CAG CRA S.A.R Club

[renegotiation]

Don't accept as Gospel what the Information Commissioners Office tell you as often when challenged to substantiate their answers they change their minds & I suspect that in your case & not for the 1st time they are wrong

 

I'm not completely convinced about the attitude of the ICO. They should be completely unbiased and I don't think they are.

[Allwood]

this is interesting Sparkie1723, I will being this up with them next week but no doubt they will have an excuse for it, have to wait and see.

[Allwood]

Definition of third party - which would be a DCA - also if a DCA has purchased a debt they they would the OC and therefore they would have all the paperwork that goes with the debt. Does that make sense?

[babybear39]

Give me 5 minutes to scan and prep the response I had from TS yeterday regarding the position of a DCA being classed as an OC...

[Sparkie1723]

Correct the DCA is the third party but they are not the Original Creditor, the original creditor who passed or assigned the debt on would have had to pass all the docs on to the DCA if they didn't the DCA is "up the creek"

With reference to this there is a law lords ruling that... if the original agreement is unenforceable under the CCA 1974, the creditor or any other person does not have the right to expect to have any monies owed under the agreement to be repaid or pursued by any other manner the debt is considered a gift by the original creditor.

 

Stated and confirmed case law.

 

Therefore it could be construed that all the actions of the DCA in attempting to pursue the debt is completely unlawful.

 

sparkie

[JonCris]

Who is going to take them to court, perhaps a trainee solicitor??

 

Going back to my case if there is no credit agreement in existence, how can a DCA know whether they have or have not the right to into my file. but I expect the DCA would be given the benefit of the doubt not a consumer. As far as I am aware I never ticked any box to give the lender to give my details out to a DAC. Going to a rummage for the agreement to see if I still got it.:-|

 

Why bother? Let them prove they have the right to access your file. Don't you inadvertently prove it by finding the original. If they have it they will very soon produce it

 

Sometimes it best to do nothing but to assume & to act accordingly

Edited June 6, 2008 by JonCris

[JonCris]

May I ask those members & mods interested to have a look at this thread I have started & let me have their comments thoughts etc:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/147388-do-you-actually-owe.html#post1555050

[Allwood]

What I have been told over the phone this morning is in somewhat doubt, just have been listening to working lunch and a person was there from Experin answering question on credit reference agencies. A person wrote in asking if anyone can access our credit file and as Sparkie said 'No' they cannot without our explicit consent. The programm is still on and it can be access on the internet but I expect this one will not be on the net until tomorrow or later this evening. I will post the link when I see it on the net. Can anyone believe these people that is suppose to know their jobs. I am furious about it, from now on I will take or make a note of name of the person that I am speaking to on the phone when making inquiries over the phone

Edited June 6, 2008 by Allwood

[babybear39]

Ok, here goes, have a look at this folks...

 

Hang on, I'll post the links instead:

 

TS1stcrudCCA1.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

TS1stcrudCCA2.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

[babybear39]

 

Particularly look at page 2

[Allwood]

Thanks that was interesting, it seems that Equifax has breach my data by allowing DCA assess to it and I will be writing to this people over the weekend.

[Sparkie1723]

This is only my opinion but it appears that most creditors only pass the debts on to DCA's when they know that an agreement is unenforceable and rely on the DCA's to use their misguided belief of power to collect the debt.

But as I have pointed out previously if the agreemnt is unenforceable for some reason such as no agreement can be produced then tell the DCA's to buzz off or you will take action against THEM.

 

Another point not sure if it should be on this thread but everyone knows how much damage a CCJ can have on an individualand does have for six years.

 

Why is it when County court judgements made against Banks and such have no effect on them what so ever, Banks have 100's of CCJ's made against them every day in the courts in the whole of the UK.

 

Could this be construed as discrimination against an individual??? In the meaning of a Bank is more superior than an individual??, that must contravene the Human Rights Act somewhere, just me rambling on.

 

sparkie

[babybear39]

This is only my opinion but it appears that most creditors only pass the debts on to DCA's when they know that an agreement is unenforceable and rely on the DCA's to use their misguided belief of power to collect the debt.

But as I have pointed out previously if the agreemnt is unenforceable for some reason such as no agreement can be produced then tell the DCA's to buzz off or you will take action against THEM.

 

Another point not sure if it should be on this thread but everyone knows how much damage a CCJ can have on an individualand does have for six years.

 

Why is it when County court judgements made against Banks and such have no effect on them what so ever, Banks have 100's of CCJ's made against them every day in the courts in the whole of the UK.

 

Could this be construed as discrimination against an individual??? In the meaning of a Bank is more superior than an individual??, that must contravene the Human Rights Act somewhere, just me rambling on.

 

sparkie

 

Not rambling at all sparkie. I think you have a very important point there re: banks, us and CCJs...

[Allwood]

Need some help again - if a default is placed on your credit file - surely the CRA would have to have some kind of paperwork for that form them to verify before putting it on your file. Otherwise it could be some body in a bank that maybe know you and does not like you therefore their way of getting to you is to put a default on your credit file, just a scenario but it could happen if Banks or other lending institutions does not have to provide proof that you are indeed the debtor. Surely they cannot be taken just by pressing a button or some other electronic gadget.

[Sparkie1723]

Need some help again - if a default is placed on your credit file - surely the CRA would have to have some kind of paperwork for that form them to verify before putting it on your file. Otherwise it could be some body in a bank that maybe know you and does not like you therefore their way of getting to you is to put a default on your credit file, just a scenario but it could happen if Banks or other lending institutions does not have to provide proof that you are indeed the debtor. Surely they cannot be taken just by pressing a button or some other electronic gadget.

 

 

No they don't have any paper work at all,this is a major dispute I am having with both Equifax and Experian...they never check properly even when you post a notice of dispute they just take the word of who ever put the default on, But the Fourth Principle of the Data Protection Act states that under the 1998 Act a Data Controller must in some cases take more than reasonable steps to ensure that data is in fact accurate true and correct and up to date.

I do intend to take both CRA's on in the County Court over this issue very soon I have warned Experian, and I am waiting a promised reply from the Directors Office compliance unit about this.

 

This is why I have posted this on my RBS thread.

 

Misrepresentative statements

A representation is false if—

(a) it is untrue or misleading....

(5) For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention).

 

I am going to use this against them. for recording and holding a default that RBS supplied for 4 years and then the RBS admitted on the morning of my Court case against RBS that it was wrong.

 

 

 

sparkie

Edited June 6, 2008 by Sparkie1723

[JonCris]

Need some help again - if a default is placed on your credit file - surely the CRA would have to have some kind of paperwork for that form them to verify before putting it on your file. Otherwise it could be some body in a bank that maybe know you and does not like you therefore their way of getting to you is to put a default on your credit file, just a scenario but it could happen if Banks or other lending institutions does not have to provide proof that you are indeed the debtor. Surely they cannot be taken just by pressing a button or some other electronic gadget.

 

 

Yes they can & all to often do cos it's only feckless debtors who lie. Their clients would never do such a thing & if the data is wrong its only a mistake with no malicious intent.........so no problem then

 

However once told it's wrong the adverse data begins to change status in that if they don't act to correct it it's defamation & CRA's can no longer claim good faith as a viable defence

Edited June 6, 2008 by JonCris

[Allwood]

I am getting a letter ready to send to Equifax and I would like some advice on it, is it possible to PM to get comments on it before I send it off today.

[JonCris]

Allwood to whom are you referring??

[Allwood]

Jon, I was mainly referring to you Jon or Sparkie that is going to take this company to task but as I am not sure how to send a PM to people, I will post the draft on here.

Dear

 

Further to our telephone conversation of [date]regarding my Subject to Access data bundle documents that I received from Equifax [date]

 

As discussed on the phone [date] there are two organisations names in the bundle of data that I received from you [name of DCA's] and also I note that those two organisations was on my last my last that I got from Equifax and this concerns me greatly. I would be grateful if you would let me have the copies of the documentation(s) that was provided to Equifax to allow you to give access to those two organisations into see my personal data file with Equifax.

 

I should also take this opportunity to remind you that you website says: ..."Please note that we do not disclose any of your information to third parties, except as required by law". Therefore please let me know what law that Equifax relied on to allows those two organizations to access my data file with my consent or knowledge.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Copy to:

Information Commission Officer

Wycliffe House, Water Lane

Wilmslow, FK9 4AF

[sosumi]

If I wanted to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) a Credit Reference Agency - Experian is the one I have in mind right now, as "SCOR – Access to full data is now available to all DBSG Members. Get maximum benefit." - will be a Focus Session led by the Director of Regulatory Affairs, Experian, at a beanfeast for Debt Collectors everywhere in September... And Experian - aka 'CreditExpert' is advertising everywhere with it's one month 'free trial' for Consumers all over the World Wide Web it seems...

So, if I wanted to get all of the information they hold about me, including who they have divulged ('shared') this information with, and why - as I think is my right, how would I word the request, anyone?

I'm thinking it will cost me £10.00.

I'm thinking it would be worth it.

Debt collectors appear to have more access to data about me than I do.

After that it'll be Experian and CallCredit. But Experian seems the most timely right now.

Any help with the wording would be much appreciated!

Okay, I'm going right back to the beginning here - I'll requote your last post Allwood, but I need to focus on what the point of this thread was and what I subsequently discovered. I also have to catch up properly - feels like a mammoth task!!

[sosumi]

As promised Allwood - hopefully this will have a green arrow icon on it now

Jon, I was mainly referring to you Jon or Sparkie that is going to take this company to task but as I am not sure how to send a PM to people, I will post the draft on here.

Dear

 

Further to our telephone conversation of [date]regarding my Subject to Access data bundle documents that I received from Equifax [date]

 

As discussed on the phone [date] there are two organisations names in the bundle of data that I received from you [name of DCA's] and also I note that those two organisations was on my last my last that I got from Equifax and this concerns me greatly. I would be grateful if you would let me have the copies of the documentation(s) that was provided to Equifax to allow you to give access to those two organisations into see my personal data file with Equifax.

 

I should also take this opportunity to remind you that you website says: ..."Please note that we do not disclose any of your information to third parties, except as required by law". Therefore please let me know what law that Equifax relied on to allows those two organizations to access my data file with my consent or knowledge.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Copy to:

Information Commission Officer

Wycliffe House, Water Lane

Wilmslow, FK9 4AF

[Allwood]

Hi sosumi, yes I can see a green arrow icon, but what does that indicate mean. I am useless at finding the place where to send PM's but once people have PM me I can reply with any problems.

 

I have more beef with Equifax but first I will deal with the two unauthorized DAC being given access to my data.

 

Sosumi see the attached re last paragraph regrading people having access to your data without permission - this was Experian answering questions on Working Lunch yesterday.

 

BBC NEWS | Programmes | Working Lunch | Your credit ratings questions

 

Edited June 7, 2008 by Allwood

[car2403]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

Sending PM's is covered at post #14

 

You can send PM's from a members profile page - just click on their username - or you can go to your Control Panel, and compose a PM from their. (You will need to know their username, which you type in the "to" field)

[sosumi]

I had a conversation with Experian a while ago and they told me they were going to ensure all DCA's had a Credit Agreement who supplied info to the CRA's before they logged any information on their systems - I was wondering how long that might actually take to achieve knowing how difficult this is.

 

The picture is a much bigger one and these practices by DCA's should be stopped, just like the nonsense they keep pouring out about not having a responsibility to provide a copy of an agreement on a CCA request because they bought the debt under the Law of Property Act 1925. It has to be stopped because 95% of people getting this rubbish do not come on here to know any different.

 

Sarah

It is the bigger picture that bothers me Sarah.

I remember reading this before, that Experian was going to ensure that only legitimate info. was/is logged onto their systems, and my reaction then was as it is now - "yer what?":eek:

So they weren't bothered before???

This is a bloomin minefield, the whole thing. A group of 'clubs' sharing information freely, without legitimate consent...

it feels a bit Masonic IMO.

I'm not going to wait around for Experian, Equifax or CallCredit to decide that maybe the consumers have a point about who has access to the personal information they collate, and use, and sell.

As we've all said, we are the lucky ones as we've discovered CAG. For every one of us there are maybe thousands of other people getting threatening letters and/or harassing phone calls from 'rogue DCAs' 'phishing' - it appalls me!

My information is my information. If I've previously agreed with a Creditor to have my information shared on a database to help other creditors make informed decisions, then so be it. But if I ask, I expect to receive proof that I agreed to it.

I most certainly did not agree to have my personal information kept in a set of records to be shared with a gang of thieves! (aka DCAs!)

.. Whoops a little rant there, but hopefully you'll understand!

[Allwood]

Thanks Cal and Sosumi, I am also furious at those organization, it seems that they make up the rules as they go along to suit themselves.