Well done night owl, to get a letter back is more than most get, you have stood up and spoken out, and you deserve to be listened to, i was going to email the health secretary as well, about what goes on in our hospitals today how nurses are so r worked doing 3 peoples jobs most days and getting basically put on more and more, so that when they become ill and run down and have to go off sick there is even less nurses on the wards, i saw one nurse looking after 9 patients she had a newly trained care assisitant who had no idea what she was doing and no time to show her what to do, the care assistant gave my son an icecream after he had aspirated twice, who watches what the care assistant is doing when the nurse is so busy with sick patients, this has to stop they have to employ more nurses more help on the wards before patients are put at risk and nurses keel over from sheer exhaustion maybe the health minister should spend a day on one of the wards with out anyone knowing who he is and see with his own eyes what is reallt going on in the hospitals, then he might just do something about it instead of laying the red carpet down for him to take tea with the top nobs in the hospitals and every one smiling at him as he walks past hey lets wave the little flags as well shall we!!!!! maybe we should kidnapp him and tie him to a chair in a ward for a day and let him watch just how over worked and underpayed the nurses all are wonder what he would do then???

Hey nightowl good to speak to you again xx, you know me well dont you haha yes i am fiery very, but i will keep it in i wint let my self down especially in front of them and i have been told what to expect from them as well, there will be 6 of them there couldnt get hold of our solicitor today or yesterday as shes in court, so hopefully monday i will,, i have drawn up a good few questions so this is the i need proper answers i wont get that time again, i only asked for 3 people and that was the 2 doctors and one nurse who was a witness but they havent added the nurse, so no witness to what he said, i also was looking through a lot of stuff on the internet about taking treat ment down and it does say "care down" which is the words that doctor used, i have been through some of jamies notes that we have not much but up till he left london and i cant find anything that they stopped, all his sedation was still going and his paralysis meds were still running, only his nutritional food wasnt, the solicitor we are using is the solicitor for his head trauma, she will take this case as well but only for pressure ulcers as she has said it will be very hard to prove neglect with all the other things, and i agreed, and as she said we have photos of his face the day before with no mark then the next day with marks all over his face, but we dont mind as long as this doesnt happen to anymore patients i will feel it was worth the shouting,ill let you know how it goes ok you take care and dont work so hard now bye bye and thankyou for your postxx

she doesnt know about the meeting as yet if she says no do not go then we wont

No she isnt at the moment we been trying to get hold of her today but she wasnt in her office,

Hi new-me im sorry you have had to suffer this pain, especially with other medical problems as well, and your right how can they get away with this? well they can and no one stops it happening, makes you wonder are these doctors for real or do they get their certificates off ebay!!, there are a few of us on here who have been through what you have, and no matter what you write to the hospital they will never admit they did wrong!! it makes you so angry, i have an ongoing dipute with my hospital and its all on here, im sure there will be some on here who will help you new-me ther,s many who have and still are helping me, there are some wonderful people on here who listen, just be patient they will be on here, ill be watching how it all goes for you and i hope your not in to much pain now and feeling a lot better

Hi every one, well we are haing a meeting with the hospital 6th december, i asked for 3 people to be there the nurse that was the witness the doctor who said it was neglect and the doctor who put a DNAR on my son, they got back to me by phone and its now six of them going, and the nurse who is the witness isnt one of them, why did i bother, im now waiting on our solicitor to say if its ok to go to this meeting, i have bought a recorder as well and ill tell them im recording it, because with 6 of them there we wont wont hear it all so i will need to go back over stuff, our family have had a meeting also together so we can plan what questions we want to answer before we go and who,s going to ask the question, so we havent got any confustions, if they think because there are 6 of them they can intimadate us then im sorry they got the wrong people my husband has been a union man all his life and knows how to deal with people like these,i have sent emails to pals who sent it on to them, and patients UK who are very helpful, i have even emailed our MP, and i have many more yet to email, i have realised also that they will never admit the neglect so im going for the pressure ulcers my son has on his face, because i have photos of him in there ITU and photos do not lie, also i have photos that brompton hospital had sent us as well, my son shouldn't have had any pressure ulcers if the staff had done their job properly they knew how long he was going to be in prone, so the sufficient precautions are taken such as provisions of special mattress & cushions that can reduce the risks of pressure sores developing, they only did all this after they found him with this huge pressure ulcer on his head it was to late, and that's my argument, why didn't they have use of all these things ill let you know what happens OK

thankyou DD for your kind help i appreciate all you all do on here thankyouxx

the only damaging thing on our notes is lies what doctors put on there, like were mad, or threatening, or have munchowsen, all made up what the doctor wants to write in OUR files, we get labeled nutters because of them its wrong

CELTICBADBOY, you must stay with your GP and have that procedure done for your self your health, i know the NHS have a got alot of people down but dont let them beat you, dont give up what you are entitled to, doctors seems to think they can puit anything on our notes, my friend had written on her notes thats she had mental health issues so she paid for a pysichiatrts reprot herself she got the report back last week and it doesnt say anything about her having a mental health issue, who do these GP,s and doctors think they are to put things on our notes with out telling us, when you go into hospital every thing you do while your a patent it written down, yet when they do something wrong to a patient they hide it hide the notes and lie, and yet we let them examine us and make up lies, so Celticbadboy dont let them put you down stand up for yourself you are entitles to free NHS

you can see your GP records for free, but you have to sit with the GP to see them, they cannot say no, i had to pay £50.00 for my sons hospital records from the london hospital, his nursing notes are missing from the local so they say?? hidden more is the word, my sons were for just 7 weeks stay in ITU in london and you should see the size of his notes, it does take alot fo photocopying which costs money but i didnt mind paying this out as i needed to see what happened and it did show certain things that we didnt know like he was swabbed for swineflu and it was posotive yet the hospital never told us he had swineflu? so it was worth the £50.00 just send it cost a fortune the weight was high as well

i hear you night owl, i really hope they do care about their patients, i believe they do its the managers and consultants who have the last say nurses have no voice in all this, but they have to stand up and shout or they will never be heard, if they are passionate about their work and all it stands for but cant go to someone and tell what they saw or heard, then why cant they write it down annon, no one will know who wrote it but at least it will get read, some one has to start the wheels in motion it wont start by its self, surely there are nurses who hate what they see and want to speak up and if they do speak up why wont the rest of the nurses back them its the only way to stop this is speak out let the public know and let the public back the nurses all the way

thanks DD , every little helps, a lot of solicitors dont want to take cases unless the neglect is in writing they dont want to do the donkey work, they prefer it to be straight forward nothing is straightforward, i have asked for a meeting now and the nurses to be there that heard what both doctors said, they will lie i kinow it but worth a try, i know what they said its up to the doctors if they can live with their lies,it will come back to them all karma is very strong when someone does a wrong to another it gathers as it goes round they will feel it one day for sure

i think if all who work for the NHS stood up and said enough is enough, and told the country what really is happening inside the NHS then i think the nurses would get a lot of public backup, they are overwroked any one with a bit of sense can see it, but it will stay like that till they speak up make it public, tell the real truth about what they see back the patients family when they have seen incidents on the wards, if they did then the public would stand by the nurses and stand up for them, but when you go in a room with a consultant and 2 nurses and your then told that the conversation where he admitted neglect is now lost and the 2 nurses snigger at you, then they wont get the backing of the public, when we went to london for 7 weeks we had to live in nurses quarters and pay for it as well, we met some wonderful caring dedicated nurses, who not just looked after my son and others patients but also the families as well, telling us every day what they had been doing for our sick people, they worked very long hours as well but the doctors were brilliant, im not saying the whol;e hospital was great but the ITU was, there are mistakes all the times but all people want is the truth, but they wont stand up and say sorry, they hide things, and thats what makes us very angry, if they could stand up say "yes we made a mistake but we have learnt from it," then i would say well thankyou for being honest and let it go, as i did when the consultant told us it was neglect what they did to me son i thanked him for being honest and did nothing about it, but on return back to our local the same consultant said the convo had been lost and the 2 nurses smirking at us, that just rubbed salt into the wounds and made me angry im still angry and ill stay angy till they admit it,i have been in our local since all this began for a hernia repair and the nurses and dcotors were great i couldnt have fault them also my little grandson was born there last week and they have brilliant with his care as he has some problems so why was it we were treated like that

Thankyou night owl, you always say make me feel better when you leave me a psot, your such a caring lovely person, you also care what happens to the people you are looking after, and it must hurt you when you read these post and see what is happening in your profetion, the NHS used to be at the top of most peoples lists as helping sick people i was brought up to have respect for doctors, nurses just do what they are told but its the nurses that get the rants from patients & their families, not the doctors, there are not enough nurses, they are over worked underpaid for the job they are doing and i think most people would agree with me on that one, but consultants are like footballers overpaid and do nothing for their wages, but the nurses did not do my sons hygene properly i have read the only notes we have and even a nurse said when she took over her shift my sons mouth was dirty, and had blood round it, now if a nurse saw that why didnt she clean him before her shift ended so the next nurse would see he was clean, im talking about ITU here where patients are very critical and infections are rife, they imune systems are very low, and with a dirty mouth he could have got more infections through his mouth, he had his own nurse for the whole shift it was down to her to make sure he was cleaned he had a huge black hair stuck to his cut lip i asked a nurse to move this as he was intubated i didnt want to touch his mouth and make it bleed but she just ignored me and he went to london with the hair stuck in his mouth thats why the receiving hospital took photos and said his hygene was bad, the NHS need a good shake up, thankyou again night owl for your lovely post as always you cheer me up, thankyouxxxxxxxxxxxxx

we were lost no one could help us, it was horrible we couldnt stop it and i knew my son would pull through if they only waited and gave him a chance but they wouldnt wait, they just wanted to pull the plug on him because they had done something wrong they wanted to hide it,and thats why i wont let them get away with it because they lied to us

hi panthro i know your not faulting me and i wasnt having a go at you i just meant what would you have done, there was no where to go no one to ask , who can help you when your in that situation how do you stop them doing these things i dissagreed with them i told no your not putting a dnar on him he said he can and he did and i had it taken off when he was transfered, what can a person do when in this situation ,

night owl, yes my son was on a ventilator with a tube down his throat

how could i get a second opinion as you said they CAN put a DNAR on a patient and also how do you raise a court order how long does that take my son could have stopped breathing anytime , and you actually think we had time to get a court order on a weekend, no there is no way you can stop a doctor putting a DNAR on one of your family

if you were in my situation that day tell me what would you have done??

I agree pantho night owl is a credit to her proffetion and cares very deeply about her work, after all that happened to my son i had a very bad downer on doctors and nurses, but after him going to the lung hospital in london i changed my mind i saw how they worked so hard as a team, and then i met night owl on here and she has been so helpful to me i cant thank her enough, but as i said she is passionate about her job and i beleive she would welcome changes in the NHS, nightowl has answerd many questions for me things i never understood, and i now can see that not all nurses and doctors are like those in our ITU liers, if only our local would stick to what they said first, that they did neglect my son, but they didnt they said the conversation went missing from his files how convenient for them i also know when we do have that meeting they think they can get round us, and twist things but they wont i will be asking the questions and only those questions do i want answers im not sitting there listening to them waffle on about this and that im not interested, all i want to know is WHAT WENT SERIOUSLY WRONG ON THE 24th OCTOBER 2009 nothing else because what ever they did to my son is why his face is full of scars today

Thank you all for the replies xx, so doctors consultants can just put a DNAR on anyone who they think is dieing, if my son was in that bad condition how is it he was flown to london he had a very long journey to get to london and the team from leicester took off the DNAR they said they would resusitate him so why couldnt the team at the local resus my son? i had a phone call today from pals, because i sent them an email asking for a patient safety policy, i want to know what their policy is when looking after our families, i also asked for a clinical incident reporting procedure, i want to know how they report a incident and did they report my sons incident, pals asked did i want this to go further i said yes she asked me to tell her what happened, so i did, she said the next one who deals with this will be intouch with me , i wont hold my breath, she said do we want a metting i said yes with the clinical director of ITU the one who admitted neglect to us plus that doctor who said he will take my sons care, and the nurse who was present that day i gave her all their names, i told her i have photos of my son in ITU with split lips cut on his nose a haematoma over his eyebrow, and i told her what the receiving hospital said about my sons hygene was appauling when he was brought to london, and that they also took photos of my son it wont look very good for our local but well if they are going to lie then im going to prove what they did im just glad i got photos of my sons face the day before then the next day with all his face looking like hed been in a car crash, and i will take this to the papers with my photos it will look very bad for our local because why shouldnt people see just what goes on in ITU in our hospital

thankyou nightowl for that info, so when that doctor said we are going to take down my sons care, what did he mean, what care, his medication, or his nutritional feed or his ventalator, what does care mean, my son wasnt brain damaged, he was on the ventilator for his oxygen, life support but was heavly sedated as well, but the doctors and nurses said they found it hard to sedate him because he kept waking up and moving and chewing the vent, so he wasnt brain dead why the DNAR, my little grandson was resusettated 7 times in great ormond street and he was born with problems he was 4 years old when he left us, so why did they need to put a DNAR on my son so many questions with no answers, 3 days after this doctor said he was going to take his care down, the clinical director told us the doctor was wrong to have said that , and it was neglect more should have been done for my son but wasnt, his words it is neglect they know it is and i wont stop till they admit it and say sorry to our faces

they never disgust anything with us we were told they were putting a DNAR on him i shouted NO NO you wont i wont let you he said he would give my son a few more hours then take his care down not his nutitional feed or medication but his care, there was noone we could ask no one to turn to no one could stop it, what do others do in this situation do we just let them turn our loved ones off just like that is there anything we can do and say "Hey your not turning no one off " would they listen do they have to listen, who knows i can not find anything on this DNAR ruling

that sounds really good i have seen people with them, good on you for giving up, i as a past smoker found it hard but i wanted to give up so much i stuck to it, it wasnt easy, nicotine is a drug and like anything your addicted to its very hard to give it up, so well done to you all and keep going i think this page is helping many people its become a support group and thats what you all need is support your not on your own, well done again,xx

well i bought this book called HEALTH CARE LAW, and ive found something, the hospital my son was in put a DNAR on him, ONE doctor put this DNAR on him, he told us he was going to take my sons care down in a few hours and if he died he would not bring him back to the way he was at that time?? he never explained why, but in this law book i have the law is A DUTY TO EXPLAIN MISHAPS, do you remember me telling you on here, that he was in prone for 17 hours and they told us he couldnt be turned on his front because he was critical and then when they did turn it went seriously wrong which they wouldnt say what went wrong, and this is where this law book comes in handy because the law says A DUTY TO EXPLAIN MISHAPS, it says One of the major complaints made against the way in which doctors handle medical accidents is that they fail to explain what happened!!!! and this is because they fear that explainations might be seen as ADMISSIONS of LIABILITYand lead to litigations, the medical defense union has advised that"the patient is entitled to a promt sympathetic and above all TRUTHFUL ACCOUNT of what has occured PATIENTS remain in the profesional care even after accidents occur and it has been suggested that general principles indicate that failing to answer questions about their treatment might constitute MALPRACTICE, it also says unless you are stem cell dead you cannot be turned off, and the proof has to be shown that a patients is stem cell dead my son wasnt, he was turned to supine 5 days before he was flown to the other hospital so they could have moved him before that date, nothing new was done for him while in the local hospital, they did start to take his feed of him, and take parts of his care down, they wanted him to die then they wouldnt have had to answer to us, but hes alive and they will answer to us, this book tells you so much i will have these buggers, and i will not be warn down by them im a tough old boot, and they will not break me,