First credit asking for higher payments for MBNA debt

[MrSooty]

Glad to have found the site and slightly overwhelmed by the volume of information buried in all these threads - impressive!

 

Despite being 'all grown up' and with a considerable amount of experience in the 'Bank of Life', I suddenly feel rather lacking in terms of knowledge regarding my legal position with regard to our Credit Card debts, so would appreciate some input to our general situation please.

 

In summary, my wife and I ran into serious financial difficulty about 4 years ago (failed business) and consequently were unable to cover our considerable Credit Card exposure. After writing to all parties, they all agreed to waive interest charges and we agreed to make monthly 'pro-rata' payments based on our 'estimated' disposable income (both self employed, so it varies!!) and have continued making these payments ever since, regularly each month. This was done without legal assistance and the arrangements are entirely 'informal' - not IVA etc.

 

We therefore have defaults on our credit histories but no CCJ's or Mortgage arrears registered.

 

We now have one of our creditors (who purchased the Debt from MBNA) chasing us for an increase in payments and they have just issued a 'threatening' letter indicating they intend to seek a CCJ and ultimately a 'Final Charging Order' against our property.

 

We have never denied our indebtedness and 4 years of regular payments support our 'record', but it seems obvious to me from reading various postings that there is MUCH more to these situations than I am aware of!

 

At the current rate of indebtedness, it will take us another 7 years or so to complete a full repayment of our original debts.

 

Do we continue as we are, or is there something we could/should be doing?

How do we respond to the more 'aggressive' Creditor - they seem to be well known in the forums - 1st Credit Ltd.

Thank you

[MARTIN3030]

Welcome to the site.

First of all can you identify as to whether any of the debts relate to unlawful penalty charges ?

As the agreements you had in place were only verbally agreed then they lack the clout of being enforceable without proper procedures.

In the case of first Credit I would ask to see a signed copy of the original agreememts relating to the debts they are trying to enforce.

This as you know is your right under the 1974 CCA.

If you are unable to maintain payments or pay an increased amount then you should tell them this.

However you should know that by making payments this can obviosly counter any attempts by you to dispute the debts. either now or later on.

Have a look in the debt forums general debt,and look at the OFT guidelines on debt collecting practices.

I will move your thread and retitle it for you.

Keep us posted.

[PriorityOne]

Which DCA (Debt Collection Agency) is chasing you for payment ?

 

You need to send a CCA request to them immediately. This will place the account "in dispute" until/unless they can comply with your request. After 12 working days... you can withhold all further payments if they fail to comply. It will also stop them from going ahead with any plans for a CCJ/property charge.

 

Post it by rec. delivery...as you will need to retain proof of when it was sent/received.

 

Here is the link :

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162367

 

[MrSooty]

Thanks to you both for the input.

 

At risk of serious personal embarrassment, I confess to not knowing what our rights are 'under the 1974 CCA' - and as a consequence, do not know what a 'CCA request' does...although I think I am about to find out!!

 

As stated, we have never disputed the debts which arose from spending on our various Credit Cards and in general, hold with the principle of repayment - over time and on 'reasonable' terms.

 

We have also considered the possibility of offering reduced 'settlement terms', using some of our Tax liability cash (both self employed) - which might be considered risky - but would reinstate our currently 'impaired' credit ratings, which is very frustrating and occasionally unhelpful!

 

The only 'troublesome' creditor is 1st Credit (originally MBNA debt) and I have always assumed that we were obliged/required to treat all creditors equally and not enter into 'deals' with one...?

 

Sounds like by sending this CCA form/letter, I will disrupt their declared intention to seek a Court Judgement against me - for what, not agreeing to pay more...?? I have a 4 year 'track record' of regular payments of £86 pm on a current debt of around £7k (originally £11k) - doesn't this 'count?'

[Josie8]

Do what priority 1 says and cca them tomorrow. After 12 working days they will be in default and then you don't have to pay them.

 

Given the circumstances outlined it is highly unlikely that either 1st credit or MBNA have an enforceable credit agreement for you in which case the 7k is history......................

[Goldlady]

MrSooty you are in exactly same boat as we are. MBNA were one of those who got nasty with me via a different DCA but have now disappeared (forever I hope) after they couldn't produce consumer credit agreement at all. I am still paying the ones who were helpful and considerate and intend to continue doing so, but the ones who have tried to ruin us have been well and truly CCA'd.

[lookinforinfo]

Mr Sooty, a CCA request is a legal enquiry that you can make to any creditor with whom you have a loan covered by the Consumer Credit Act [CCA]and

where there is still an amount outstanding.

If you look at the opening page of the General Debts, the top section is the

"sticky" one and the last thread contains a number of template letters supplied by Barracad.

Letter N is the one you need to send to 1st Credit. They should be well used to them by now.

Send the letter by recorded delivery and do not sign it with your usual signature. They then have 2 days to allow for the mail, then 12 working days

[ie do not count weekends or Bank Holidays] to supply you with a copy of the original loan [or credit card] agreement that you would have signed at the start. If they fail to do so they are in default and not allowed to enforce the debt, [They cannot [or should not]write to you asking for payment, nor can they charge interest on the account nor sue you for the debt.

After a further month has elapsed and they have still failed to provide the OA,they have then committed a summary offence.

And until the agreement is produced, the debt is unenforceable even if they

take you to Court.

Generally, when these companies cannot find the agreement, they send the

application instead-often saying that it is enough to fulfil its obligations.

It is not. Some will try and lift your signature from your letter and transpose it

on to a new agreement form which is why we suggest you do not sign with your usual signature.

Keep us posted as to where you are at with them. You would think that they would know what the Law is by now-especially after the number of people

from the forum who have sent them the CCA request. But you would be wrong. One of us at least on the forum can then keep you straight.

[MrSooty]

What can I say - Lookinforinfo - have just copied and drafted the CCA letter and will be off to buy my £1 PO shortly!!

 

Just a thought, what happens when these Debt collection Agencies ARE able to produce the original agreement - business as usual....?

 

I had no idea all this was going on, feels a bit 'subversive', but I'm loving it already - always had a 'gift' for writing a good complaint letter, but having the weight of consumer legislation and law behind you, puts this on a different level!

 

I will naturally keep you posted on progress

 

Sincere thanks for the help and advice.

 

Mr Sooty-feeling pretty pleased with himself on a Tuesday after Bank Holiday!

[42man]

When and IF you receive the CCA, then post it on here (but make sure you take off all your personal details) and then the experts here will be able to tell if it is a properly executed agreement. There is every chance that IF they do suppy the original agreement, you could potentially reclaim any excessive charges on the account.

[MrSooty]

Just received the response to my CCA on 1st Credit Ltd - acknowledging the request for a copy of the agreement.

 

They also add that '....once you have received a copy of this agreement we would expect you to contact this office immediately to arrange settlement of this debt...'

 

I guess it's a case of wait and see now?

 

If the agreement IS produced and is accepted as genuine, in what way has my position changed - better/worse/neutral??

 

In the meantime, shall I continue with my regular monthly payment, due in the next few days?

[Curlyben]

IF the "agreement" is complete and enforceable, then it's time to get a SAR into MBNA and reclaim the charges that will of been applied to the account.

[MrSooty]

Thanks Curlyben!

 

As far as I know, MBNA ceased adding interest charges when we agreed the repayment 'plan', which has now been in place for around 4 years - so I doubt there would be any (much) to reclaim....

 

However, the first step is for the DCA to send me a copy of the agreement, then we can see what the situation is!

 

Thanks

[MrSooty]

Time for an update on First Credit!!

 

Having CCA'd them as suggested on 28th August, I received an initial response from 1st Credit dated 30th August, telling me that:

 

"...we are advising our client of your request - this document will be sent as soon as possible -we will not seek to enforce the agreement until we have dealt with your request..."

 

Shortly after, I received another identical letter from 1st Credit, dated 4th September and today, the THIRD response (identical to the other two), dated 17th September!!!

 

Based on previous guidance from 'lookinforinfo', I believe that they had an initial 2 days to respond, followed by a further 12 days to produce the agreement - having not done so, they have another month to do so, after which what?????

 

I was paying them by DD or possibly SO and earlier in September, another payment was deducted, but I have now cancelled the arrangement with my Bank until the situation is clearer.

 

I would be interested to know what my position is after this next month has elapsed - assuming they are still unable to produce the original agreement??

 

Thanks again for your assistance so far!

[Curlyben]

MrS, until they produce the agreement the account is in default and you don't have to pay them.

[seabro]

mrsooty,

I owe(d) mbna a significant amount across 4 maxed out cards. They didn't supply agreement copies when I asked and to cut a long story short I haven't paid them a penny or heard a whisper from them in about 5 months.

I hope this makes you feel better.

seabro

ps. I am sure they won't go hungry.

[Josie8]

It is highly unlikely they will produce a enforceable CCA untill they do you don't have to pay them a penny

[Goldlady]

Same here - if they had only accepted my offer of reduced payment I would still be paying them now. But I haven't heard anything since May

[lookinforinfo]

Mr Sooty, what I actually said was twelve working days which means that weekends and bank holidays are not included, so that makes it a tad longer than twelve days before the month criteria becomes operative.

If they have not produced your original agreement within that time [and no

their application form doesn't count] then they have committed a summary offence and cannot pursue you for the debt. Not even the Court can force

you to pay if you don't want to.

[MrSooty]

Thanks to all for the feedback - sounds like it was ok to cancel the DD - at least until (IF) they do provide a copy agreement!!

 

Based on a CCA date of 28th August, I reckon they have now had their 2+12days and we are now counting down the remaining month!!

 

If after this further period of time, they do not produce the agreement and are 'in default' (unable to chase the debt), what happens - no further action?

 

What about the debt, does it just sit there and continue to be reflected in my 'impaired' credit history??

 

Thanks again!

[Curlyben]

CCA dates

Sent 28/08

Assume received 30/08 (You allow one day for processing)

12 Working = 18/09

Month 18/10

[MrSooty]

Thanks for the input Curlyben - it will be interesting to see if MBNA/First Credit come up with the proper paperwork before 18th October!

 

As stated in previous posts, my wife and I have other credit card debts, which we have been making regular monthly payments against for over 4 years....some seem perfectly happy with this, others (like First Credit) can be a little 'pushy'

 

In terms of issuing a CCA request, does this apply equally to DCAs AND when dealing with the Debtor direct? Having read a number of other posts on similar subjects, I am very tempted to send CCA letters to the others as well and see what happens!

 

Thanks

[MrSooty]

We recently decided to CCA the other creditors, including my wife's MBNA account and today at work, I got a call from them saying they 'were unable to comply with her request...' - I asked them to write to us confirming their position - which suggests to me that we may be at the start of a 'long goodbye' as experienced by 'Goldlady'

 

I just wish we'd known about this stuff a long time ago!!!

[Curlyben]

MrSooty, I think alot of us are of the same mind on that one.

[MrSooty]

Thanks Curlyben - and at the ever present risk of being perceived as slightly 'thick' (or whatever the currently acceptable euphemism is..), does that mean unless or until they comply with the request to produce a signed credit agreement, we simply do NOT pay them any more????

 

It bothers me a bit that we are taking this rather 'provocative action' (I realise it's not, but it feels a bit that way) after dutifully paying over our money each month for the past 4 years - WHY!!???

 

Are we talking about the whole amount outstanding being 'beyond recovery' or just the element that applies to interest and other charges levied on the 'delinquent' account??

 

Also got a letter today from 1st Credit offering to help us with our debts via their 'debt assistance department' - that's a first!!

 

Presumably, some of these folks might just decide to go the formal route and take us to Court....and then what??

 

Thanks, from a slightly nervous, but possibly excited newbie ....))

[42man]

Yes that is correct.....basically without a CCA, the debt is unenforcable by law...it is up to you and your morals whether you want to continue paying or not....They are (as far as I know) unable to pass the debt on to anyone else at it is in dispute....If this particular debt is brought up again, then I would ask that it is put in writing what they said on the phone....otherwise what proof do you have that the CCA is unobtainable...