Help Needed NHS Employment Issue

[Gary29]

Hi,

 

My Mother in Law, needs some help on an employment issue. She has been harrassed at work by her line manager, resulting in her being signed off sick for two weeks with stress.

 

On her return to work she was presented with a letter, from this line manager who has been transfered to another site within the trust.

 

My mother in laws job has been reassigned to another member of staff and she has been given another job, for which she has no training.

 

Can anybody advise on the following points

 

1. If you are seconded into a post can this be taken away from you, without prior notification?

 

2. Is the content of the letter legal as it was written by a person who is no longer her line manager.

 

She has now been signed off sick for another week.

 

She has also brought this matter up with her union rep with a veiw to instigating proceedings for harrassment and she has also seen a personal harrassment advisor.

 

We would be gratefull of any comments or help.

 

My mother in law has joinned and is posting under the user name witchiepoo, please post any replys to her. Thanks

[poppynurse]

I think we need a fair bit more detail...

[witchiepoo]

I think we need a fair bit more detail...

Hi

I am gary's mother in law and he posted the the item for me as at that point I was not a member. Have been employed by the NHS for a number of years but owing to changes my original job ceased and I was seconded in to another post last year. Unfortunately I have had a number of run ins with my line manager who was insisting that I undertake tasks outside of my job description and was not trained to do. This all came to a head about a month ago when after seeing Occupational Health and being advised to go sick I was given the name of a Personnal Harrasement Advisor who after a long talk with was told to take out a complaint of bullying. I then heard that this manager had been re asssigned to another site so I was quite happy to return to work and let sleeping dogs lie. But no such luck she had left me a letter saying that due to my being signed off of work with stress i was not going to be able to resume my normal duties until I had received further training. The only problem with that is the job that I was doing was completely new and it was set up by myself and another manager who has also been re assigned to a new job. My point is that surely as she is now longer in any way connected to me how can she still have a say in my job especially as it was her that was causing the stress not the work.

[Bigbearuk]

Hi Witchiepoo

 

There are a few things here that need sorting out

 

1. on your return to work you should of had an interview with your line manager and not just a letter. in this interview it should of been explained why they want you to move jobs and a time frame set out this is called a consultation period and you should of had this in writing before you returned to work.

 

2. You cannot just be moved from one job to another this has to be done in accordance with your HR departments policy on re-deployment and they have to offer you the training you need to fulfill this role.

 

3. if you are seconded into a job then it's normally for a set period of time and this should be explained to you when you have the interview for the seconded post ,if you are ask to act up into a post then this should not be for more then 12 months after 12 months the post becomes substantive but you should have an interview for the post.

 

you need to find out who your HR adviser is and talk with them because things have not been done in the correct way. Remember to speak to the union and insist they come with you should the need arise.

 

BB

[ScarletPimpernel]

I'd be inclined to check with HR as to exactly why this reassignment is happening. The NHS is not very good at dealing with bullying; they often simply move bullies sideways (or worse - promote them), since this is seen as easier than dealing with a grievance procedure, a possible counterclaim by the bully, and the costs associated with these. It could well be that your former line manager's move may have been precipitated by the prospect of a complaint.

 

A letter stating " that due to my being signed off of work with stress i was not going to be able to resume my normal duties until I had received further training" sounds rather odd to me. Is this actually Trust policy? It sounds suspiciously to me like a bully's last act before being moved; I'd ask HR to provide full details of what has gone on.

[Merovingian]

If your Mother in Law's employment contact is anything like mine and most NHS contacts are very woolly, there is probably a clause that permits relocation to a similar role on the same band or higher if there's a departmental need or they consider you unable to carry out your current duties. I'm sure they'll probably claim that it was your Mother in laws post that was causing the stress and thus the reason for the move.

 

Also some trusts have extended the time you need to be off work before a return to work interview is necessary but I would have thought two weeks would be over that time though. She'll need to check what this period is and if over enquire why she didn't have one and got the letter instead.

 

At least your Mother in Law got a letter, I was previously involved in a pay dispute three years ago, at that time another section lost half it’s staff after they got employment elsewhere, I got sent on secondment which was supposed to last for 12 months, I was originally just supposed to be visiting this section on one week rotating basis with a team, I only found out I was sent on secondment when I arrived! It also turned out my new line manager had heard that I was good in my current post and an offer had already been put together, the only problem was that when the post was advertised and pointed out to me I didn’t apply for it! (poor job prospect, no extra expenses and too heavy work loads) It’ s three years on now and I’m still on secondment!

 

In my case the union got involved and two grievance procedures have been raised and I have suffered harassment and bullying from my original line manager (I suspect this was in retaliation for the grievance I lodged). It does seem that bullying and harassment in the NHS is considered a sign of good management and that managers who don't use these tactics are weak. It also seems that a up and out policy is followed were the line manager who is often seen as the victim is promoted up, while the so called trouble maker is moved out to a less desirable similar post.

 

In this case I would have thought that the main recourse here would be the lack of training, surely if no training is provided this would raise health and safety issues and could possibly effect patient safety?

[phoebesmum]

I'm with Scarletpimmpernel on this one, bullies are often promoted. The department I used to work in had an awfull manager, she decided who she liked and the one's she didn't new about it. This manager came about 1 year after I started and within 3 years it had all become too much, our department was pushed to breaking and we called the unions in, following this 16 staff, myself included left within a 3 month period, I think about 11 of us complained to HR about her behaviour, and yes you've guessed it she is now even higher in the trust.

 

I have now returned to the trust about 2 years ago after hurting my knee whilst re-training as a paramedic, and fortunately I now have a great manager who actually fights our corner.

 

My advise would be to speak to your union rep if you have one and then go with them to HR to find out what has gone on. I am not sure if you can redeployed without notice, but if it is within our trust it would happen as the welfare of the staff (you know the ones that actually get their hands dirty and do the real work) are always the ones who are made scapegoats and treated like c**p, no wonder the NHS is in the state it's in, and it is going to get worse.

 

Good luck with your quest, and get some advice, do like we do on this forum, there is strength in numbers.

[DOBBYDOG]

Contact the RCN asap. x

[witchiepoo]

Hi

I have now posted another thread under Employment titled Advice on Secondment, as I have been told today in a phone conversation with my new line manager that from September my secondment ends no consultation period or anything. If you are thinking of working for the NHS take my advice DONT

Thanks for all your replies under this section

Witchiepoo

[mazzab]

It sounds like you had a tough break and unsympathetic managers. I too have had problems with NHS management in my 11 years working for them so I can sympathise with your comment:

 

If you are thinking of working for the NHS take my advice DONT

 

However I'd also say I've worked in enlightened and well managed trusts and smaller organisations within the NHS, and to generalise in this way is unhelpful and unfair to the well managed parts of the NHS. Many line managers in the NHS have had little, if any, formal management training and so are out of their depth, which often leads on to bullying behaviour. If this is confronted then those with formal training (usually at chief exec level and just below) have to get involved and sort it out fairly. So I'd say work for the NHS but join a union (mine was excellent when I needed them), and call them if your boss is making your life difficult.

 

Hope everything works out better for you in your new role!

[borisbeaver]

I have worked for the NHS for a long time and have always found their were too many managers.

 

It seems the thing to put manager in someones job title even if they most they can manage without cocking up is a visit to the toilet.

 

I left my first NHS post because of always being undermined. I had a break for 6 years then returned, be it in a different county.

[tiglet]

I would also seriously suggest getting in contact with the Royal College of Nursing - they are very good at giving advice.

[Gary29]

My mother in law today, has spoken to Acas after finding their helpine info, while on the net so she rang, and they are saying that because she was on a secondment and that the original letter sated that employment was until March of this year and the that another manager (above the one, that was the bully)extended the contract, she has not got a leg to stand on. To say that she is fed up, is an understatement, she has been in touch with Human Resources, today and as of yet they have not called her back.

[witchiepoo]

I have won. Had a meeting yesterday with the new management of my department and have been re-instated back into my orginal job. Thanks to everyone for their help

Regards

Witchiepoo

[tiglet]

congrats:D

[cal37]

Well Done !!