BigCol45 v RBoS hes done it and ***WON ***

[BigCol]

Angel,

sounds like a nice idea but not sure if it would:

 

a. Be worth it financially;

 

b. Be worth financing the claim as Sols would have to be used;

 

c. Viable, I'm sure I've seen somewhere else on CAG where this was discussed, I'm not sure whether they have (technically) breached their contract.

 

and finally, I can't afford the time & effort at the moment....

 

I'm winning ground against the credit cards too, so it's all getting a bit hectic this side of the keyboard!

 

LoL;)

 

BC

[goforit]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/18288-whats-your-time-worth.html#post142053

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/18313-why-no-one-claiming.html

 

Where a contract exists between two parties and the contract provides for a rate of interest when a debt is owing between the parties then that rate of interest is said to be contractual interest

 

Basically, the argument is that there is an implied term of contract between you and your bank, based on the principle of mutuality, etc that you can charge the bank at the rate that it reserves for itself when you have an unauthorised overdraft.

 

PM me if you want more help. You may have to apply to amend your claim.

[BigCol]

Well, back on the case now, Claim filed on 12 Jul, Issued 13 Jul, deemed served on 17 Jul, therefore according to my calculations the 28 days is up tomorrow, I will click on the judgement button when I get into work and see what happens. Although I'm expecting something on the door mat tonight or on the website tomorrow!

 

Doom, doom da-doom!

 

Green On!!

BC:cool:

[Guest BlueRuby]

I'm expecting something on the door mat tonight or on the website tomorrow!

 

I do hope you're right BigCol but no surprise if you're not (I'll be very jealous if you are right )

[BigCol]

Blue,

 

trouble is I'm expecting something from Cobbetts, and not a cheque, although if you've seen my previous rants, the RBS would save money (apart from having to pay out to us that is!!) on legal fees and court charges if they coughed at the early points in the process..!!

 

BC

xXx

[Guest BlueRuby]

OIC . Have you had a look at Johndal's thread? Stacy put me on to it and I'm going to give my lot a ring tomorrow and see if I can put the wind up them

[Mrs E]

Any news Anyone ???????????

[Mrs E]

Please Ignore My Last Stupid Question I Missed A Whole Page Durrrrrrrrrrrrr Sorry

[BigCol]

Dim Snaggio Mrs E!

 

I've just tried to enter a default and I must have mis-calculated my dates or not counted today correctly, tomorrow it is then (Claim Issued 13/07, deemed served 18/07, Acknowledgement filed 19/07, Judgement day 16/08).

I will be in especially early to enter the judgement tomorrow!!

 

BC:shock:

[BigCol]

Shock Horror!!:o

 

Corbetts have entered a defence, at the usual 11th Hour, so I shall just wait for the CPR request through the post and get my reply ready in anticipation....... bar-stewards!!!!

 

Oh well, the game goes on:cool:

 

BC

[stacymason]

To be honest Col I was quite pleased when they filed a defence as it saves lots of time with them faffing and applying for set aside, you should get your cheque, or day in court(as if!) much sooner this way! Keep going!

 

Stacy x

[BigCol]

Stacy,

I suppose you're right, I'm just waiting for the letter from the Solicitors. Where are you with your case?

 

BC

[stacymason]

awaiting court date, allocation questionaires returned by both!

[BigCol]

OK, so got home last night and lo and behold a pack-up was on the door-mat from Cobbetts.

 

The pack-up included a 6-side Defence with the usual rubbish about not having admissions from the Claimant (me!) on what charges have been debited, and the usual defence against UCTA 1977 etc that almost everyone seems to get. It is obvious that this is just time wasting and as I have already sent a Schedule of Charges to the RBS and a copy to the Court, it is just Cobbetts charging the RBS for writing some letters (no doubt at £150 per letter!! Cobbetts must be laughing all the way to the Bank on this job, all these claims and so many letters to write and time to spend....good old RBS Shareholders!!).

 

The pack also included a 3-side "Request For Further Information and Clarification" document. This seems to be the standard request under CPR Pt 18 document that could be viewed as intimidatory as CPR Pt 18 does not apply to Small Claims procedures (unless the Court dicates it!). The usual short-ish timescale deadline (sorry letter already drafted before pack-up received!!) and a request for a Schedule of Charges, very similar to the one already sent to the RBS Rugby Branch and the Court (money making [problem] by Cobbetts?).

 

Anyway, here is what I intend to reply with, which is an amalgam of several other letters from other threads (with thanks to Stacymason, Davidhannam, Tomba90 and others):

 

"Dear Madam,

 

 

I am writing in response to your letter dated 15th August 2006.

 

I note from your recent correspondence that you have requested further information from me under Part 18 of the CPR, indeed, a deadline date for receipt of the response is included. This will be submitted in court and the judge can decide on the impression the letter is intended to give.

 

I must advise you that CPR Pt18 has little relevance to Small Claims procedures; however, I am aware that Part 27.2(f) applies subject to paragraph 3 of part 27.2 which states that the Court of its own initiative may order a party to provide further information if it considers that is appropriate to do so. As such, I consider that the inquiry to be intimidating and I intend to bring this matter to the notice of the court, should my case proceed that far.

 

I obtained all of the information pursuant to this claim (vis the charges, account numbers etc) from your client, The Royal Bank of Scotland; I am therefore somewhat surprised that you have not been sent this information by them directly to enable you to defend this claim efficiently. As a goodwill gesture, therefore I am enclosing details of the charges in question, the interest applied as of today’s date, and details of the account number and sort code.

In respect of the relevant clauses and contract terms, I have endeavoured to obtain a copy of the original terms and conditions, but the best I have managed to retrieve from them is a leaflet about charges.

 

In respect of the charges detailed on the enclosed spreadsheet, the relevant statements of the said leaflet are as follows;

 

·Account

o Service charge £10

§ Monthly maintenance charge

· "If you borrow more than your agreed overdraft limit you will be liable for a maintenance charge applied monthly, 16 days after the end of the charging period (or the next business day if this is a Saturday, Sunday or Bank Holiday). The charging period is normally in line with the date that we send your statement to you."

 

· Referral £30 per day

o "If we pay a debit drawn on your account which results in an unarranged overdraft, a daily referral charge is payable and will be applied monthly on the sixth business day of the following month."

 

· Unpaid DD Charge £38 per item (previously £35)

o "Payable when a cheque, standing order or Direct Debit is not paid due to there being insufficient funds available on your account"

 

· Unauthorised transaction fees £35

o Card misuse

§ "Payable when we are forced to pay an item which has been supported by cheque guarantee or Maestro although there are insufficient funds available on your account"

· "When your account is overdrawn in excess of any agreed overdraft limit, a maintenance charge will also be applied."

 

However as stated in my original claim and letters the charges laid out in the original contract are unlawful penalty charges and cannot be legally enforced i.e. charges in relation to unauthorised Overdraft, Referral, Chq/DD/SO Unpaid and Default Notice etc are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2 (1) (e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. The laws and regulations relating to this claim are clearly documented in the particulars of claim on the initial claim form.

 

I hope this clarifies the situation for you.

 

As previously stated, I am more than willing to provide any further information at the courts request.

 

Your etc"

 

I will be posting, faxing and emailing a copy to Ms Lynsey Burgoyne at Cobbetts (lynsey.burgoyne@Cobbetts.co.uk) with a copy of my Schedule of Charges and also a copy to the Court with a covering letter.

 

Can anyone see any snags with the letter?

 

Cheers all!

 

BC:p

[BigCol]

Well,

 

letter to Cobbetts faxed, emithered and posted to them yesterday afternoon, along with a copy to MCOL. I adjusted the letter to Cobbetts slightly advising that I was aware that CPR Pt 18 only applies at the Court's discretion (thank you Stacymason & Davidhannam) so we'll see what happens.

 

Got home last night and the Court allocation questionnaire was on my doorstep. MCOL at Northampton County Court have now transferred my claim to Newark County Court (yah, just down the road!). The questionnaire is very noddy and is literally a series of tick yes/no boxes. Due to my claim being above the threshold (£1500?) I have to cough up £100, which will be added to the claim! I have (and Cobbetts too) until 3 Sep to fill it in, so I'll wait a while so that when I pay by cheque, it at least has a chance of clearing....

So, just to recap, if RBS had coughed up my money before I went down the MCOL route they would have saved:

 

Court Fee: £120

Cobbetts' fees: Filing acknowledgement, filing defence, writing defence, posting defence, reading my letter etc No doubt about 5 hours work so far at what rate? £200 per hour? So possibly £1000 already...

Allocation Q Fee: £100

Extra interest for nearly 2 months(from their last letter to now) of 8% on charges amounting to £2858 since 2001 and it's still rising!!

So on the conservative side of £1500!!

 

If you think about all of the people on this thread that are at a similar point, this is costing the Bank thousands of pounds extra, no doubt a small drop in the ocean but if people are also leaving the Bank once this is sorted, it will affect them in the long term, especially as 'we' will probably not ever recommend RBS to our friends/relatives!

 

Doh!

 

BC:p

[BigCol]

Just recieved a copy of Cobbetts' paperwork from Newark County Court, looks like the originals too (unless it's a separate copy for me through the Court, more expense for the RBS...). I'm going to fill in the AQ and drop it off next weekend, doesn't seem to be any point in rushing it as Cobbetts won't and we've got a Bank Holiday looming so there will no doubt be a slight back up in cases anyway.

 

BC:p

[livelylad]

hi Bigcol just wondering having read you letter to cobblers, the amounts RBS they now quote for charges are greater than the original on my statements do i need to point this out to cobblers?

[BigCol]

LL,

 

I have pointed that out under the DD charge (£35 changed to £38) and also denoted in the shcedule of charges. I doubt whether this would cause a problem especially as there are plenty of people claiming and they are allclaiming from the last 6 years so it will apply to 'everyone'. I will pm you with a reply once the email stops playing around..

 

BC:p

[westable]

you seem to be at a similiar point to myself. Have Cobbetts offered you a goodwill gesture amount yet? The end is in sight, just wish they'd reply as quick as we did, the claim would last less than a month in all if they pulled their finger out. What are they gaining apart from p***ed off customers.

[BigCol]

Westable,

 

i've not had an offer from Cobblers yet, the only offer I had was from the RBS themselves. I have roughly worked out that if the Bank paid up before the MCOL stage it would save them a stack of cash:

 

MCOL Costs £120

Solicitors Charges - 2x MCOL sessions + defence - £5 hours(?) @ £200 - £1000

Allocation Questionaire Costs ?

Future Solicitors Costs ?

Extra Interest ?

 

At least £1500!!

 

And then when you see that at least 5 others are in a smilar situation (maybe lesser costs), each case must be costing the RBS an extra £1000 minimum!! I dread to think what the costs for BlueRuby's case worked out at...

 

Oh to be an RBS Shareholder:D

 

BC:p

[Guest willowb]

awaiting court date, allocation questionaires returned by both!

 

How long did it take for the other side to send in their questionaires? It's been a week since I sent mine in, it would be nice to know some sort of time scale.

 

Wx

[goforit]

Well,

 

letter to Cobbetts faxed, emithered and posted to them yesterday afternoon, along with a copy to MCOL. I adjusted the letter to Cobbetts slightly advising that I was aware that CPR Pt 18 only applies at the Court's discretion (thank you Stacymason & Davidhannam) so we'll see what happens.

 

Got home last night and the Court allocation questionnaire was on my doorstep. MCOL at Northampton County Court have now transferred my claim to Newark County Court (yah, just down the road!). The questionnaire is very noddy and is literally a series of tick yes/no boxes. Due to my claim being above the threshold (£1500?) I have to cough up £100, which will be added to the claim! I have (and Cobbetts too) until 3 Sep to fill it in, so I'll wait a while so that when I pay by cheque, it at least has a chance of clearing....

So, just to recap, if RBS had coughed up my money before I went down the MCOL route they would have saved:

 

Court Fee: £120

Cobbetts' fees: Filing acknowledgement, filing defence, writing defence, posting defence, reading my letter etc No doubt about 5 hours work so far at what rate? £200 per hour? So possibly £1000 already...

Allocation Q Fee: £100

Extra interest for nearly 2 months(from their last letter to now) of 8% on charges amounting to £2858 since 2001 and it's still rising!!

So on the conservative side of £1500!!

 

If you think about all of the people on this thread that are at a similar point, this is costing the Bank thousands of pounds extra, no doubt a small drop in the ocean but if people are also leaving the Bank once this is sorted, it will affect them in the long term, especially as 'we' will probably not ever recommend RBS to our friends/relatives!

 

Doh!

 

BC:p

Lynsey Burgoyne was only admitted in 2002 and Cobbetts will probably be retained for so many hours by RBS to get a reduced rate.

 

Richard Webb is a partner/member of the firm, who was admitted in 1988, and will be charging at a higher rate than Burgoyne. However, Webb most likely does little work aside from overseeing the work of Burgoyne, a more junior solicitor.

[goforit]

...if people are also leaving the Bank once this is sorted, it will affect them in the long term, especially as 'we' will probably not ever recommend RBS to our friends/relatives!

 

Well they're all the same basically.

[tomba90]

Hi Bigcol,

 

Have had a copy of Cobbetts AQ today (1 day late from court deadline). They have put there costs at £300.

[jimmington]

Hi Big Col

 

I seem to be at a similar stage to you having had a defence and CPR 18 request from Cobblers. Did Cobblers threaten to apply for an order to have your claim struck out if you didn't provide the info to rectify the defects in the claim being itemistaion of charges and clairifation of Unfair terms in Consumer Regs?

 

I agree that these are probably scaremongering tactics.

 

Forward together!