Hi What was the date of the last payment you made? If it was over six years ago in England/Wales or over five years ago in Scotland it is statute barred. With regard to the default notice is it the only default notice or was there an earlier one? There can only be one default notice per account. I get the feeling they may have defaulted you much earlier in their process. Hang on a bit for more replies from other CAGers.

Why not write to the housing assocation and tell them the story. It is possible they would keep you on as a tenant anyway.

If the documents have been cut and pasted as you say I wonder if this constitutes Fraud or forgery. It is a criminal act and potentially a job for the police. They may have handed you a very good card if this is in fact what they have done.

Bump Can any other CAGers have a read of this thread and help out please. I am the only one helping out and I am scared to be the solitary provider of advice. Many thanks.

Bump

Hi Stu So far as I can see this is an application form. They have not provided you with the prescribed terms. The following link takes you to a useful post: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/105315-my-agreement-enforceable-useful.html According to that post you need to have the following information: B Repayments A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following- (a) Number of repayments; (b) Amount of repayments; © Frequency and timing of repayments; (d) Dates of repayments; (e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable. C Rate of interest A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement D Credit limit This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit. The document you have posted has none of the above, so as far as I can see from what you have posted they have not provided you with the required information and remain in breech. HEALTH WARNING: I am not an expert, just making a judgment based on reading many other posts. I will make another post after this one with the word BUMP in it in the hope we can attract some other hopefully corroborating, comment. I also note you appear to have ticked the box for PPI. If so this could have been miss-sold and you could be in line to claim your payments back.

Hi. Never fear, there is no such thing as a stupid question. The consumer credit act of 1974 defined loan agreements as being of two types; regulated and unregulated. I do not myself know the full legal definitions of the two types of agreement but basically a regulated agreement was a loan agreement subject to provisions of the 1974 act and was taken out for amounts under £25000. A non-regulated agreement was for amounts over £25000 or for limited companies. Depending upon how much the agreement was for, and whether the debtor was a limited company or not a different document/form would be used for the agreement. My question therefore, and as I said earlier, I hope it is not a red herring, is, how are you able to have a regulated agreement for an amount greater than £25000? Under the old act an amount of £33000 would be a non-regulated agreement. I do not know what the new act says or the dates that apply. I would have thought that as your agreement was for £33000 it would be an unregulated agreement and the document you signed ought not to say it was a regulated agreement. I wonder if it has been transacted on the wrong form and if, as a consequence, it is enforceable. It would be interesting to see what other CAGers say, and I apologize if I am taking this thread away from the core issues.

great.

OK thanks for the clarification. However, my point, subject to clarification, is that a regulated agreement has a maximum value of £25000. If you have been funded to the tune of £33000 it should not have been a regulated agreement. Having said that the new act may have changed that.

Hi all In Olympic's post 13 he said it was an agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 for £33K. Not sure but am I right in believing a regulated agreement can only go to a maximum of £25K? If so, what has he signed? Apologies if this is a red herring.

Hi Stu The docs in post 26 are too small to see. The docs in post 27 seem to be a covering letter they sent you. They say they are under no obligation to provide a signed copy and that is right. But they must provide a true copy. This means that everything that you signed up to AT THE TIME must be re-produced. You would think if they had a signed copy they would produce it as there is nothing to be gained by not doing so. It would be interesting to see what they have sent you, as they may very well be in breach but you need to get the docs posted up first. They also say "please be assured we would not have opened an account without site of a signed agreement" Sorry but I would not take a bank's assurance for anything. They would not accept any assurances you offer. They want proof of everything and you should demand the same. They also say "Having satisfied our obligation....the agreement is fully enforceable.........." This may be what they think, or perhaps not, but it is certainly what they WANT YOU to think. Ultimately it needs to be looked at by an expert to determine whether they have satisfied their obligation and to see whether or not it is an enforceable document and you should not accept the word of the bank. They are also afraid of claims management companies and seek to frighten you away from them which is why they are devoting a good part of their letter to addressing this issue. Make your own judgment about CMC's. There are some dodgy ones and others who have achieved results. They then invite you to meet a trained branch specialist. Pity they didn't offer this invitation before you started to challenge the agreement. The specialist is trained all right, to make sure you comply with the outcome the bank wants and to save it's position as much as they can. It may be possible to further de-construct the last page of their letter but you get the idea. You will need to post the other docs they have sent you up here legibly so they can be looked at by an expert. Once you have done it we will try and attract some attention to this thread.

Well Done:D

Hi Stu Have you had any more phone calls of late? Also, if you get the documents you have received posted up here there may be someone who can comment on their enforceability.

I will do a credit reference check now, I am guessing I will have defaulted? Is that what it means when the debt has been sold on? A default is basically what happens if you dont pay. In this situation a creditor can post a report with the CRA's saying what it is you have defaulted on. However, they may still own the debt. Later on they may sell it or they may get a DCA to act on their behalf to collect the money. If the original Creditor did not post a default with the CRA's it is possible the DCA will do so once they have bought your debt. The thing to watch out for is that the default can only be posted once per debt, not by every DCA that subsequently acquires the debt. Also can I just not hold out for so long? It's not like they going to come to my work are they? (That is my biggest concern as I work in investment banking, and I risk losing my career). I make no recommendations about "holding out". However, I have successfully ignored a number of DCA's for over 3 years now and they have done nothing. However, I am prepared for the poor credit history, indeed I have no choice given my personal circumstances. They will almost certainly never turn up at your work because a. It is a big and dangerous thing for them to do from a legal standpoint, b. They do not necessarily know where you work (Have they got your work number, and c. personal visits of any kind are getting very rare as it is simply not sensible to tie up an individual for an uncertain number of hours and paying his expenses etc in the hope he might catch up with you, particularly when he has less rights than the postman to be on your property. However, a possible risk is they will call you at work despite this being against the debt collection guide lines. I have had this happen but since it is my business I have been able to arrange things such as to get some entertainment out of it. however, it could be more serious for you. If you are worried send the telephone harassment template letter. A lot of the time that will keep them off. can just get one of these 'loophole' solicitors will it not be all gravy? Up to you but you will likely end up paying the solicitor more than the debts are worth. Better to deal with it yourself via the assistance of CAGers. You will learn some useful things and become more empowered and confident in your future contractual dealings. Make the time to deal with it and it will repay you in many ways.

I would totally back PGH7447 and not send an I&E of any kind to anyone. When writing to them simply state you have determined what your income and earnings are and as a result you are able to offer £X per month on X date until settled. That's all. If you want to challenge any of the amounts use the templates on this site to do so. If they do not respond within 12+2 days you can legally withold payment until they do. If they respond within the 12+2 days you can then determine whether the debt is challenge-able in full or in part. I cannot see it making your credit record worse. You will still be hassled but if phone calls are a problem use the telephone harassment template. It frequently works. Letters will continue to arrive but after the initial alarm of them they can become quite amusing so dont let yourself get into a frame of mind that regards every letter as a hassle. (It has been said elsewhere on this forum that you are not a true CAGer until you look forward to the post and are disappointed when there is not a DCA letter!!). You will not be obliged to pay it all straight away, even though they will want and expect it. You are uniquely and solely able to determine what you can pay because you did your I&E statement. At that point it is back to the repayment plan. In short, may I refer you to my post 3 above. What should have happened is that when you defaulted on your debts they would record the default with the CRA's. Once recorded the clock starts and the default will be there for six years. If you pay the bill it will be marked as satisfied and there are things you can do to get a satisfied default removed from the CRA's. Might be worth while checking the 3 CRA's to see what information they hold about you. Don't talk to your creditors. Not ever. Written comms only.

Hi all and first of all many thanks for all your replies. It is very much appreciated. Our retail business has three of us full time and one of us part time. We do not keep a record of who is driving other than the tachograph record in the case of our two 7 ton trucks. We are small enough to know who is in the vehicle and in any case we only do local deliveries. For the purposes of this offence we know who was driving, our only record is the tachograph, and we have advised the police who the driver was using their own paperwork. Do I need to do anymore? I have a nasty feeling someone is about to come on here and tell me we are breaking the law by not maintaining a written record of who is driving our vehicles!

Hi Here are a few tips to help you along. First of all do your own Income and Expenditure statement showing how much money is coming in and what your bills are. You should prioritize your bills as follows: 1. Rent/Mortgage 2. Council Tax 3. Food/Utilities/Clothing 4. Transport 5. a small reserve What you have left is the total amount of money with which to pay creditors. This is the maximum they can have and it is up to you to determine what percentage each creditor gets. Once you have done that you can write to them with your payment offers. Try and obtain bank details and set up standing orders (NOT DIRECT DEBITS). Work out a date you can pay which is a few days after you yourself get paid. In your offer to your creditors tell them you are paying several days later still. This will then build in a time reserve that should see your creditors getting paid a day or two before it is due, thus preventing them from using late payment as an excuse to pressure you. It does not matter if they don't like or do not accept your proposals, as this is the best you can do. Do not let them dictate to you what you will do as you simply cannot afford it. You know this because you have worked it out already. They have two choices; accept the deal or take legal action. If they do the latter and win (and who says they will win as you can quite possibly challenge your debts in full or part) they will end up with the same amount you were going to pay them anyway because you can tell the court of your previous offers and the court will very likely uphold your offer. Also, do not talk to any creditor on the telephone. Not ever. From now on all communications must be written only. This is because you then have an audit trail and proof of what was stated by them. Send all communications by recorded delivery and keep the records. Dont sign any of your letters. Keep all communications received including the envelopes. Staple the envelopes to the letters received in case at some point in the future you need to check on the date or the type of postage or origin of correspondence. Hope that helps. Why don't you list all your creditors here and approximate amounts. There may be opportunities to partially or fully challenge some of the bills you have.

I did a quick google and amongst others found this mob which I have never heard of before and am in no way associated with: FAQ's They say this in their FAQ: Are the details I provide to you confidential? All information provided to us is held and used in the strictest of confidence. Your privacy is guaranteed with our service and your details are not provided to any third party whatsoever. We are, however, obliged to provide this information to official bodies, such as Courts, Customs & Excise and the Police should we be asked or required to by law. So by using these guys, or presumably any other guys, no DCA can find out your true address via your post (though they may be able to find where you are by other means such as the electoral register for example). Providing you can find a suitable service that is cheap and does what you want I would think it is a great idea. There is nothing the DCA can do to stop you using such an address and from their point of view it still allows them to contact you, which at the end of the day is what they want.

Hi all One of my employees was driving a company vehicle in December. the vehicle was caught by a speed camera and in due course we received a request for driver information. I replied providing the full (and truthful) details of the driver and his postal address using the form sent for that purpose. I have no received the following letter from the police: "On the returned Notice of Intended Prosecution/Section 172 request for name and address of the driver, you state the driver at TIME was Mr NAME. Our inquiries reveal that no response has been received from the nominated driver. I would be grateful if you would recheck the information previously given, and supply a copy of your records which confirm the identity of the person responsible. A response must be made in writing and returned to this office within 14 days from the date of this letter.! I have the following questions which I hope CAGers may be able to assist with: 1. As I have already advised the police of the name and address of the driver have I now fulfilled my obligations? I take the view (at present) that if the nominated driver does not respond to them it is not my problem (unless you guys say different!). 2. If the answer to 1. is yes then presumably the above letter can be ignored. Alternatively what advice can be offered as a response I.E. Can I simply write to them and say I fulfilled my obligations under the law by completing the first form? 3. If the answer to 1. above is no I presume it follows I must further assist the police in their inquiries against my employee which I don't want to do. What is the minimum I need to do to comply with the law? Many thanks for taking a look and I look forward to your answers. CBJ

According to your figures 7.5% is 127,500. It could be more. Maybe a large part of the reason for the warrants is that people did not get their original penalty notices in the first place.

Are you saying you have definitely repaid the loan? Do you see the repayments in your bank statement? If so, immediately cancel the direct debit. Contact your bank, or better yet, go into the bank, and request that the bank put your money back into the account under the direct debit guarantee scheme. Take all your documents and statements to prove Wonga should not have taken the money and insist the bank do as you ask. They will likely not want to do it but it is your right. It will then be up to the bank to get the money back from Wonga. I would then send a letter to Wonga by recorded delivery stating your position, which is you have paid up (quote them the dates of the transactions and their values, and that ought to be the end of it.

Hi My view is that if you want to pay them but can only manage a set amount a month do not enter into any negotiations with them. Do your own income and expenditure sheet (for your own benefit, never show it to any DCA or creditor). From this determine what you can reasonably afford to pay. That is your offer and stick to it. It is not sensible for you to submit to pressure from these outcasts for more than you can afford; because you cant afford!! Send them a letter (recorded delivery unsigned) with the offer and stick with that payment. If possible get their bank details and set up a standing order. Your offer should include the date you intend to pay it. Set the date so it is convenient to you I.E. for a few days after you normally get paid. Set the SO up for a a couple of days before the date you say you will pay so it arrives there on or before time. This will prevent any hi jinks from them later on trying to use a late payment as an excuse for further action. If you do the above one of two things will happen: 1. They will accept, probably with some written bluster. 2. They will take court action (I think this is most unlikely but they will use the threat), probably a CCJ. If they do that and you are unable to defend, then they will win but at the hearing you can provide evidence of your written offer and bank statements to prove the payments were made (Hence a regular SO as a paper trail). The court would almost certainly accept your proposals anyway or even allow a lower amount. Finally, no more verbal communications. Written only. It is one of the biggest rules on this site. If they call put the phone down. If they call back, phone down. If they are a nuisance use the harassment template letter. The reasons for this are they can bully you into agreements you cannot afford to make and there is no paper trail, something you need. Wait a while for other CAG replies and good luck.

I am very pleased but not at all surprised. Keep posting with any developments.

Hi mumof9 It is good news that she did not let them in either the first time or the second time. If I understand the situation correctly she has now had two visits from the bailiffs. Theoretically she should not get any more. If they cannot get payment on the account after two visits the tendency is to return the account to the council who will then try some alternative method. CAUTION: This is something I have picked up on here and there is no guarantee the bailiff in this case would do that, but I would expect it. Do you know if your niece sent the letter recorded delivery? If so can she confirm that the council received it? Presuming she prepared a payment plan just a reminder to stick to it. By doing so it erodes the council's ability to take a hard line. Also, has she got the name of the bailiff(s) that visited on both occasions? Wait a while and see what other CAGers have to say.

No problem. Don't expect it to be that bad.