I have a loan from these clowns with an un-enforceable agreement and an invalid Default Notice issued. Enough reason to ignore them!!! The problem is that we want to apply for a morgage and I need to clean up my credit file. I phoned them to make an offer and they say they do not do any settlement offers anymore and only accepting the full amount - something they can forget about! Anyone with advise to let them see the day of light or is this a standard tactic?

Another one bites the dust (but not hard enough!!) - CrapOne. They simply ignored my PPI claim and just inform me to forget the refund of the theft charges. After sending the claim to the FOS they turned up with an offer. The PPI premiums plus some interst and the charges with some interest but not the required redress. Will have to push this to see whether I will get the required interest (and interest on interest). Their offer is not to be ignored but I cannot see why they should not pay the extra £200 - £300. Will see wht happens with that!

They refunded that (ID Theft Protection) as well, plus the requested interest!! My balance went from more than £600 in debit to around £200 in credit without me paying a penny!! I have to say, Barclaycard seems to be the one with whom I had the best dealings with. The others seems to take their changes are really pushing their luck. Have to see what will happens with the FOS involvement.

Maybe put Welcome on the spot? Send them a letter and ask to explain and that it is again OFT guidelines to use 2 DCA's at the same time. They will have to let you know what is going on. Usually when one became quite for a while and another raised it head, then they have past it on and that will be good news for you because they are jsut a DCA and not a solicitor. You can send these new clowns something that is called the "bemused" letter, I believe there is one in the library.

Yep, just chalenged him regarding the CrapOne account, quickly received a letter from CrapOne he is no longer valid!! It is the 4th time in my case than he is running!!! He better pick up speed because the Wasted Cost Order is coming after him!!

Had a phone conversation with and gee, they are changers!! (don't we already know that??). They stated that they refunded the interest that I have paid on the PPI premiums. Apparently the first part of your monthly payments goes towards the payment of the PPI premium and you incurred interest for the time frame between the premiums been added and the payment received. THIS IS NOT WHAT THE FOS SAY SHOULD BE DONE. They should not calculate the interest on the PPI premiums, they should do an account redress!!! This means: "The reconstruction of the credit-card account, to work out what the current balance would have been (where the account remains open) – or what the closing balance would have been (where the account has been cleared or closed) – if the consumer had made the same monthly payments but without PPI. This should be calculated by deducting the PPI premiums and the interest and charges that resulted from those premiums (including those arising because the ongoing monthly balance on the credit-card account was higher than it would have been, if the consumer had made the same payments to an account without PPI). " If there was no PPI, then the payments would have reduced the balance and you would have paid less interest each month!! The amount you would have paid interest on would be the balance after subtracting the cumulative PPI premiums, a significant difference! This is what the fos says: " if the consumer had made the same payments to an account without PPI" Therefore the point I want to make is this: Halifax DO NOT refund the correct amount of interest when refunding PPI payments!!

That is all you need!! I will have a look at mine, hopefully they add the same thing! I am putting some significant thought into this and at this stage I am sure that a current account redress similar to that of a credit card should be done. The following statement by the FOS is also important to me: "Typically, that will mean assessing redress on the basis that the consumer would not have purchased the policy, if the financial business had given a fair recommendation and/or had given appropriate information during the sale – and should be compensated if they have been out-of-pocket in the meantime. " Especially the out-of-pocket part. I think one must ask for a current account redress and NOT the refund of the PPI premiums. Such a redress should be done as follow: Add the cumulative monthly PPI premiums to the monthly balance of the current account to get the NEW balance. Add the Debit Interest of the difference between the Statement and NEW Balance to the account to get the REAL balance. Add the cumulative over limit charges, returned DD/SO/Cheques which have not resulted should the bank used the REAL balance. Should the REAL balance be in credit but the Statement balance was in Debit, add the Debit interest and 8% single interest on the credit balance to the account (this credit balance is for the out-of-pocket money). If the Statement balance was in credit but the REAL balance has a higher credit balance, add 8% on this difference (again the difference is the out-of-pocket money). The credit interest on my current account was 2% per annum for the first £1000 and nothing for the amount above. I am convinced that you can add the 8% interest for the out-of-pocket money and this could become be a significant amount! Off course the banks will not see it that way but as long as the FOS see it that way, then it is fine!! I usually do send my redress calculations to the FOS together with my complaint.

Anyone interested in using this spreadsheet just 2 points of caution. It doesn't check that the REAL balance is lower than the statement balance when an over limit charge was applied by the bank. You can manually check that and if not, simply delete that charge. This would only happen in the beginning because the amounts to be deducted increase rapidly and making the REAL balance always lower that the statement balance. The 2nd point is that there is no built check to ensure that the amount of interest been claimed back is lower that that actually applied! This can happen when the REAL balance goes into credit but the statement balance is still in debit. This can also be checked manually. I can produce an updated version with these checks at a leter stage so that it will be suitable for general use. I will be out of the country for 3 weeks and could do it then.

I assume a Rip-Off it will be!! I am having a fight with them at the moment. They refunded the premiums and a laughable amount of interest, it seems to be their policy. They have to explain how they calculated the interest according to the FOS. I succeeded in getting them to refund the over limit charges and the CORRECT interest on that and this also prove their PPI interest is wrong. I created this thread on what they should do in a proper redress: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?283603-Ensure-you-get-a-proper-account-redress-after-a-PPI-refund-including-over-limit-charges In this thread I uploaded a spreadsheet which one can use to calculate the redress: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?88004-PPI-Successes/page13&p=3194377#post3194377 I have some good experience in calculating the correct redress, let me know if you need help!

They are changers!!! I also had one with them and I DO have the signed agreement and I didn't tick the box and didn't signed that I want it, therefore I did not applied. Took them almost 8 weeks to come back with the "Offer of Goodwill". I wrote to them that they can stick their "Goodwill" up their a%$Se!! I phoned them and they say that they never advised anyone regarding PPI and that it was left to the customer to choose it and therefore they are never guilty of mis-selling PPI. Therefore as a "Goodwill Offer" they are always refunding only the premiums. They must be living on planet tutu!! They must do a proper redress and the FOS is extremely clear what that involves: Refunding the premiums Refund the interest on the premiums Refund all the charges as a direct result of these 2 points Refund the interest on the charges Refund the interest on the interest Pay 8% single interest on any credit balance after removing the above mentioned amounts Send you a statement and explanation how they calculated this redress. Should the FOS find in your favour and they feel that RBS knew (or should have known) better, then RBS must also make towards you a payment for distress and inconvenience - usually between £200 and £300. If you have the statements then you will be able to do a proper redress, the amount due to you could be potentially significantly higher. I can assist you if necessary. The FOS requirements for a proper redress is here: http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/ppi/redress.html

PPI seems to be one issue where consumer do get their fair share :becky: and have significant successes against the greed :mad2: of the banks and credit card companies. Getting a positive result when claiming the mis-selling of PPI is only part of the story. One has to ensure that the involved Financial Institution do a proper redress of the credit card or loan account when refunding the customer. It seems that many of them set up fix protocols what should be refunded and how to do it. Many of these fall well short of the recommendations of the fos how such a redress should take place: http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...i/redress.html This is clear guidelines and they do state that every case is different and the way in which the redress should be done would be different from case to case but the principles stay the same: Putting the consumer back into the position they would have been in but for the failure on the part of the financial business. Redressing on the basis that the consumer would not have purchased the policy and should be compensated if they have been out-of-pocket in the meantime. The reconstruction of the account, to work out what the current balance would have been if the consumer had made the same monthly payments but without PP I. This should be calculated by deducting the PPI premiums and the interest and charges that resulted from those premiums (including those arising because the ongoing monthly balance on the account was higher than it would have been, if the consumer had made the same payments to an account without PPI). For credit cards this means: Refund of the premiums Refund of the actual interest paid on the premiums Should you exceed your credit limit as a result of this, refund of that over limit charge Interest on all these over limit charges Interest on the interest charged on the premiums and charges 8% per annum single interest should the account be in credit at any stage after removing all these amounts A statement showing the resulting balance on the account – to be sent to the you along with details of how it was calculated. Remember: These premiums, charges and various interest are cumulative, you start with those of month 1, you add the next months to that to get the new REAL balance, continue in this way for each month to get the REAL balance. This should also take place: Correcting all credit reference agencies entries to reflect the status of the account but for the failure on the part of the financial business. The bottom line in the account redress is: To put you back where you would have been should you have made the same monthly payments but without the premiums leaving your account. It depends how many charges you have but on average this removes around 2/3rds of the outstanding balance in all my cases.

Received a letter from Halifax (Aqua card) today and they refunded all the over limit charges PLUS the correct interest PLUS the interest on the interest! They stubbornly refused to refund the charges before, I tried all the angles I could but in the end PPI did the trick! Just have to get the right PPI interest out of them now!!

To me it is extremely easy to substantiate! Especially if you use the view point by the FOS: You should re-calculate your balance as if you made the same payments but the PPI premiums never left the account If the premiums were never applied and never incurred interest, remove those 2 amounts from the balance and should this balance be lower than the limit, you would not have incurred a charge, if there is a charge, then the PPI is to blame!! Received a letter from Halifax (Aqua card) today and they folded!! I never applied for PPI and they refunded the premiums and a small amount of interest. I was going on about the charges for ages and they utterly refused. After applying the pressure on them relentlessly after the refunding of the PPI, they caved in and refunded all over limit charges, together with the correct amount of the various interests! What is still outstanding is the correct amount of PPI interest to be refunded and the charges interests also proof the PPI interests are wrong. This is a credit card but I cannot see that one cannot get the same result with these current accounts!!

I spend some time thinking about it and created this thread to see what other people think: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?283400-Claiming-back-bank-charges-%E2%80%93-The-PPI-approach I assume one cannot add the 8% interest to your current account balance but you should certainly add the debit interest over paid as a result of these premiums, the premiums, ineterst and the charges will quickly add up to a credit balance and one should also claim the credit current account interest after calculating the REAL balance.

PPI seems to be one issue where consumer do get their fair share :becky: and have significant successes against the greed :mad2: of the banks and credit card companies. Getting a positive result when claiming the mis-selling of PPI is only part of the story. One has to ensure that the involved Financial Institution do a proper redress of the credit card or loan account when refunding the customer. It seems that many of them set up fix protocols what should be refunded and how to do it. Many of these fall well short of the recommendations of the FOS how such a redress should take place: http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/ppi/redress.html This is clear guidelines and they do state that every case is different and the way in which the redress should be done would be different from case to case but the principles stay the same: 1. Putting the consumer back into the position they would have been in but for the failure on the part of the financial business. Redressing on the basis that the consumer would not have purchased the policy and should be compensated if they have been out-of-pocket in the meantime. The reconstruction of the account, to work out what the current balance would have been if the consumer had made the same monthly payments but without PPI. This should be calculated by deducting the PPI premiums and the interest and charges that resulted from those premiums (including those arising because the ongoing monthly balance on the account was higher than it would have been, if the consumer had made the same payments to an account without PPI). This is the approach of the FOS and the examples they provided is for loans and PPI on credit card accounts but they do stress that it is only examples and that the principals stays the same. Let us now consider a common situation: You have a current account with Greedy Bank You also took out a loan with Greedy Bank This loan is served by payments from the current account PPI was sold by Greedy Bank with the loan The PPI was mis-sold and you received a confirmation either from Greedy Bank or the FOS I can see no reason for why the current account should not be redressed when they refund the PPI. This means: Refunding all debit interest which would have been lower than those charged but for the failure on the part of the financial business. Refunding all credit interest which would have been higher than those charged but for the failure on the part of the financial business. Refunding of all charges but for the failure on the part of the financial business. Interest on these charges. Correcting all Credit Reference Agencies entries to reflect the status of the account but for the failure on the part of the financial business. A statement showing the resulting balance on the account – to be sent to the customer along with details of how it was calculated. You should do a redress calculation yourself to ensure it is properly done and you will need all your statements. This could be an extensive task but the returns could be potentially huge!! For every month you will have to add all the monthly premiums to your balance and calculate the relevant debit and credit interest differences and add that. Should the balance be below the limit and over limit charges added, then this charge should be added from your balance. Should there have been enough funds to service a returned DD/SO/Cheque, then this charge should be added as well and the debit and credit interest differences added. The premiums, charges and various interests should be cumulative and that will let the balance grow exponentially with a huge amount of credit interest. In most cases this will eliminate all but the earliest charges. Off course the banks will through all sorts of arguments!! An example is that you could serve the loan from another account. In my case they asked whether my salary are paid into my current account when applying for the loan and it seems that it would have been difficult to obtain the loan should I not paid it from the current account. Anyway I had no other option than to pay it from that particular current account. There could be other arguments but I believe they can be defeated. I had some successes on credit cards getting back the charges and I referred others to the FOS, after they refunded the premiums and some interest but failed to do a proper redress. I posted this on the relevant thread and stated the fact that a redress should include the charges and landy_alert raised this point, therefore I should thank her for that because that let me start to think that this should be a valid option. I have a loan PPI claim with the FOS now and will add this to “test drive” this argument and will post any updates on that.

I spoke to them today but the guy didn't sound to be too informed but we discussed the issues and he basically agree with me that the signed credit agreement is personal data. Regarding the issue of statements: They are not personal data but all the transactions on the account are. If they do not provide you with statements then they have to provide the data in another form and sending statements is the easiest. That is the way I see it and he basically agreed. Also the phone conversation is personal data and should be supplied. I did send a letter to Vanquis today, whether it will be a waste of time I will find out. The impression that I received when speaking to them is similar when I had discussions about account redressing after a PPI refund with other cc companies. The banks created protocols how this should be done and the people you speak to just follow these protocols, they cannot do anything outside of it and they do not have the power, therefore you have to speak or communicate with someone much higher up the food chain. I made this fact clear in the letter that someone senior should deal with it, whether that will work is any ones guest. I did tried a trick in the letter though. I spelled it out to them in the letter the reasons why I require the info and it is to claim back the "PPI" and that I need the info to calculate the proper account redress. I tried it to good effect before and maybe they will start the PPI complaint and I will get the recording, should they decline it then by that time I will probably have everything I need and can then start the claim again or refer it to the FOS, but with the correct info to my disposal. I can built my case around what has been said in the sales conversation. They cannot ask why didn't I said the things in the original claim because I didn't made a claim. I will wait and see what come of it.

I frimly believe that getting the PPI refunded is only half the story, a proper redress is just as, or even more, important. the crucial FOS statements are these: "Our normal approach is to try to put the consumer back into the position they would have been in but for the failure on the part of the financial business. " "The reconstruction of the credit-card account, to work out what the current balance would have been (where the account remains open) – or what the closing balance would have been (where the account has been cleared or closed) – if the consumer had made the same monthly payments but without PPI." To put you back where you would have been should you have made the same monthly payments but without the premiums leaving your account. This open all the issues mentioned above but also credit file entries! The balances that were reported were incorrect, default notices issued could be miles out in the amount of arrears. etc. It could well be that a default notice was isued and a Default registered on the credit file when the account was actually in credit! (CrapOne in my case).

I agree with your assessment but the main thing for me is time. I was thinking of phoning the ICO today and see what they say, unsure whether I will get a traight answer. I think a should make a formal complaint anyway, just to ensure they din't get off the hook.

Here is an example of the spreadsheet i used. Should anyone want to use it, do it at your own risk. I removed my personal data, hopefully that didn't messed up things. You will have to fill in the cyan parts. Redress.xls

These calculation is for Credit Cards. In a fix amount loan the interest are in the premiums but the FOS recommendations is that you should get back 8% single interest. Therefore you could calculate the cumulative premiums for every month and add that to your current account balance. If that reduce your over draft amount for that month to below the limit, then you should get back the over limit fee. I believe that you can add the 8% as well because the recommendations state that it should be calculated from the date of the premium been paid until the date of refund, clearly indicating that the bank owes you that money from the date it left your account. I believe this argument to be in line with the general line of argument and I thought your situation is rather interesting until I realised I have a similar situation!! HSBC refused to refund the theft charges on my current account. I claimed back the PPI but they refused the one policy on the loan and I have referred that to the FOS. I send other claims to them and will see what comes out of that but this is certain a very worthwhile line to follow!!! This could be a very good way of getting bank charges back!! These premiums will probably take care of most of the over limit fees and declined DD/SO charges. Probably also for bounced cheques, what about claiming for damages in these cases????

This is the way I worked it out and I applied it on the FOS examples. These examples do not include charges on the values provided but the various interest work the same. I believe my arguments are correct but it is still only my interpretation. You will need all your statements to get the relevant balances and interest you paid, as well as the PPI premiums and charges. Take the balance of the first month and calculate the interest of the PPI premium (this is similar as the interest claims on the bank charges thread and the spreadsheet in that thread, I think the thread is by Bankfodder). You can do that by dividing the interest by the balance and multiply the PPI premium by that (or you can calculate a %). Add the next months premium to the previous months' premium (the bank do owe you now 2 premiums) and calculate the interest on that by creating a cumulative PPI premiums column, always use the cumulative column for interest calculations because that what is owed to you. Create a column of the cumulative interest paid (they add up every month) and a column where you add the cumulative premiums and cumulative interest (this is the amount that are owed to you by the bank). Deduct this column from the statement balance to give the REAL balance. If you incur an over limit charge but the REAL balance is below your credit limit, then add this charge to a column for charges. Calculate the interest on these charges similar to that of the PPI premiums. Create also a column for cumulative charges and cumulative interest on the charges. Calculate the interest on the cumulative column because that is what the bank also owe you. Create a column where you add the cumulative interest on the PPI premiums and cumulative interest on the charges. Now calculate the interest on that. Once again, create a column for the cumulative interest on interest and also subtract this from the statement balance to get the REAL balance. Other words, create a column where you add the cumm PPI, cumm interest on that, cumm charges, cumm int on charges and cumm interest on interest. Subtract this from the statement balance every month to give every months' REAL balance. Should this REAL balance go into credit, calculate 8% simple interest on the balance (for every month in credit it is 8/12% on the REAL balance of that month and here you do not use the cumulative values). It could be that the earliest over limit charges will be applicable but very soon no one will be valid anymore and by deducting the invalid one makes the changes that the rest are invalid more likely because they do accumulate. Remember that these premiums have the following ramifications: The banks charge interest on them. They can be the only reason for be over your limit and the banks add charges as a direct result of the PPI premiums. The banks charge interest on these charges as well. The banks continue to charge interest on the interest. In the end it adds up to a significant amount!! I found that by removing all these amounts usually wipes out about 2/3rds of the balance!! (Given that there are a number of charges). To me this is one of the best ways of getting these theft charges back!! I also ask for all the charges to be refunded because it would be hard for them to argue not to give it if they refunded most and it seems that the FOS also believe some late payment charges should be refunded. In my complaints to the FOS I included these calculations and I made extensive use of their recommendations in my complaint but I do send a follow up letter to the bank including these recommendations and calculations, therefore, should they still refuse to do a proper redress, then they have no excuse and I do ask the FOS for consideration of a payment for distress and inconvenience because the financial business rejected the redress that it knew (or should have known) that the ombudsman service would uphold.The FOS usually grant a £200 -£300 payment for it.

I got a very good result with the one which came the closest to not being mis-sold - Barclaycard. They refunded more money for the PPI as which I claimed and they also refunded the charges plus interest. I am waiting for the last claim from them - mis-sold ID Theft protection. RBS and HBOS went off to the FOS. I didn't apply at all for PPI, therefore it is no-sold! They refunded, HBOS the premiums + some interest and RBS only the premiums, but refused the required redress. I am claiming the following when claimimg back PPI: 1. The premiums 2. Interest on it 3. The theft charges as a direct result of the premiums+interest 4. The interest on the theft charges 5. The interest on the interest on the premiums and interest on the theft charges 6. 8% single interest when the account was in credit after the removal of all these amounts 7. A statement and a detail explanation how the redress has been made. I based these claims on the recommendations of the FOS: http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/ppi/redress.html I created and fine tuned a spreadsheet to calculate the redress and I tested it with some of the examples from their web site and are confident that it works fine. Can provide it to anyone interested in it. The FOS make it clear that a redress should be done in such a way that it will put the account back in the position it would have been should the PPI premium not been made while the same monthly payments has been made. taking this into consideration then all the above mentioned amounts make sense. The FOS DO mention charges by name and they even mention late payment charges, not only the over limit fees. The FOS also requires that the company send you a statement and a detail explanation how the redress has been made. P.S. After a SAR to Barclaycard I received the transcript of my phone conversation when they sold the PPI , which contains standard questions. I built my claim around that converstaion. I can post the standard question as well as my claim should anyone ask for it. The claim worked like a charm, I send it in and 4 weeks later received a very positive response with them stating that they failed to provide me with the correct info when selling the PPI

I made a number of PPI claims but I only do that when I can calculate the complete redress as stated by the FOS: http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/ppi/redress.html I made a SAR to Vanquis a while ago so that I can have the statements and Credit Agreement (some companies issued PPI even when I didn't tick the box). They responded with an incomplete response. After been left on the back burner for a couple on months I decided to phone them and asked why they didn't send all the information. Their response: "They do not have to provide me with the signed copy of the Credit Agreement (or any copy) when making a SAR, the only time they have to provide a signed copy of the agreement is when they take you to court" I disagree, a credit Agreement is personal data and the signed copy is personal data of me they are holding. Can somebody shed some light on it? "They do not have to provide statements, they can provide copy statements on request and this cost £5 per statement according to the credit agreement." I believe statements is not personal data but the printouts they provided me with only contains very limited information about the history of the account, not nearly enough to even calculate the PPI premiums. All other CC provided statements and I do not see why I have to pay that much information regarding the history of the account. Any ideas? "I can claim the PPI (Repayment Option Plan as they call it, still PPI) and they will investigate it by listening to the recording of the phone conversation when it was sold. If I am unhappy with their decision I can request a copy of the recording." Well, isn't such a recording personal information? If I can request it after the complaint, certainly they have to send it with a SAR? Anyone can comment on it? I need that information to be able to proper construct my complaint and not to make statements that could be untrue because I could not remember the details.

Maybe you could hit the tri-angle at the bottom and ask admin for help?

Any charges? The view of the FOS is as follow: "Taking account of these considerations, our normal approach is to try to put the consumer back into the position they would have been in but for the failure on the part of the financial business." It means that the account must be redressed should you have paid the same amount but they didn't take the PPI premiums. Therefore when doing the calculations, you have to end up at that point!