am going to be sending them the above letter.

I hope this clarifies things for you

[steven4064]

Are you keeping a record of all the calls you receive - times and dates?

[Belville]

Hi Steven

I havent been keeping a record, but can start doing.

Is it very important and have I c**ked things up by not doing so?

[steven4064]

You've not messed up but the more 'evidence' the better

[Belville]

Do you think I should add anything??

 

Should I CC Crap 1? Or Add something about this in my 2nd LBA to them, maybe along the lines of

 

" I require you the cease harrassment of me as regards this account through debt collection agencies as Niether You Nor they have prove that this account is enforceable as No Credit agreement has been provided by either you or them despite requests accompanied by the satutory fee of £1 "

 

 

This is re: post no 66

[WendyB]

Hi Belville. Can I just point out (if no-one has already) that you can either go the CCa route, or the reclaiming charges route, but not both. My personal opinion is go for the charges, doesn't take as long, you end up with money left over for yourself (usually) after the outstanding balance is paid off, then its goodbye Crap One and their related DCAs and tedious phone calls. However the CCA route will only mean the debt is not enforceable, not that you don't owe it. Which then leads to Crap One passing it from one DCA to another ad infinitum.

 

Just my opinion.

[ukaviator]

You could send the DCA a letter like this:

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Your ref:

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/xxxx, the contents of which are noted. As a holder of a Consumer Credit Licence, you are obliged to comply with the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines on Debt Collection. I would therefore be obliged if you would provide me with an explanation as to why you are attempting to collect on an alleged debt which is in dispute with Capital One (Europe) plc, prior to your first contact with me, and has yet to be resolved.

 

Office of Fair Trading guidelines Section 2.8k clearly state "not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt."

Since this is considered an unfair practice and contrary to the Office of Fair Trading guidelines, you should consider this letter as a formal complaint, and provide me with a copy of your complaint resolution procedure. I also require you to confirm that you will now comply with the Office of Fair Trading guidelines, and will not attempt any further collection activity whilst the dispute is unresolved.

 

Should you fail to provide me with the required undertaking within 7 days, I shall report your breach of the Office of Fair Trading guidelines to Trading Standards and the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Take notice that I will not discuss this matter on the telephone, and all further communication must be in writing. Any further telephone calls will be perceived as harassment, and dealt with accordingly. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to hold a consumer credit license in the future.

 

Further, take note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of this letter may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003. I will only communicate in writing, your telephone calls will not be answered.

 

I am of the opinion that if your company continues pursuit of this alleged debt, it will be in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from Harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the Office of Fair Trading Collection Guidelines.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets. I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Angry person

 

 

What you also should claim for now are for your charges refund, if they add up to a fair amount, and default removal.