I'm pretty sure it is, I ended up in court a few years back for a 'repeat' of something that had been previously discarded with by the courts. The reason the other side gave was 'a locum dealt with the initial case and wasn't fully prepped'. They got a 4k wasted costs order for their troubles.

sound familiar, has anything actually changed.... >paste on Creditor Harassment A report by Nottingham & District Citizens Advice Bureau May 2008 Key Facts In August 2007, the Bank of England (BoE) said that the amount of money owed by consumers exceeded £1trillion. Around one million people are currently struggling with "problem" debt, owing an average of £25,000 each - not including mortgages. In England and Wales, harassment of people in debt by creditors or their agents is a criminal offence under the Administration of Justice Act 1970. In our survey, 92% of all respondents said they were in arrears with their debt repayments. 86% of respondents said they felt harassed by their creditors. 44% of respondents said they were contacted by phone at least once a day. Summary of Recommendations More effective enforcement of current legislation, with punitive measures for those who do not adhere to them. Increase the number of financial literacy projects so more people are aware of their rights and responsibilities regarding borrowing responsibly and getting into arrears. Current guidelines, such as the Banking Code, to be mandatory rather than voluntary. Introduction Citizens Advice Bureaux routinely collect evidence of problems affecting their clients and use this evidence to support calls for changes in policies. This allows Citizens Advice to act as an effective voice for its clients and others suffering from similar problems. In 2007/8 Citizens Advice Bureaux dealt with over 4.8 million new problems, more than 1.5 million of which concerned debt. Debt is now the number one issue advised on in bureaux, accounting for nearly one in three of all enquiries and CAB advisers around the country are dealing with over 6,600 debt problems every working day. In 2006/7 new debt enquiries made up 45.1% of the total number of enquiries dealt with by Nottingham & District CAB; in 2007/8, that figure increased to 57.8%. In both years debts relating to credit, store and charge cards were the largest category of debt, followed by unsecured personal loans. A survey conducted by MoneyExtra, the financial services comparison service, revealed that many people are worried about their growing levels of debt. MoneyExtra established that 27% of consumers increased the amount of money they had borrowed since November 2007. In addition, one in three adults with debt said they were concerned about their ability to deal with their debts, in particular mortgage debt. According to debt management group TDX, the number of people unable to keep up with their debts looks set to double during 2008 as the credit crunch bites. It is thought around one million people are currently struggling with "problem" debt, owing an average of £25,000 each - not including mortgages. Nottingham & District Citizens Advice Bureau carried out a research project between November 2007 and January 2008 on people's experiences of creditor behaviour when recovering arrears. The bureau collated client evidence and carried out a snap shot survey, which was completed online (via the bureau's website), on the phone and on paper; 36 surveys were completed. A copy of the survey is in the Appendix. This report will look at people’s experiences of how creditors deal with them when they fall into arrears with their payments. It makes recommendations for the industry and regulators. Creditor Harassment In our survey we asked respondents what kind of debts they had, giving them an option to provide multiple answers if appropriate. 69% of all respondents had at least one credit or store card debt, 47% had at least one unsecured loan, while 22 % had a utility debt. Other debts included secured loan, mortgage (each 14%), Council Tax (11%), overdraft and catalogue (5% each). 58% of respondents had more than one type of debt. We then asked if they were in arrears with any of those debts; 92% of all respondents said they were in arrears; 53% were in arrears with more than one type of debt. We asked them to give details of which debts were in arrears, with the option of providing multiple answers. 64% of all respondents said they were in arrears with at least one credit or store card. Most respondents were in arrears with one or two cards, but 13% were in arrears with six cards or more. The other significant response was regarding unsecured loans - 42% of all respondents were in arrears; again, most people had one or two loans in arrears, although 3% were in arrears with four loans. Other arrears included utility debts at 14% with secured loan and mortgage arrears at 9% each. We asked people whether they felt harassed by their creditor(s); 86% of all respondents answered yes. Whilst it is accepted that the majority of people responding to such a survey would generally do so where they had experienced problems, we believe that the survey does highlight significant areas of concern. We asked people to name the companies or organisations that they felt were harassing them. Some people did not name a specific company, while others gave one or more name. 37% of the creditors named were high street banks and 20% were credit card companies. Utility companies made up 17% of the names while non-high street loan companies made up 13% of the total. We asked respondents how often creditors contacted them, asking respondents to give multiple answers if appropriate. 44% of all respondents said their creditor(s) contacted them by phone at least once a day, while 28% were called once a week. 22% received letters once a month while a further 13% received them once a fortnight or more. 8% of respondents had personal visits from their creditor either weekly or monthly. One respondent said: ‘(four) creditors rang dozens and dozens of times. I ended up turning the phone off. They said CAB had no legal powers and were a waste of time.’ This was despite advising the client in their reminder letters to seek debt counselling advice. The survey asked at what time did creditors ring respondents, again allowing people to give more than one answer. 75% of all respondents said their creditor(s) rang them during the day while 53% said their creditor(s) rang them in the evening and 31% said their creditor rang before 9 in the morning. One responded commented: ‘I changed my phone number because it was doing my head in. It was embarrassing. They were even phoning late at night.’ The survey results are echoed in the bureau’s client experiences, as illustrated below: A client had two credit card debts with Alliance & Leicester. She visited the bureau which helped her draw up a financial statement showing she could only offer her creditors a token offer of £1 per month. Despite paying this regularly, the bank was phoning her constantly, including one day where they phoned her at work three times within one hour. The client worked in a shop and her colleagues had to keep finding her; the client was worried she would get into trouble for these calls. Alliance & Leicester also rang the client’s relative, were very rude, called her a liar and proceeded to discuss the client’s financial situation. Another client was on disability benefits and was managing her debts until her husband lost his job. He found another job but it was part time, and their income was significantly reduced. The client had agreed to pay £2 per month towards her £600 overdraft and had followed the instructions on how to pay. However, Allied International Creditors (who took over the debt from HSBC) said they had not received the payments and were phoning the client five to six times a week and sometimes twice a day, despite the client saying she had proof of her payments. After intervention by a bureau adviser the company accepted that the client had made payments and a new system of payment was agreed. Respondents were asked what creditors said when contacting them, again allowing people to give more than one answer if appropriate. 58% of all respondents said their creditor(s) demanded immediate payment, 39% said the creditor(s) refused to negotiate with them and 39% threatened court action. Respondents were asked to add their own comments: ‘They threatened bailiffs after I’d made payment arrangements.’ ‘Bailiffs said could come in any time they wanted.’ ‘Said they’d not heard from CAB when I know they’ve received the letters.’ ‘They asked for my credit card details.’ ‘They told me to get help from family or friends and pay the money all in one amount.’ ‘Keep saying they haven’t received any letters.’ ‘We were threatened after making arrangements [to pay}. Threatened to send bailiffs round, wanted full payment, no negotiations. Told creditors how ill [my husband] was, that it was terminal – they said ‘not our problem’.’ ‘The bailiff is calling at the house looking for someone who does not live at the property, we have shown them a mortgage statement, but they want us to show them other paperwork. My baby…was screaming…he could see that both baby and I were getting distressed. I gave him the relevant paperwork but he refused to budge. It is very cold to be standing on the doorstep with a screaming baby, he showed no sympathy, despite [me] giving forwarding details of the person they wanted.’ A creditor is allowed to take reasonable action to recover a debt including sending reminders for payment, calling the debtor or contacting them at their home and taking court action. In England and Wales, harassment of people in debt by creditors or their agents is a criminal offence under the Administration of Justice Act 1970. According to the Act, examples of harassment include:- contacting the debtor too frequently or late at night pressurising the debtor to pay in full or in large instalments which s/he cannot afford ignoring disputes about whether the debtor owes the money. The regulatory body The Office of Fair Trading (OFT), which aims to protect consumers and encourage businesses to comply with consumer and competition laws, has issued guidelines on what activities may be considered harassment and should therefore be avoided by creditors. Unfair business practices outlined in the guidance include: failing to investigate disputed debts, pursuing third parties for payment when they are not liable, communication with consumers in a misleading or deceitful manner, and behaving in a threatening manner towards debtors and bypassing or refusing to deal with third party representatives. In April 2008 the OFT issued warnings to thirteen companies including debt collection agencies and financial institutions telling them that they needed to take steps to improve their debt collection practices. The action taken by the OFT against the consumer credit licence holders was ‘a response to a marked increase in consumer complaints received by the OFT about debt collection practices.’ Consumer Direct recorded 6,824 calls from consumers with a range of complaints about harassment, the use of out-of-date data and being contacted at unreasonable times. The figure was a 38% rise on 2006. The Banking Code is a voluntary code which sets the standards of good banking practice for banks and building societies to follow when dealing with customers. The code was updated in March 2008 and one of its key new provisions concerned dealing with customers in financial difficulties. The code states that companies will be ‘sympathetic and positive’ when considering any financial difficulties a customer may have. The consequences of creditors not following regulatory guidelines is demonstrated by bureau client case studies: A client had an unsecured loan and a credit card debt, totalling approximately £6,000. With the help of the bureau he sent both creditors a letter, together with his financial statement and best possible offer. One creditor – Barclays Bank - kept calling him two to three times a day, sometimes phoning late at night. When the bureau adviser contacted Barclays Bank, they said that they had not received the client’s letters, even though the adviser checked on the Royal Mail website which showed that the company had received and signed for the letter two days after the client sent it. The client was getting treatment for depression, which was made worse by his debt problems. He was too scared to answer the phone because he felt that he had tried to deal with his debts but his creditors were not communicating with him in an appropriate manner. The client ended up phoning the police because of the incessant phone calls. The police contacted Barclays Bank, who sent the client a written apology. A 59 year old client was being harassed by debt collectors for a debt of approximately £2,500 that was incurred by a relative with the same surname and first initial who lived at the same address until a few years ago. At some point the debt collector (Capquest) apparently changed the name of the debtor from the original debtor's to the client's name. The client was threatened with bailiffs and court action. Another client had a debt with her bank of less than £100. Moneyway Debt Recovery sent her a letter which appeared very threatening in general and in particular made the assertion that “the senior officer of the court has the powers to make a committal warrant for your subsequent arrest". This was taken very seriously by the client and caused her a great deal of distress as she thought she was about to be arrested because of what she owed. A client got into debt when his wife fell seriously ill and he had to stop work to care for her and their children, one of whom was disabled. Although he was back in work, his wife was still unable to work so the household income was much lower than it had previously been. He came to the bureau where he received help making pro-rata payment offers to his creditors. He came back to the bureau a few months later because two creditors had not accepted the offers; one in particular, 1st Credit, was contacting him almost daily. The bureau adviser arranged that the client would pay £10 per week towards his debt and would set up a standing order to enable this. Almost immediately 1st Credit reported that the client had defaulted on his payment schedule and he would have to pay nearly £20 per week or they would seek to put a charge on his property. On investigation, it appeared that a banking error had delayed the payment schedule. 1st Credit also said the client was told to make the first payment by other means before the standing order was set up, which the client disputed. The client continued to pay £10 per week but one month after the standing order was set up 1st Credit told the client that he now had to pay £25 per week to stop the threat of bankruptcy. As a result the client, to his own detriment, offered to increase his payment to nearly £20 per week, which 1st Credit rejected. The adviser made an official complaint to 1st Credit about their aggressive escalation procedure and their demands for unreasonably large instalments when the client had shown he could not afford them. 1st Credit admitted that according to their own records it was not clear that the client was told to make a payment before the standing order was set up, therefore he had not been in default, and a new payment schedule was agreed. Finally, respondents were asked to describe how the behaviour of their creditors has affected them. Most people found the experience very stressful, describing the effect it has had on their physical and mental health in very negative terms. A few took the attitude that there was nothing for the creditors to gain by their frequent contact and so remained unaffected. In a few instances, a lack of financial literacy was revealed, for example where a respondent has considered getting third loan in order to ‘get rid’ of a second loan, which in turn was obtained to help with mortgage payments. In another case a respondent did not appear to understand the importance of keeping to an agreed repayment schedule, so her creditors started to ‘panic’. Respondents commented: ‘…could have been more understanding considering that they tell you (in letters) to do something about it’ ‘..considering bankruptcy’ ‘We had to change the phone number. I have cancer – suffered stroke because of harassment. Wife also suffered stroke.’ ‘No wonder people go bankrupt when creditors won’t deal with you.’ ‘All the other creditors (except Littlewoods)…have been fantastic – can’t grumble. ‘‘Very stressed – almost suicidal… mostly because of the harassment I got from Halifax.’ ‘Can’t get blood out of a stone was my attitude.’ ‘Found it very stressful – didn’t answer phone. Why did they keep upping the limit when I was getting into trouble? I keep getting offers even now!’ ‘Don’t know where I am, what I’m doing. They accepted £1 token offers of payment but they put on charges onto the debt.’ ‘Stressful. They should not offer loans out so easily.” ‘Scared to answer phone. Worried about what they’ll do.’ ‘Took £5k loan from GE money to cover mortgage while in hospital for a hip replacement. Worry about answering the phone. Put under pressure - tempted to borrow elsewhere to get rid of them.’ ‘Very stressful – been on anti depressants. Self employed – interrupted work during the day to deal with the creditors.’ ‘Didn’t let it worry me because I’d been declared bankrupt and CAB helped by sending letters out.’ ‘Worry that with all the phone calls and the sleepless nights that 1) my cancer will come back 2) my husband will find out 3) I die of a heart attack will all the stress. They seem to panic if you are 2 weeks late with the payments they don’t seem to take in that there could be any number of reasons that your (sic) late. 1) had bereavement 2) MOT more than you thought 3) boiler broken down 4) been away.’ ‘I’ve had sleep problems, stress. HSBC have been awful and unwilling to listen.’ ‘I am scared of them. I have a son now and don’t want him to be taken away. I am now working and need help to pay them but I owe so much from when I was young and silly I am scared I won’t get free from debt until the day I die.’ ‘Sleepless nights worrying people will call at my home. I have a 13 year old son and tell him not to answer the door. I no longer put my mobile on and have had to have a new sim card because I could not stand the calls. I have a learning disability and did not understand APR when taking the store cards out.’ The vast majority of creditors behave reasonably when dealing with customers who are in arrears. However, for those creditors who do not act within the current guidelines the impact on their customers can be devastating. It seems that too often creditors get away with such aggressive tactics because people give in to their demands rather than making a complaint. This is perhaps partly because the regulatory bodies do not have sufficient powers to act against the companies, or do not use the powers they have effectively. However, another reason why companies get away with the tactics they use is because many consumers are not aware of what a company can and cannot do when recovering monies owed to them. If more people were aware of their rights and obligations when they get into arrears, there would be a more constructive approach to debt recovery from both sides. Recommendations More effective regulation of creditors and debt collection agencies, for example imposing immediate financial penalties on companies that do not comply with regulations, credit licences issued by the OFT to be contingent on companies proving that they had not contravened the guidelines. Current guidelines, such as the Banking Code, to be mandatory rather than voluntary. Banking Code guidelines to be more specific, setting out actions their members should take when pursuing debt recovery, for example demonstrating that they have made efforts to reach agreement with their customers on reasonable and affordable arrears repayments, or dealing directly with an authorised third party agency rather than contacting the customer. Increase of financial literacy projects so more people are aware of their rights and responsibilities regarding responsible borrowing and getting into arrears. With thanks to Steve Blackmore, Ruth Millington and Proches Tairo. Appendix 1 Creditor Harassment Survey 1. Are your debts (please tick all that apply) £ Credit/store card £ Unsecured loan £ Secured loan £ Mortgage £ Utility (e.g. gas, electricity, water, phone) £ Council Tax £ Tax Credits 2. Are you in arrears with any of your monthly payments? If so, which one(s)? (please tick all that apply) £ Credit/store card how many credit cards? ________________ £ Unsecured loan how many loans? _____________________ £ Secured loan how many loans? _____________________ £ Mortgage £ Utility which utility or utilities? _________________ £ Council Tax £ Tax Credits 3. Have you ever felt harassed by any of your creditors? £ Yes £ No 4. If yes, which creditor(s) and what was the debt (e.g. loan, credit card)? ______________________________________________________________ 5. How often do they contact you? (please tick all that apply) • Phone calls £ Once/day £ More than once/day £ Weekly £ Monthly £ Never • Texting £ Once/day £ More than once/day £ Weekly £ Monthly £ Never • Letters £ Monthly £ Never • In person £ Daily £ Weekly £ Fortnightly £ Monthly £ Never 6. If they ring, when do they do so? £ Before 9 am £ After 9 am £ Afternoon £ Evening 7. When they contact you what do they say? (please tick all that apply) £ Agree to your offer of a lower monthly payment £ Suggest you get help from an advice agency e.g. Citizens Advice £ Threaten court action £ Threaten prison £ Call you names and insult you £ Demand immediate payment £ Refuse to negotiate with you £ Other ____________________________________________________ 8. Have you taken out a further loan to repay a creditor due to harassment? £ Yes £ No 9. What has been the effect of the harassment on you? ______________________________________________________________ Please use this space to make any other comments about your experiences with creditors _________________________________________________________________ About yourself >

oh, must've been filed in the round thing then.

Good link but I can't see a date on it, is there one ?.

hear hear !!. Someone mentioned on here quite recently that 'this lot' would prefer to operate 'in the shadows' because it suits their 'modus operandi'. Thanks to this site, the internet, and 'general circumstances' reality will be otherwise.

Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery - Telegraph

open up a parachute account, Co-op cashminder is good, online facilities plus every post office is effectively a bank branch. Don't know about your aforementioned problem but set your son up so he is immune from such sharp/despicable practice(s).

top stuff, why bother with a solicitor at circa £200/hr (plus vat) when pompeyfaith comes up with that and cas63 snapping at his/her heels within minutes of your posting of a Saturday night.

Creditors get heavy-handed over small debts How to handle overzealous debt collectors

Harassing you for a 'debt' that doesn't exist.

Women dye hair blonde amid recession - Telegraph personally, i'd dispute the survey findings..

oops, story already posted here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/180467-dcas-their-tactics-main.html

Lord Taylor 'tried to aid credit-rating agencies access to business' - Times Online

I WENT TO METRO.CO.UK/FINALDEMANDS AND IT SAYS: SORRY:The page you have requested does not exist or is no longer available.

Who are these then, got a link handy ?

imho, pre-internet days they may have got away with their methods because people were ill-informed of their legal rights. Nowadays with sites like this and communication/knowledge at the touch of a button its a different ball game. I noticed on the 13th Jan, registered caggers totalled 204,740 , right now they total 207,268 (that excludes visitors) an increase in members just shy of 200/day. I predict membership growth exponential in nature as the recession bites and wouldn't be surprised to see investigative journalism against a DCA along the lines of the (alleged) cash for amendments article in yesterdays Sunday Times.

skillz123... kinda ties in with post25.CCR Magazine - Bankruptcy debtors' choice for 2009 with rock bottom equity levels

fantastic, i did the same, i've got nearly 4 weeks worth of Champix still in the cupboard.

You still OK saintly_1, my previous post wasn't 100% clear, I used Champix Jul 07, still off them now, prior to that I'd smoked for 32 years and had circa 5 unsuccesful attempts at packing up. I am free...

The way BR works is that your assets would be sold by the OR and the proceeds shared out amongst your creditors on a pro-rata basis. However, in this case, you have negative equity so it is not an asset and to sell it would be pointless, in any event the mortgage provider would have first shout on all the proceeds leaving nothing left (I'm assuming you have no other large 'assets'). Bearing in mind it costs circa 750-1000 to petition for someones BR and the petitioner has no control over how the assets (if any) are distributed the mathematics in this case just don't add up. Perhaps the SD was hand delivered because as SP says, of recent adverse publicity, however, If I were you I'd definately get it set aside and go for costs. You have a technical defence, no CCA. Is the 12+2 up yet, if so, it may be a good time to send off the account in dispute letter. Two defences then, account in dispute and no CCA. I believe acknowledging the debt in this case is immaterial, have a read of the case law mentioned in this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/178900-what-does-debt-proven.html Personally I think your biggest worry is a daft judge who isn't clued up on consumer law. If you're a litigant in person then be prepared on a just in case basis. footnote to senior lags: please correct if any of above is wrong or have anything to add.

opinions vary, I always thought it was as described by havingastella. But if it is as described by PELHAM9 then great, but is there any case law to back that up ?.

I beleive havingastella answers some of your inquiry, you made above. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/178900-what-does-debt-proven.html

In the unlikely event you get a copy of the CCA you'd need to scan it onto here AFTER REMOVING any identifiers so that a senior lag can see if it is enforceable (correct prescribed terms etc). Suggesting you borrow money to pay this alleged debt is against oft guidelines. Citi have a reputation for poor/no CCA's, (someone even suggested they got shredded). Remember, no CCA = unenforceable, and even if a CCA is produced, it must be correct. Curiosity on, when was the card taken out, the older the better. IIRC, the industry started to get its act together circa Jan 06 with regards to CCA's. PS: when is the 12+2 days up and are you making arrangements to get this set aside as per the recommendation from 42MAN.

Having read this, examples are in abundance everywhere.. Weasel word - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can request a CCA at anytime irrespective of whether or not you have been paying. The debt is acknowledged so to speak (because you have been paying) but without the valid CCA is unenforceable and they cannot demand payment. I'm not sure of your schedules but had you not paid at all and not acknowledged it in writing it is possible some may have been statute barred by now. The account in dispute letter, post 8 by 42MAN outlines the position. PS: any 'collector' or 'licensed field agent' (as they sometimes call themselves) have as much right to harass you as any other tom dick or harry and you could, tell them to 'sexually disengage' (so to speak).