Hi JonCris, Would you happen to know where it's written by the FSA that they think securitization is unfair. I'd like to use it in court. I'm writing my defence for my repo hearing. I happen to think that a defence need not take one path only. It can have strength in challenging a claimant on multiple points. Where one fails, another may succeed. Regards Liz

Sorry, yes, my main mortgage is about £250,000. The 5K arrears are 3 payments (when the interest rate was high). The 9k further advance (or second charge) is the one I am enquiring of, as to whether it is regulated under the consumer credit act. Regards Liz.

Helloooo Diddydicky, Hey, there's hell of a fight going on in the thread below. They're barely civil to each other. Fistycuffs at dawn. It's ever so entertaining. Re: Mortgage Securitisation - Preferred Regards Liz:D:D:D

Hi all, Could anybody tell me if a first charge secured on a property for around £9,000 is regulated and therefore protected under consumer credit act? Thanks, Liz.

Put my previous message on the wrong thread. Comes from having too many threads open at the same time. Sorry!!! Liz.

Hi all, Just a question. Is a first charge for around £9,000, secured on a property, regulated and therefore protected under the Consumer Credit Act? Regards Liz

Hi Suetonius I have to search through the mortgage docs for that. I was reading through them and saw it written once, somewhere. All it said was "mortgage protection". I'll revert to you. Regards Liz

Sorry, for clarification - only 3 Bank Holidays are BHs for everyone, Good Friday, Easter Monday and Christmas Day. Regards Liz

Hi Blake You have obviously signed a contract of employment. Your exact entitlement to holidays and whether you get paid for Bank Holidays will be in that. A full-time permanent employee working a five day week will be paid for Bank Holidays, depending on the industry they are in! The position is complex for anyone not usually working on a Monday or Friday, or for part-time, or casual or contract workers. The overtime rate for most people's BHols has gone down from 1.5 - 3 x to hourly flat rate, from the date when the Bank Holidays were classified as "holidays". Lots of people have lost out big time but nobody seems to have realised it. Bank Hols are technically no longer Bank Holidays, except if you are actually working in a bank. Some industries are exempt from the overtime reduction rate, ie, theatre permanent staff. So what is written in your contract? And does your contract refer to a company handbook, of which your contract forms part, or does it refer to "all UK employment laws"? Regards Liz

Hi peeps, nice lively debate. BRW - Astute as ever. Can a building soc proceed to repossession hearing if the borrower has mortgage protection? Apparently I have this, but the building soc hasn't mentioned it to me. Regards Liz

When you put your opponent to "strict proof" the onus is on them to prove something - in this case that they do own the mortgage. I don't speak first to specify to the judge what proof I consider acceptable. The opponent must first prove ownership (strict proof) to the satisfaction of the court, during which I can challenge the "proof". The matter will then hopefully be tied to ownership, not repossession, and should end up in a higher court. Asking "is there any evidence that it does not own legal title" puts the onus on me, and the idea is to put them in the hot seat and make them prove they have the right to be taking the action they are taking. "Strict proof" works in the same way as asking a company to provide a CCA agreement. "Prove it if you want to proceed", basically. (Otherwise get the hell out of my court and stop wasting my time.) Regards Liz

Forgive me, I have yet to read back through the thread. So, I ask the judge to put the mortgagee to strict proof that it owns the mortgage. The action then cannot proceed without proving ownership, and it cannot proceed in the County Court, as the amount in dispute is the entire mortgage - so I apply for a transfer and a prelim in the High Court. Then I get myself a pro bono barrister wanting to make a name for himself, or a silk wanting to be bigger - because then I make it very public. Just thinking out loud here, peeps. A few like-minded people - class action - umm. Regards Liz

Oops, there goes another rubber tree plant! Liz

Yes please. I would. How can you get one to me? Der??? Regards Liz

Exactly - and that's my point. There's the weakness. It goes back to tort of contract. Can a mortgagor (little 'ol peasant customers us) be expected to know about a clause written in such a fashion, or understand it if we do know about it, and if it's hidden in the small print that one day someone else will "own" our debt, surely it's an unfair business relationship, and can be challenged in the High Court? If not contract law, then Human Rights? I have to go and look up the HRA. I'm at work. I'm not dropping this. Their tactics have annoyed me. As far as I'm concerned, I don't care about the repossession hearing - I'll deal with that. And in the meantime I'll carry on with their downfall. Bye Liz

Hello Mephistopheles, and all & any barristers and lawyers who are reading this, I would like to ask; if a mortgage has been securitized, (which I understand to be the selling on of the mortgage debt), does this mean in the eyes of the law that the mortgage debt has been sold on, and that the original building society no longer owns the debt? If this is so, then the contract is invalid, surely, and the debt has been gifted to the mortgagor (me). I am thinking along the lines of; under the tort of contract, a contract has to be agreed between two parties, and a contract cannot be assigned or ended without the knowledge of one of those parties, without breach of contract taking place and the contract being invalid. And by invalid, I don't just mean unenforceable - I mean as if it never existed. For a building society to write the option of later securitising the mortgage into the mortgage contract, the mortgagor must have been made aware of this by the mortgagee in the Main Mortgage Terms Information, or surely FSA regulations have been broken. As well as breaching contract law, surely if the mortgagee no longer owns the debt, they cannot repossess the object of the debt, ie the property. All comments welcome. I do intend to take on my building society about this. Someone has to create precedent. Regards Liz

where d'you all get your pretty little pictures from? I want one!!!

So presumably Birmingham Midshires are doing this, and they haven't offered it to me. Another complaint going in. Liz

Okay, kiss and make up, kids. Kane3000, however the company see their "reality" of the matter, they will be frightened that your OH still has time to take them to tribunal for something - anything - she cares to think of, so they should be willing to provide your OH with a written reference, but may I suggest that you strike while the iron is hot. Consider writing them a letter, next day delivery, (must be signed for), with very nice friendly wording along the lines of, "I am saddened that my business relationship with you has ended in the way it has, as during my time with you I have certainly enjoyed (find something good to say which won't prejudice your ET case if you make one). As a matter of goodwill, therefore, I would be grateful if you could provide me with an open written reference, marked "To Whom It May Concern", in order that we may finally draw a veil on this matter. I look forward to hearing from you." Odds on they will provide your OH with a reference as they will think that she is moving on in her mind, and this will clinch it. If you do write something like this, it is important to use the word "may" and not "will". Just a suggestion Regards Liz

Ha ha, I will, just as soon as I get home. I'm away from home at the moment on business. I'll look them thar photos out when I get home (home, where's that?) and see if I can find the photos of the Dragonfly at Oshkosh, when she had an extra fuel tank added (back seat was taken out) and she flew from Scotland (well Biggleswade first), to Greenland, and on to Oshkosh, Canada for the Oshkosh aircraft races/convention. Bootiful lady, she is. Such is my memory, I can't remember if the four RCMP aircraft had call signs of flowers or girls' names. I think it was flowers, Anemome, Buttercup, C??? Daisy. Regards Liz

One interesting comment. "no selection criteria. they just picked your OH". Also, they made your OH redundant while he was off work certified sick, (breaches of employment law), and they didn't inform him in the same way that the other employees were informed. It is not a defence for them to 'imagine' that other employees would tell him. Sex Discrimination Act, he has suffered a detriment. Go straight to lawyers to make sense of the minefield and thereafter straight to ET. He will not be reinstated, but you may get an award. But, it's not easy, it's stressful and it may be hard to enforce if you do get an award. And remember, solicitors will somehow want their pound of flesh. No win, no fee solicitors vary as to how good or useless they are. You may be able to settle before a tribunal hearing through mediation by ACAS, who will be assigned to the claim. ACAS mediation runs to its own timeframe, independently of any given date/deadline for a tribunal hearing. Anyhow, sorry not to be more positive. Regards Liz

Oh, you guys like aircraft!!! How about this then? I was writing a book once (as you do) and I got in touch with the owner of the last flying de Havilland Dragonfly (beautiful red plane - sorry, aircraft) up near Biggleswade. Told him I was doing the writing thing and he took me up for a spin in her. Oh, she's gorgeous. Then I got shoved into a Tiger Moth and went up without goggles!! Stupid woman!! and thanks to the Tiger Moth club for that! Then I got in touch with somewhere wild in Canada, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the sergeant in charge (a Scotsman) sent me original 1937 photos of the first 4 Dragonflies and their crews ever to pursue a criminal across the frozen waste (before the aircraft called the Beaver took over). How's that for useless information? Regards Liz PS never did publish the book.

Hi everyone, I'm at work so this will be quick. BM have issued me with a repossession hearing date at the court. It's just under £5,000 arrears but I'm paying the mortgage again plus a little off the arrears every month. I have a first charge which is £9,000 odd and has always been paid by direct debit, so it has never had arrears. On the repossession letter they sent me regarding that they had to admit that the arrears were nil! My mortgage was a short one, 12 years' long and it's relatively new. I am writing to BM formally complaining that they will not capitalise the arrears under pre-action protocols, (in fact that they haven't attempted to resolve this by any of the pre-action protocols), that they have sent letterbox snoopers round my house, and that they have ARC and NCI chasing me (on what grounds since they are determined to repossess, so isn't that illogical?). They also have Shoosmiths dealing, who have already started making mistakes. Any info on securitisation that Pendeford Mortgages No 1 has done will be grateful as I intend to make precedent and fight the repossession. BM said they would go for a suspended possession hearing but this is not on the court application. Is it possible to apply for a set aside against a mortgage repossession on the lack of attempting pre-action protocols? Also intend to use Human Rights Act, protocol 8 (snooper and attempt to repossess) but anyone reading this, please realise I'm really rushing as I write this. Must go, Regards Liz

I don't know what time she has to go in to work or to the meeting tomorrow, but if she doesn't turn up and you send in a sick note, she can't be sacked while she's off sick. Don't know what her company's policy is on sick pay. A sick note during her notice period would just mean she wouldn't have to go back in and face them - same if she has garden leave. An employer cannot proceed with a disciplinary hearing if a sick note has been delivered before the time you've been told for the start of the meeting. Basically, if she doesn't want to fight, look at it this way, they will always be sh**ts and her next job might be a really nice one. Regards Liz

Hello peeps Capquest have sent me the exact same letter. I have already sent CCA and SAR with no reply, although I think they may have tried to deliver the documents but I wasn't at home and I didn't go to pick up the parcel, so they were out of time and I wrote to them saying the debt was unenforceable. I haven't heard from them since, until the Capquest letter. I'll send them the one suggested by Silverfox 1961. many thanks. Liz ps don't mean to hijack. Also starting a thread about BM trying to repossess me. Intend to make precedent re securitisation.