DavidC Vs Lloyds TSB *** WON! ***

[deadthings]

Hi,

 

I actually sent me first letter on 27th April and got the details back. They did write to me asking to allow them to take the £10 fee, which I agreed to but they didn't take it.

 

I got my charges info back, which was five years ready assembled and a year or so worth of statements, and I'm going through it not totting it up. It's about £310.

 

I at the same time asked for charges info for my credit card from them and a hand written note on the bottom of the covering letter states these will be sent seperate, but over a week later it still has not come, so I cannot send my money back request in full until they do! I might just send the letters seperate too to get the ball rolling.

 

I'll update this as and when something happens, but I've had my account nearly fifteen years and have always looked after it and paid in a lot of money over the years, but their last charge to me was £35 which is plain and simple loan shark theft. I can't wait to see them explain that amount in court...

 

More later.

 

D.

[natalie]

Well done for getting startedand Good luck.

 

I would write thema letter regarding your credit card accountreminding them how many days they have left under the DPA to comply and ifthey fail that you will report them to the Information Commissioner. I wouldnt mention the fact that they didnt take the £10.

 

Natalie

[deadthings]

Pass on this, found it finally looking through threads.

 

Thank you.

 

D.

[deadthings]

I got my forms in December, but have been away because of Christmas. I didn't know there was a time limit!!

 

I got Lloyds AQ forms through just a short while ago. I haven't heard anything from the court about it.

 

It's several weeks now. Do you think I am too late?

 

Is there a way I can find out?

 

Should I just send them in ( hand them in) and see what happens?

 

If I have missed the deadline and they kick it out, will I have to refile my claim and pay again?

 

I'm a carer for my disabled mother and went away with her. My claim is £600 and I could obviously do with it. I just get swamped with things at times, and I find this process difficult to cope with.

 

I've done everything right until now. I'm kicking myself.

 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

D.

[BARTY]

Hi

I think the best thing to do is ring the Court and ask them, I've always found them helpful.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Barty:)

[deadthings]

I did telephone the court and explained, and they sorted it with me. I went straight in and handed it in so I think it's fine now.

 

Many thanks for the advise I recieved here and via PM.

 

D.

[deadthings]

Hi,

 

I've read lots on this site and appreciate many are being sent to Fast Track rather than Small Claims, which seems wrong but we're stuck with it.

 

My Fast Track is on Monday, 12th, and I'd like some advice on what to do. There doesn't seem much mentioned about it on the site unless I'm remiss.

 

I've seen mention I might be able to do something about it being sent to Fast Track; can I appeal against it before this comes up? I know it'll probably not work but worth a try if there is something?

 

If not can anyone advise do I use the court bundle (adapted) and other evidence from this site?

 

The thing on the 12th is for 'Disclosure of Documents between parties by serving copies with a disclosure of statement by 4:00PM'

 

So what does this entail?

 

I really need some help with this so please someone help. I have read the court pages and read some of my case. I realize the basic case is actually a simple one, where the charges are high, with no disclosure of how they are calculated, and that they are being illegally used to subsidize free banking. I can refer to the relevant legal points and other points that matter.

 

I just need to know what to expect in this Fast Track thing on Monday, and to be sure I hand in everything I need to without exception.

 

Please give some advise to make sure I get it right.

 

I've been told the fee is £275, though I may get it waived as I only get £82 Carer's Allowance. I'll check with the court.

 

Thanks for reading, and for any help you can give.

 

D.

[gizmo111]

Can you post the contents of the order here please - but it seems like they are asking for disclosure by list - which is simply a list of all he documents you will rely on in court. I am not sure that you have to pay the £275 at this stage - but the contents of your order will show that. How long have you had this order?

 

I have a spreadsheet for disiclosure by list that you simply fill in - if you let me have your e-mail address by PM then I will forward it on to you.

[deadthings]

Wow thanks for that. Sorry to mods for not posting in my original thread, I should have.

 

I got the order about a week or so ago and contacted GaryH by PM but got no response, but that's understandable as I'm sure he gets swamped.

 

OK, here's what I got.

 

'Notice Of Allocation To Fast Track'

 

District Judge Rogers has considered the statement of case and allocation questionnaires filed, and allocated the claim to Fast Track.

There be standard disclosure of documents by LIST between parties by serving copies together with a disclosure statement by 4PM on the 12 of February 2007.

A defaulting party will not be permitted to rely on any document of which disclosure has not been given pursuant to this order.

Each party shall server on every other party the statements of all witnesses as to fact upon which he intends to rely at trial. There shall be simultaneous exchange of such statement no later than 4PM on the 26th March 2007.

The Witness statements shall stand as evidence in chief at trial.

Evidence will not be permitted at trial from any witness whose statement has not been disclosed in accordance with this order.

No expert evidence being necessary, no party has permission to call or rely on expert evidence.

The matter will be listed in a three week trial window commencing on the 19th of July 2007, with a time estimate of 1 day.

 

The pre trial check lists be filed by 4PM on the 14th of June 2007

 

The claiment shall file with the court not less than 7 days before trial a bundle comprising of the following:-

An agreed summary

An agreed proposed trial timetable

the pleadings

the statements of the parties and any witnesses as to fact

the skeleton argument and reports of any cases up reliance is placed

any party affected by the terms of this order may apply to have it set aside, varied, or stayed within 7 days.

 

There is a green form attached titled 'Listing Questionnaire - Pre Trial Checklist and on the first page of this there is a thing written by hand in red ink stating '£275 FEE REQUIRED'

 

Thanks gizmo111, I'll PM you with my Email address; much appreciated.

 

The things is I don't have a lot of money but can pay the fee if I have to with my credit card (ironically). I wish I had known this might have gone to Fast Track as I doubt I would have started it all, though that's obviously what banks and the judiciary are hoping people will decide. I've been quite happy about going in to the court arguing a small claim, but I'm now concerned about liability and having to argue a case against Solicitors.

Another concern I have is this site doesn't seem to have much information about Fast Track and its procedure and what it involves. Have I missed that part?

 

Thanks for any advice you can give, I need it right now in order to do the right thing each stage.

 

D.

[deadthings]

Any advice? I need help on this as it's not what I expected, IE small claims and as such I need to know what if any difference, and how to proceed?

 

Please help.

 

Thanks.

 

D.

[GaryH]

Hi David.

 

I'm very sorry you never had a response to your PM. There's no record of it in my inbox, so the only thing I can suggest is that it may have been full at the time and so not been received. Either that or I deleted it by mistake without looking at it. I certainly would'nt ignore an urgent problem such as this. My apologies.

 

All you need do for the time being is get your disclosure list in to the court and the other side (SC&M). Thats the only part of the order which has to be fulfilled by Monday. Did Gizmo send you a spready? If not, use this as a guide - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/57385-examples-witness-statements-disclosure.html#post479224

 

What you need to do is list every single document of any nature which you will refer to or rely on in court. This includes correspondance between you and the bank, your statements, settled cases and statutes, any other evidence, etc. You don't need to send the documents themselves at this stage, only list them.

 

Use Karn's example as a guide, then come back and post what you've come up with here, and I'll check it for you and see if I can think of anything else.

 

The fee does'nt need to be paid at the moment - thats only when you submit your pre-trial check list which is'nt due for ages.

 

As I said, just get your lists together for the time being, and ensure that they are submitted on Monday. Lloyds also have to submit their lists on Monday, and it is highly unlikely that they will - they haven't submitted any documents in compliance with any directions order in any claim so far - let alone a standard disclosure order!

 

Its unusual that your claim has been allocated to the fast track, but its nothing to worry about. The banks are even less likely to defend in court than if it was in small claims - remember, they simply do not want to disclose!

 

Give it to the end of next week, then if you haven't heard anything from SC&M send them this (the first letter) - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/58011-sc-m-court-bundle.html. Amend slightly to reflect the fact that its a list which they were ordered to submit, not documents.

 

If they haven't settled in a couple of weeks then you can start to work on your witness statement.

 

Let me know if there is anything else your not sure of.

[deadthings]

Hi,

 

Many thanks for the much appreciated advice. I don't think Gizmo got my PM either so no problem over that. The main thing is I have the advice I needed. I had an idea it wasn't going to be complicated, and obviously we know the facts of our case, it's just going to Fast Track threw me a bit as obviously there is more hearings and work involved and with the £275 fee quoted I was getting worried.

 

I'll work on this all day Sunday gathering the information required so my list is up to date. I do have everything I need for it. Lloyds messed me around over the credit card charges info and took about two months before getting it to me seperately, so it's obviously going to relfect on them how many letters is actually took before I got all the information I required.

 

One thing is they have never challenged me on the figure for the charges I gave, though I have not claimed interest because I simply want my charges back.

 

There is a green form attached to this, do you know should I fill that out with the information or will my list be enough?

 

Thanks again for the help. Once I get it all together I'll post here with what I have.

 

Cheers.

 

D.

[GaryH]

What form is it - has it got an N-number?

[deadthings]

It's form N170 and mentioned 12/ 2 after it. I'll get started with the list now from the info you've provided. I haven't got the Spreadsheet from Gizmo as it hasn't arrived. I'll see what I can come up with in the mean time.

 

Can you clarify this:

 

(A) 20/04/06 Letter: Request for repayment of charges to Abbey from NAME to NAME- 1

 

In NAME do I put the actual names each time or is it a reference to what has already been stated?

I'll fill in the rest and go back to it.

 

Thanks.

 

D.

[deadthings]

OK here is my list. Hopefully this should be what I need. Do I need to post a copy to their Solicitors?

 

Also do I just give this in to the Clerks office, or do I have to see someone in the court?

 

Thanks very much.

 

D.

 

DOCUMENT DOCUMENT

DATE TYPE DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION NUMBER

27/04/2006 LETTER Data Protection Act Letter from XXXXXXX to Lloyds TSB requesting copy statements 1

11/05/2006 LETTER From Chris Brown Copy Statement Unit Lloyds TSB to xxxxxxxxxxx £10 Fee Required for Statements.

25/05/2006 STATEMENTS Copy Current Account statements Excluding Credit Card From LloydsTSB to xxxxxxxxxxx. 2

13/06/2006 LETTER From xxxxxxxxxx to LloydsTSB requesting refund of fees 3

15/06/2006 LETTER From LloydsTSB to xxxxxxxxxx noting request 4

20/06/2006 LETTER From Ms. Musrata Siddique of LloydsTSB to xxxxxxxxxx denying claim 5

NA LETTER From Paul Jarman of LloydsTSB to xxxxxxxxxx Noting Request for Credit Card Statements 6

14/07/2006 LETTER From Zoe Carroll of LloydsTSB to xxxxxxxxxx denying refund of charges 7

26/07/2006 LETTER From xxxxxxxxxx to LloydsTSB Updated refund request inclusive credit card charges adding updated charges breakdown 8

04/08/2006 LETTER From Mandy Horton of LloydsTSB to xxxxxxxxxx Final refusal for refund 9

13/11/2006 COURT DOC Start of claim online From xxxxxxxxxx to LloydsTSB 10

16/11/2006 COURT DOC Notice Of Issue 11

18/12/2006 LETTER Copy of AQ From Sechiari, Clark & Mitchell Solicitors for LloydsTSB to xxxxxxxxxx 21

18/12/2006 LETTER From xxxxxxxxxx to Sechiari, Clark & Mitchell Solicitors for LloydsTSB copy of AQ 22

16/01/2007 COURT DOC Notice Of Allocation To Fast Track 28

DOCUMENT Spreadsheet of charges 29

05/04/2006 REPORT Report of OFT 30

22/05/2006 REPORT Early Day Motion from The Houses of Parliament 31

1977 STATUTE Unfair Contracts Term Act 1977 32

01/12/1999 STATUTE UTCCR 1999: 5 33

1982 STATUTE Supply Of Goods & Services Act 1982 34

28/02/1905 CASE Lord Elphinstone v. Monkland Iron and Coal Co [1886] 35

1896 CASE Wilson v. Love [1896] 36

1904 CASE Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. [1904] 37

1906 CASE Commissioner of Public Works v Hills [1906] 38

1962 CASE Campbell Discount Co Ltd v Bridge [1962] 39

1993 CASE Philips v The Attorney General of Hong Kong [1993] 40

2004 CASE Murray v. Leisureplay (2004) 41

2004 CASE First Commercial Bank & Others v. the Owners of "Mandarin Container", "Kingdom Container" & "Liberty Container" (2004) 42

2005 CASE Alfred McAlpine Capital Projects Limited v Tilebox Limited [2005] 43

1915 CASE Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. v. New Garage and Motor Co. Ltd. [1915] A.C. 79 44

03/08/2006 LETTER Citi Sanctions letter 45

DOCUMENT Citi Terms & Conditions 46

May-05 REPORT Report of Kendall Freeman on Liquidated Damages 47

REPORT HOC Select Committee on Treasury Second Report -Transparency In Charging 48

2003 REPORT HOC Select Committee on Treasury - Minutes of Evidence 49

[GaryH]

It's form N170 and mentioned 12/ 2 after it. I'll get started with the list now from the info you've provided. I haven't got the Spreadsheet from Gizmo as it hasn't arrived. I'll see what I can come up with in the mean time.

A listing questionnare, yes? You should also have an N171 with it, which will tell you the date by which the N170 has to be returned.

[GaryH]

OK here is my list. Hopefully this should be what I need. Do I need to post a copy to their Solicitors?

 

Also do I just give this in to the Clerks office, or do I have to see someone in the court?

 

Thanks very much.

 

D.

 

DOCUMENT DOCUMENT

DATE TYPE DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION NUMBER

27/04/2006 LETTER Data Protection Act Letter from XXXXXXX to Lloyds TSB requesting copy statements 1

11/05/2006 LETTER From Chris Brown Copy Statement Unit Lloyds TSB to xxxxxxxxxxx £10 Fee Required for Statements.

25/05/2006 STATEMENTS Copy Current Account statements Excluding Credit Card From Lloyds TSB to xxxxxxxxxxx. 2

13/06/2006 LETTER From xxxxxxxxxx to Lloyds TSB requesting refund of fees 3

15/06/2006 LETTER From LloydsTSB to xxxxxxxxxx noting request 4

20/06/2006 LETTER From Ms. Musrata Siddique of LloydsTSB to xxxxxxxxxx denying claim 5

NA LETTER From Paul Jarman of LloydsTSB to xxxxxxxxxx Noting Request for Credit Card Statements 6

14/07/2006 LETTER From Zoe Carroll of LloydsTSB to xxxxxxxxxx denying refund of charges 7

26/07/2006 LETTER From xxxxxxxxxx to LloydsTSB Updated refund request inclusive credit card charges adding updated charges breakdown 8

04/08/2006 LETTER From Mandy Horton of LloydsTSB to xxxxxxxxxx Final refusal for refund 9

13/11/2006 COURT DOC Start of claim online From xxxxxxxxxx to LloydsTSB 10

16/11/2006 COURT DOC Notice Of Issue 11

18/12/2006 LETTER Copy of AQ From Sechiari, Clark & Mitchell Solicitors for LloydsTSB to xxxxxxxxxx 21

18/12/2006 LETTER From xxxxxxxxxx to Sechiari, Clark & Mitchell Solicitors for LloydsTSB copy of AQ 22

16/01/2007 COURT DOC Notice Of Allocation To Fast Track 28

DOCUMENT Spreadsheet of charges 29

05/04/2006 REPORT Report of OFT 30

22/05/2006 REPORT Early Day Motion from The Houses of Parliament 31

1977 STATUTE Unfair Contracts Term Act 1977 32

01/12/1999 STATUTE UTCCR 1999: 5 33

1982 STATUTE Supply Of Goods & Services Act 1982 34

28/02/1905 CASE Lord Elphinstone v. Monkland Iron and Coal Co [1886] 35

1896 CASE Wilson v. Love [1896] 36

1904 CASE Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. [1904] 37

1906 CASE Commissioner of Public Works v Hills [1906] 38

1962 CASE Campbell Discount Co Ltd v Bridge [1962] 39

1993 CASE Philips v The Attorney General of Hong Kong [1993] 40

2004 CASE Murray v. Leisureplay (2004) 41

2004 CASE First Commercial Bank & Others v. the Owners of "Mandarin Container", "Kingdom Container" & "Liberty Container" (2004) 42

2005 CASE Alfred McAlpine Capital Projects Limited v Tilebox Limited [2005] 43

1915 CASE Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. v. New Garage and Motor Co. Ltd. [1915] A.C. 79 44

03/08/2006 LETTER Citi Sanctions letter 45

DOCUMENT Citi Terms & Conditions 46

May-05 REPORT Report of Kendall Freeman on Liquidated Damages 47

REPORT HOC Select Committee on Treasury Second Report -Transparency In Charging 48

2003 REPORT HOC Select Committee on Treasury - Minutes of Evidence 49

 

List looks fine. I'd also include the competition commission report, the Aussie default fee's report, the McNamara interview and the BBC commission conclusion.

 

Fill in one of these and attach your list to it, filling in the relevent boxes. You are willing that all the documents be inspected if required - http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n265_1005.pdf

[deadthings]

hI,

 

I got an N154 which is notice of Allocation to Fast Track, and an N170 listing questionnaire. There was no N171 at all. Is this a problem?

It is a listing questionnaire and the date written in pen on it states it has to be in by 14-06-2007 so I guess that doesn't have to be in tomorrow thankfully. It is this one that states in red pen £275 fee required.

 

I'll amend my list with one of the reports you've mentioned, only I think there is a problem with the links you have suggested because they all bounce to page not found.

 

Thanks for your help. I should be OK I think now. As long as I'm correct in thinking the N170 doesn't need to be in on the 12th with the list then I can do that later on. The main thing is to get the list in.

 

Edit:

 

Can you tell me anything about the N265 form, only I'm not sure how much to fill in on it other than the obvious. I searched the forum for info, but there's not much here about it.

 

Anything you can tell me on how much I need to add would be much appreciated.

 

Thank you.

 

D.

[GaryH]

No, its no problem, the N171 just tells you the date the N170 has got to be in by, thats all. If there's a date on the N170 anyway then don't worry.

 

Sorry, I was having some technical difficulties with my linkage yesterday - try them again now.

 

N265;

 

I the claimant,

 

Date of order,

 

Ignore the 'did not search' bit,

 

I carried out a search...... "all necessary documents relating to the claimants claim as detailed above have been searched for and are hereby disclosed"

 

Ignore the rest untill the sig box

 

I have control of the documents numbered and listed here..... "please find the claimants full disclosure list attached to this form"

 

'N/A' the other boxes

 

 

Send a list and a copy of the form to SC&M as well as delivering to the court office.

[deadthings]

I have had no response from their solicitors with their copy of their list, and am now sending them the first of the letters requesting they do so. I shall send it recorded delivery, and later will send the next letter.

 

I have had no contact from their solicitors at all. They seem to be ignoring me.

 

I did send my copy to them faxed from the library with a receipt for each page. (They definitely did get it, Library boss confirmed it all went through and we had to pay quite a bit for it)

 

For good measure I will send another copy of mine with this request for their list just in case.

 

I got my court hearing date- August!!!

 

Unbelievable.

 

I'm doing my bit though. I'll see a copy is sent to the court of each letter sent to them. The witness statement and documentation have to be in court by 27th March so I guess it's going to be crunch time.

 

If I don't hear back from their solicitors before the due date I'll post in here in good time to complete whatever is required.

 

Thanks.

 

D.

[GaryH]

I have had no contact from their solicitors at all. They seem to be ignoring me.

 

Nothing new there then! I should think you'll receive settlement fairly soon though. From their point of view its not beneficial to drag it out further and breach more clauses of the order when they know their going to settle anyway. Get your witness statement in and if (when!) they don't keep to their side of the bargain then you've got a good chance of getting the defence struck out.

[deadthings]

Hi,

 

Well it's been over a week and I've heard nothing at all from them. When I wrote I sent it recorded delivery, and enclosed all my contact details including Email, landline, address and mobile.

 

I need to do my witness statement. I had thought it was due in Tuesday 27th but having checked I realize it's for tomorrow! I've been away and had intended to complete it tomorrow, but obviously it needs to be in.

 

Can you please advise ASAP what needs to be done. I'll do a search of the forums and see if there's anything elsewhere here in the mean time for the Witness Statement, but any help would be appreciated.

 

Added:

 

OK I saw in your sig the info. This is what my form says:

 

"Each party shall serve on every other party the statements of all witnesses as to fact upon which he intends to rely at trial. There shall be simultaneous exchange of such statement no later than 4PM on the 26th March 2007."

 

Not really sure which one this applies to in your list, but whichever it is I'll do if you could advise.

 

Thanks.

 

D.

[GaryH]

Don't panic, handing it in a day late won't be the end of the world, particularly as Lloyds have not, and seemingly don't intend to, take any steps whatsoever to comply with the directions.

 

Start with this as a base - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/57385-examples-witness-statements-disclosure.html#post479225, with the headings and cronological sequence of events, etc, up to about point 10.

 

Then get rid of points 10. - 12. and replace with the best bits (if not all) of this - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/53570-new-strategy-allocation-questionaires-3.html#post482194

That will beef it up nicely on the evidence side of things. There is no need to submit the statement of evidence supporting documents at this stage.

[GaryH]

My reply crossed with your edit, but does that answer your question?

[deadthings]

Hi,

 

it's funny I was on just that link and studying what I had to do to it. I have all the information at hand I think and shouldn't have any problem getting it in for tomorrow.

 

I'll also write again to their Solicitors in accordance with the previous instructions and send a copy to the judge in the case as per.

 

I got another letter from the court stating the hearing is now in August!

 

I must admit I'm fuming that I've been pushed into Fast Track. My niece is studying second year law and she was surprised it isn't Small Claims.

 

No matter though, we'll deal with it.

 

Thank for the help. I'll post if I get stuck.

 

Thanks.

 

D.