The ICO issued guidance regarding Defaults been registered on credit files and is very clear that should you make lower payments when on a DMP then they SHOULD NOT be registered as defaults on your credit files. CrapOne has it in their t&c's but I believe that one can argue that it is an unfair term. The "Default Notice" what they send should contain a remedy to be taken and the only remedy in these cases would be NOT to do on a DMP. Surely there must be very strong grounds to get these defaults removed. http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/default_tgn_version_v3%20%20doc.pdf

I want to start legal action against 3 companies which have illegal defaults on my credit files. At this stage I only want to force them to remove it and do not want to claim any money. Therefore the MCO will not be suited. Which procedure should I follow and which forms should I complete? Is this for the County or Magistrates court? I would really appreciate some advice because the woman I spoke to at the local county court has only air between her ears

We all know that FSF ignore many things put to them in writing which they should not do. Let us have look at them not responding to the Section 10 Notice. Here is the actual Section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1998: 10. - (1) Subject to subsection (2), an individual is entitled at any time by notice in writing to a data controller to require the data controller at the end of such period as is reasonable in the circumstances to cease, or not to begin, processing, or processing for a specified purpose or in a specified manner, any personal data in respect of which he is the data subject, on the ground that, for specified reasons- (a) the processing of those data or their processing for that purpose or in that manner is causing or is likely to cause substantial damage or substantial distress to him or to another, and (b) that damage or distress is or would be unwarranted. (2) Subsection (1) does not apply- (a) in a case where any of the conditions in paragraphs 1 to 4 of Schedule 2 is met, or (b) in such other cases as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State by order. (3) The data controller must within twenty-one days of receiving a notice under subsection (1) ("the data subject notice") give the individual who gave it a written notice- (a) stating that he has complied or intends to comply with the data subject notice, or (b) stating his reasons for regarding the data subject notice as to any extent unjustified and the extent (if any) to which he has complied or intends to comply with it. There are 2 points that need attention: … or not to begin, processing, or processing for a specified purpose or in a specified manner, any personal data in respect of which he is the data subject … The data controller must within twenty-one days of receiving a notice under subsection (1) ("the data subject notice") give the individual who gave it a written notice … You state clearly that they should not begin new negotiations and that doing that will cause you distress and secondly that you require a written response from them: 1. Failing to respond is breaching the DPA 1998. 2. and starting new negotiations without providing legitimate reasons for doing so in such a response is also breaching the DPA 1998. Note: FSA CASS 7 is NOT a legitimate reason (see earlier post). There is also something to remember: All Data Controllers have a duty to protect your data, and must hold a Data Protection Act licence (issued by the Information Commissioners Office) to hold and process data. However, this licence does not allow them to disclose data without your express written permission – it is a criminal offence to do otherwise, except for reasons of national security, taxation, health, etc.

It is YOUR money and should come back to you, PLUS the interest what they have drawn on it. They will most certainly not give it back to you and you will have to great lengths to get it back!! But if you are prepared to walk the walk then you will get it back, plus interest! Why do they claim that they have to pay your creditors and not return it to you? See post 332. You can read about the FSA's Client Money Rules yourself and decide for yourself whether you believe whether it is applicable. I believe it NOT to be applicable. Look at it this way, say there is for example £8000 on your "pot". If they send it all back you then they will be gaining nothing from it. If they make some last minute Full and Final settlement deals and say that they get a settlement deal of 50% on it. Therefore they can debts of around £16 000 and therefore they can take 25% from £8000, which is £2000. A huge difference!! Therefore they are desperately to make these deals, even if it means breaking the law!! You probably have far less money in this "pot". Your accounts did increased as a result of penalty fees, interest over time. Whether they have successfully claimed back any penalty fees or PPI you will know but all your initial payments is to pay them!! They seems to have in the agreement that you signed that you will pay them 8% of your total debt for the "work" they will do. Most of the initial payments is towards this 8%. If you are continue to cancel then there are plenty of helpful stuff you can get from here to assist you and it would be worthwhile to spend some time to decide exactly how you will do it to ensure that they do not get away with their illegal stuff! I will certainly give you all what I have learned and you can decide whether you want to use it. Regrading their claim that they are obliged to pay your creditors under the FSA Money Rules: I have made my standpoint clear in post 332 but it would be useful if other people can add their opinion, maybe DD? You can also read it and make your own conclusion. If you put it to them that you do not believe that they are obliged to pay your creditors after cancellation under these Money Rules then they will certainly ignore that, remember that trying to negotiating with them is similar in trying to negotiate with a Parrot! One must always remember that any correspondence which you write is also for the benefit of 3rd parties. If you write to them and you realise that it is a waste of time, continue to do it, and to do it properly, because it is most likely that a third party (i.e. the FOS, a judge, etc.) will read this and these parties will give it the due respect that it deserves.

Just remember they are reading this thread as well (and occasionally tried to post, aka Prima) and they HATE it!!! They have tried their best to defeat it without much luck!! By posting this information here makes it easy for them to recognise you (they do not have that many clients and only one will have these accounts and other info). Not to worry at all!!! If you receive a grumpy email or letter from Ms Walker telling you they are monitoring your post here and that it is bad for you, bad for the planet and the continued existence of the human race, global warming, will lead to the extinction of the dolphins or whatever crap so can cook up, treat it with the utter disrespect that it deserves!! It is a sign of their complete desperation! There is nothing what they can do and you are in your complete right to do it. AND the information on here contains a lot of very useful things and is not inaccurate as what they are desperately trying to convince people. The bottom line is that the information gained from here is bad for them and they do not like it that people are getting informed.

I G N O R E !!! Seems to work for me!!

mmmmmmmmm

Wonder who the guest is, something from Stockport Circus??

Part 2: What can you claim back from them when cancelling? If you cancel for the first 2 reasons then what you can claim back is very straightforward. You can claim back everything you have paid them for the duration of the agreement minus the actual money paid to customers before the date of your cancellation. Any money paid to creditors paid after cancellation must be returned to you. Furthermore you can claim interest at a rate of 8% simple from the date each payment was made until the date of the settlement. If you cancel for any other reason then they can only take a reasonable amount for work done and the agreed fees as well as all payments made to customers before the date of cancellation. Some points to remember: Remember trying to negotiate with FCF is like trying to negotiate with a Parrot. The pluck some outrageous, incorrect and often laughable arguments out of the air and no matter what you say, which documents, statements or arguments you provide, they will just keep on repeating them. They will state how wonderful they are and that it is entirely your fault. Therefore do not expect any results from your efforts but these efforts will certainly be in you benefit when you take it further. Also, the Compliance Manager is you best ally!! She will provide you with enough ammunition to shoot them down many times with the utter nonsense she comes up with. Furthermore this rubbish is often very easy to disprove and therefore will completely destroy any credibility they may have!!

The third reason for cancelling: you have decided for whatever reason you no longer want to continue: If you cancel not as a result of either poor service or mis-selling then they are entitled to take a certain amount of fees. Here is it extremely important that you make sure that they only take what they are entitled to and that they return everything in the so-called “pot” together with interest gained by them in this money. They can argue that they have done a lot of work initially with little benefit and that this benefit will only come to fulfilment at a later stage. You cancelling earlier rob them of this benefit and therefore they will have to charge you for each individual piece of work. This is a very grey area and they certainly try to exploit it. Sending a standard template letter to your creditor certainly does not cost them £50. You phoning them do not cast that either. They are only entitled to claim the real cost of the activity. Any outrageous costs by them will need to be proved and you certainly can ask them to provide evidence of the cost. An important point is that you did not agree to these costs for these activities! An itemised bill should only reflect their real cost and not include any unnecessary activities and activities you did nor agreed upon. Let us now look at the money left that you have paid them, the money in the so-called “pot”. FCF claims that they are obliged to pay your money in their possession to your creditors upon cancellation. Their argument is that this is due to something called FSA CASS7, or better known as the Client Money Rules. They are NOT regulated by the FSA but by the OFT and the MoJ. (The OFT regulates their Debt management activities and the MoJ regulates their debt challenging activities). None of these institutions provides any guidance on the handling of these funds been paid to them. Therefore they argued that they have to adhere to the rules laid down by the FSA and that all the payments that you make are under these rules. This argument is severely flawed. The first flaw is that they are not regulated by the FSA but let us look at what the Client Money Rules actually says. The Client Money Rules These rules are laid down in the handbook of the FSA and the following statements are duplicated from it. The client money rules applies to a firm that receives money from or holds money for, or on behalf of, a client in the course of, or in connection with: • its MiFID business; and/or • its designated investment business, that is not MiFID business in respect of any investment agreement entered into, or to be entered into, with or for a client; unless otherwise specified in this section. What is meant by a client according to these rules and how do the FSA define a client in these rules? Client - a person to whom a firm provides, intends to provide or has provided a service in the course of carrying on a regulated activity, or in the case of MiFID or equivalent third country business, an ancillary service; Definition of MiFID from Wikipedia: The Markets in Financial Instruments Directive 2004/39/EC (known as "MiFID" ) as subsequently amended is a European Union law that provides harmonised regulation for investment services across the 30 member states of the European Economic Area. It clearly states that these rules apply for either the case of a regulated activity or for an ancillary service in the case of MiFID or equivalent third country business. FSF is clearly not a MiFID or equivalent third country business and seeing that the activity they employ where they receive money from clients, keeping it in an account or even trust, paying creditors only “token” payments in an attempt to make them “desperate” to accept a low full and final settlement is NOT a regulated activity, making these rules not applicable. They claim that the money are pledged to creditors and that the payments are been made to them under the Client Money Rules. Firstly they do not inform any client upon signing up that payments are been made under these rules and even if they do state that, they are certainly not made under these rules because they are not regulated by the FSA and as established earlier, these rules do not apply to the activity they are involved in. No details are provided by them regarding any pledging of money to creditors. To the best of my knowledge they do not really pledge it to any creditors but is some cases they have some lame sentence at the end of some correspondence that a creditor must not take any action because they (FCF) keep your money to one day make this creditor an offer. Whether they actual do that to all creditors and what the correct process is, is anyway irrelevant because these rules do not apply. It is my conviction that they try to use these rules in a lousy attempt to justify paying YOUR money to the creditors upon cancellation so that they can squeeze the last drop of blood out of your hard earned money. Please, if you disagree with me, do say it and state why you do. A proper debate can only help to strengthen these arguments and benefit people who need to get rid of them, These arguments is not necessary applicable for cancelling for the third reason and is applicable throughout.

The second reason is the mis-selling of their services: It is an extremely important point and happens almost every time and that is something that can be proved. Recording all their calls right from the start would be invaluable but it is unlikely that you would have done that, but whenever you have the opportunity, do it!! Let us look why they are actually mis-selling their services. FCF operates along 3 lines. A. The first part is an attempt to reduce the debt by trying to establish which credit agreements are enforceable and which isn’t. Also they are trying to claim back any miss-sold PPI and are trying to get back any fees levied. Any such debt challenging activities are regulated by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ). B. Secondly they are involved in Debt Management activities by setting up payment schedules with certain creditors and paying them the arranged payments. These activities are regulated by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT). C. Lastly they keep your money in an account and make only token payments (usually £1 per month) towards creditors where the credit agreement is enforceable and attempt to make the creditor “desperate” so that the creditor will accept a low and full and final settlement. This activity is not a regulated activity and therefore is not regulated by any authority. The first 2 activities are fine but there are serious problems with the third. In the agreement you sign with them they pledge they will do the following: 1. Identify situations where you may have grounds for challenging the liability for the debt(s) listed on the Debt Schedule and challenge where appropriate. 2. Negotiate a reduction in the monthly unsecured payments to a figure of not more than £xxx.xx per month, if requested by you. This work does not include anything not listed in the Debt Schedule. 3. We will seek to freeze interest and charges being added to your account before making payment to your creditors (except in cases where there is a charge been placed on the property). 4. Pay the relevant agreed amount monthly on your behalf to the creditor(s), except where the debt is in dispute. 5. Keep you informed of progress by monthly maintenance calls outlining all activity on the account. Advise you on any matters relating to action taken by creditors to recover debts (e.g. court forms and procedures). 6. We will assist you to defend any court action commenced by creditors that relates to the debts listed on the Debt Schedule. 7. Refer out other issues that fall beyond our field of expertise. Now let us look in which category do all these points fall. Point 1 falls in category A. Points 2-4 falls in category B, which are clearly debt management activities. The remainder of the points are administration and auxiliary activities. Nowhere in the agreement is the activity of category C mentioned. Looking at more detail at the agreement one will notice that they pledge that they will seek any debt reduction, if they cannot they will revert to normal debt management activities. The first problem with the third activity is that it is not regulated. The second problem is that it is not mentioned in the agreement you signed with them. The third and very important point is that it has severe consequences for you with little or no benefit. Not paying your creditors will certainly lead to an increase in your debt by them adding non-payment and over limit charges as well as interest. It is not a given that the creditors will freeze interest and certainly not a give that any charges will be refunded, especially after the OFT court case. This will also lead to defaults registered on your credit files, significantly increase the amount and level of harassment from your creditors, continuous phone harassment, non-stop threatening letter, legal and debt collector activities, door step visitors, court action, possible repossession and/or charging orders. All this is a direct result of the non-payment of the creditors and the keeping of your funds so that the will become “desperate” enough to eventually accept a low full and final settlement offer. This is no guarantee that the strategy will work and that they will accept a low F&F settlement. From this settlement you will have to deduct the 25% they take as well as the 8% they state in the agreement, significantly reducing the amount caused by the F&F settlement. Ask yourself, is it in your interest to be subject to all this for this small possible gain? They, on the hand, do gain significantly from this and are not subject to any of these consequences. The main beneficiary of this activity is mainly them with dire consequences to you. I believe this activity is immoral and they should be prevented from doing it! The least that they should do is to be open about it! One extremely important point is that they do not mention at all in the agreement that they will not pay your creditors for months on end. Therefore you were not informed when signing the agreement and you did not give your consent. This alone is enough to establish that they miss-sold their services. Any miss-information given in the sales call could also beneficial proving the miss-selling and any witnesses with whom you discussed it could be useful. Anyway, non-payment is something that is frowned upon by most institutions and do not go down well in general. Therefore if they do not do what they told you they will do and what you agreed upon in the signed agreement then you certainly have a strong case for miss-selling and you can claim back almost everything you have paid towards them plus interest. Things that should be known beforehand is that there is no guarantee that the creditors will freeze interest and charges, will accept token payments and/or even consider F&F settlements. As a matter of fact the making of F&F settlements (and the whole process involved in it) is not even mentioned in the agreement! You will have to properly document why you believe they miss-sold their services based on what you were told and what you agreed upon in the signed agreement as compared to what they have done. Once again, this is also for the benefit of third parties and they will once again most certainly simply deny anything you say but you have to try to negotiate with them and demonstrate that you are reasonable, no matter how they behave.

Let us now turn our attention to the first reason: very poor service. It is important that you build your case properly. It is a given that FCF will ignore your points and try to place all the blame on you. That is their standard strategy. It doesn’t matter because you do not build the case only for their information, you will need that should it proceeds any further, i.e. referring it to the FOS and/or legal action. You have to demonstrate why you claim that you were subject to very poor service and you have to provide them the opportunity to respond, even if they refuse to acknowledge any of your points. Therefore always keep in mind that you are also writing it for the benefit of other parties. It will be very helpful if you have made a complaint or complaints before, this will be especially true if you made a formal complaint and you have all the details at hand, your letter and their response illustrating that they did not acknowledge that anything is wrong and/or that they have done nothing regarding these points since then. It will also be helpful if you have noted every time you have raised it over the phone. Recording these calls (remember the rules about informing that you are recording it!) could also be helpful. Do not despair if you have none of this but you will have to compile a list of all the aspects of the poor service. Examples are: 1. Not receiving regular updates. 2. Poor information in these updates. 3. They did not respond to your instructions what to do with certain accounts. 4. They did not follow up when they do not receive the required information from the creditors. 5. You have to provide them with the same information over and over again before they respond. 6. You have to provide them with a change of your address a number of times before it is noted on your file. 7. They do not return phone calls as promised. 8. They do not respond to you informing about harassment from creditors. 9. The list is endless and you will have to compile your own based on your own experiences. Remember that the fact that you received a very poor service is very important and it will mean that they are not entitled to take any fees from you at all. Therefore, if that is one of the reasons, do spend some time to get it documented properly. The existence of correspondence and documentation to back your statements up is very important.

Cancelling your involvement with First Step Finance I have decided to extend an earlier posting based on what I have learned about getting rid of this outfit. This is purely based on my experience and what I have learned and feel free to disagree with me. I only post it so that others can benefit from my experience. I will spread it over more than one post so that it is easier to follow. Part 1: Why are you cancelling? Let us look in more detail about cancelling your involvement with this outfit. The first thing is to define your reasons for doing it because that will determine your strategy. Each situation is different and there can be many different reasons but I will look at 3 reasons that could be the most common. 1. Their extremely poor service (the most common). 2. The mis-selling of their “plan” (a give at this stage). 3. You simply want to discontinue and belief it is not worthwhile to continue. We have to honest and straight here. Nobody can tell you what to do but if your reason is the third or any other reason than the first 2 then you cannot use the arguments for these first 2. What you do is completely up to you but if you believe that they did not provide a poor service (extremely unlikely), or that they did not mis-sold what they were doing then it is not right to use these arguments. If your reason is the third or something similar than you should still claim back a significant amount of money from them and you will have to make sure that they only take what they are obliged to take. I will have a look at that at a later stage.

Any more entertaining emails from Ms Walker?

I have to admit, these clowns never ceases to amaze me!!! If you are trying to deceive people or just outright lie, Ms Walker, at least you should not do it in such a way that it is the easiest thing for the other party to produce documents, statements, etc. disproving you!! yee, yee,…. I understand that you do not have the slightest clue what is fact and what is fiction! But at least, try!! or ask someone else… yes, yes, yes, I know there is no one at FCF you can ask ... then it is far better to refrain from these practises!!! You cannot understand what I mean???? huh??

Just a word of caution here, they are known for excerting pressure on people at this stage if they do not want to continue. They will tell you that the people posting here is disgrumbled old clients that can blame only themselves for the mess created and that they (FSF) are the embodiement of perfection. Apparently what people are posting is incorrect and inaccurate and lies and whos knows what, (especially me ) and that you should ignore us. True, this is postings from people who you do not know but this is such a wide range of people, many with utter horror stories. Ask yourself, what have they to gain from not telling it correctly as they have experienced it and that the shear number of people cannot all be "bad apples". There is also the fact that the OFT wants to take away their license, apparentlt the OFT "do not understand"; them, well, this type of decision by the OFT is based on the number of complaints they receive and a decision from the OFT is something one have to take seriously. The second thing they seems to get engaged in is to try to threaten or scare people in an attempt to convince them that it is too late to pull out and that this will cost the person money if they do so. Lies and utter nonsense!! You haven't signed anything yet and even after signing there is a cool off period required by law. If they states that they have already contacted some of your creditors and that they will invoice you, one can then just tell them it is time to celebrate, because Christmas has come early!! for they will have to pay you a significant amount for breaking the law. They do have an utter disregard for the law but that would be just another of the lies they use to try to convice people to sign up. They are only interested in one thing and one thing only: To make money out of your situation!! People in these situation has enough hardship and can really do without this type of blood sucker on their backs!!

I have send you a PM asking to send me the link if you created a new thread. You can have a look at this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?88004-PPI-Successes&p=3191205#post3191205

Yes, HSBC.... this is the account that showed how useless FCF really is. I had 4 PPI policies and FCF tried to claim the last one but HSBC with their useless generic way of claiming and HSBC told them to take a hike. FCF will ceratinly not get all the interest back should they occasionally succeed. I got an offer from HSBC now on all 4 the policies with a significant amount of interest but haven't accept it yet because the credit agreement states that I must service the loan from my current account. Therefore I can use the PPI to get back the penalty charges on my current account, something that is very difficult now after the recent high court judgment. The outstanding amount was almost £6000 and this will be wiped out and I will get back around £4000 from them while FCF only tried to get back around £2000 and failed!! Once you have accepted their PPI offer you cannot do back. I do not know exactly what your circumstance is but maybe you could have got more, maybe not, but it is done. Can you clarify by what you mean about the 2 cards when you are saying no claims made? Do you mean nothing about charges or does it include PPI? I can redirect you to other threads regarding these issues because we should not use this thread to discuss the account in detail. I would suggest to firts get everything from them before you make an offer, you will save more. It will probable be the best if you start a new thread and we can discuss it there and you will also get input from others.

I was just thinking today that I will have to do a posting here at regular intervals that will ensure that the thread will continue to have a high ranking in google so that when someone search for First Step Finance, they will find this thread very high up.

Anyway, from the website of FCF, the "testimonals" part: "Advice was second to none". "Excellent service right from the start". "Regular calls". These are just a few things our clients have said about us.

To be honest, challenging the contracts is not necessary the best way of dealing with your debts. Do understand my correctly, it is a way but there could be better options and the best one, by far in my experience is PPI. If there are PPI then you look at mis-selling and the changes are good that there will be plenty of it. Then you can get the premiums back, the interest as a result of it, the charges that could be a result of it, the interest on the charges and this could easily wipe out about 2/3 rds of the debts. Doing it is much easier than what you would expect and you will get plenty of help here. I will be more than willing to help you, as I say, it wiped out more than 2/3rd of my debt and that could end be even higher, even after the mess the Stocport clowns made it with their generic, unhelpfull and useless way of claiming. This is also helping me tremedously in cleaning up my credit record, something that was utterly destroyed as a direct result of my involvement with the Stockport circus, aka First Step Finance. Ther are also plenty of help here in challenging your accounts. It is up to you what you are willing to do but many people feel they are not up to it, especially in the beginning but as I said, it is much easier than what one thinks. I can also see absolutely nothing wrong with going along with something like Payplan while you are challeging your accounts and possible PPI (payment protection insurance). You do not have to do it but it could make it easier. You can do exactly what First Crap Finance claim they can do, the only difference by doing it yourself is that you will save a lot of money, it will be far more effective, it will be done far more correctly and above all, you are in control! My advice will be do not use a debt management company which you pay but rather the free services, should you feel you need to use it. If you look around on this forum you will often find that advice, so you do not have to take my word for that. But please, do not get involve with these clowns, you will do yourself a HUGE faviour by not doing it!! This is a fact!

... unfit to trade!!!

I believe the OFT has perfectly pigeon-holed FCF ......

As the team scoring the most own goals!! No other team will even come close!! They will probable be 1st, 2nd, 3rd and I assume 4th and 5th as well!!

Should FCF be a footbal team, which aspect will they be the best known for ... ??