1st Credit CCJ/CO On old MBNA Abbey Credit Card - set aside?

[tifo]

i've also complained to the OFT and FSA about their unfair business practises.

[tifo]

this letter received JAN 2008, after my s.78 request :-

 

[tifo]

this letter received a few days ago, JAN 2008 :-

 

[tifo]

i need to work on a set aside as this will end up in court soon it think. Thinking of stating that i don't agree with the amount asked as it includes penalty charges, that i would like to have the opportunity to mount a proper defence and counterclaim, or in the alternative if there is no chance of a set aside then i want the court to consider my offer of payment and make the charging order unexecutable while i am paying this.

 

should i respond to 1st Credit by sending a letter under pre action protocol 4 of the CPR, asking for all and everything they hold on me, including the credit agreement and all its documents, or shall i leave this and ask it if they take me to court again.

[sequenci]

Set Asides (Discharging) a Charging Order is covered by CPR 73.9

 

73.9 (1)Any application to discharge or vary a charging order must be made to the court which made the charging order.

(Section 3(5) of the 1979 Act and regulation 51(4) of the 1992 Regulations provide that the court may at any time, on the application of the debtor, or of any person interested in any property to which the order relates, or (where the 1992 Regulations apply) of the authority, make an order discharging or varying the charging order.)

(2)The court may direct that –

(a)any interested person should be joined as a party to such an application; or

(b)the application should be served on any such person.

(3)An order discharging or varying a charging order must be served on all the persons on whom the charging order was required to be served.

 

You cannot use any arguments that have previously been used to try and stop the order

[tifo]

You cannot use any arguments that have previously been used to try and stop the order

 

thanks.

 

i haven't asked for the CCJ and charging order to be set aside yet, as i accepted the debt but at that time was naive.

 

i assumed the set aside for the CCJ would include the charging order also being removed as this was their basis for getting it in the first place?

[babybear39]

Subscribing...Can you apply to the court to vary the CO as you can with a CCJ if all else fails?

 

Also, isn't it against OFT guidlines to ask you to borrow further money putting yourself in even more debt to clear an existing one

[tifo]

yes, it is against OFT guidelines to offer more credit to someone already in debt, especially from a collection agency!

 

i fall else fails, the best i can do is to make an offer of payment through the court and ask for the charging order to be varied to not be executed if i pay on time. Mind you, if i pay on time they wouldn't be able to execute the charging order anyway as the court would ask, why?

 

but i'm going for the set aside of the CCJ and removal of the charging order first, with above as the alternative. Along the way i'll show their s.78 non-compliance as well as breaking of guidelines.

 

i've put a complaint in to OFT and FSA as well.

[MrTWS]

Letter from 1st Credit rec'd today.

 

They also state as i am a home owner, LCS can introduce me to Black and White who are an award winning company and can help me raise finance to clear my debts.

 

Tifo - I think you will find that they have just seriously breached the OFT rules on recommending you raise finance to clear you debts! I'm not sure, but I thought this was considered wrong by the OFT

Can anyone verify this or did I miss a point!

 

MrTWS:confused:

[tifo]

Tifo - I think you will find that they have just seriously breached the OFT rules on recommending you raise finance to clear you debts!

 

These companies breach OFT guidelines all the time.

 

Question is, what can we and more importantly, the court and authorities, do about it?

 

Answer seems to be NOTHING.

 

If you read the letter carefully, the hidden message seems to be to borrow to clear their debt or they will possess my home and sell it. They mention this in the 3rd paragraph and then go on to 'suggest' i should borrow to clear their debt, which would be unenforceable has they not got that CCJ. As with many people, at the time i did not know better.

 

I had a debt advisor though the council but he was more interested in asking me how to respond to threats from creditors rather than giving me good advice. Their only solution is to attempt to make a payment arrangement, which in this case 1st Credit always refused, asking for 10 times more than what others accepted.

[MrTWS]

These companies breach OFT guidelines all the time.

 

Question is, what can we and more importantly, the court and authorities, do about it?

 

Answer seems to be NOTHING.

 

If you read the letter carefully, the hidden message seems to be to borrow to clear their debt or they will possess my home and sell it. They mention this in the 3rd paragraph and then go on to 'suggest' i should borrow to clear their debt, which would be unenforceable has they not got that CCJ. As with many people, at the time i did not know better.

 

I had a debt advisor though the council but he was more interested in asking me how to respond to threats from creditors rather than giving me good advice. Their only solution is to attempt to make a payment arrangement, which in this case 1st Credit always refused, asking for 10 times more than what others accepted.

 

Tifo - having the threat of anyone trying to possess your home is something I have not faced yet, so it would be foolish and wrong of me to pretend to know just how bad you are feeling and worrying

If you can, I really suggest you see a solicitor ASAP, which I know is more expense, but if it saves your home (I hope that some DCA employees suffer this same fate!) then maybe thats the best route to go down

 

I have no words of comfort really, I wish I did, but what can I say to help it all STOP. You need a solicitor my friend, someone who is much more up on the law than me, or many others here, and you need a good one. Have you ever used one before you trust? Because you want someone who is going to be YOUR friend and stick up for what is right, and not some dinlo debt advisor from the council who thinks they are a counsellor!

 

Please keep your chin up and stay strong and positive, which I know is easy words, but harder to do. If you have ever lost a parent (mum in my case) it makes you really determined and strong to FIGHT all the way

[tifo]

thanks for the support MrTWS.

 

the threat of possession does not worry me, i know (99%) they can't execute it.

 

it's very doubtful that ANY judge would allow this for so (relatively) small a debt, especially since their working practises also come under scrutiny.

 

it is them who have been unhelpful at all times. I have made offers of payment in writing, through a debt advisor, through their solicitor and through the court. They have never accepted any of these. So i cannot be done for lack of trying.

 

the decision to grant them a charging order was a bad one and i intend to appeal against that as well if need be. I've explained what happened at the hearing in a previous post but basically, my offer was the first point to have been discussed, the order the second. So i made the offer through the court and judge asked their rep. He said he's only there for the order so judge said OK, granted. Therefore my offer never got discussed but they had stated in writing and telephone that they will accept my offer when they get a charge.

[MrTWS]

Okay

 

You have a good nights sleep Tifo and we'll chat tomoz!

Nite

[tifo]

How do i work out interest and APR?

 

i have a credit agreement which was quoted at 13.9% interest and yet the agreement also states 22.9% APR.

 

how do i get from one to the other and vice versa as there's a 9% difference between them?

 

thanks.

[slick132]

Hi Tifo,

 

The APR is a comparable figure which all banks etc have to give so you can compare different products.

 

13.9% is the quoted rate but, as interest is added monthly (compounded),

you pay interest on the interest too, so the effective rate is higher over a year.

 

The calculations are complicated and I don't know how to get from one to the other as you ask. That's why we have clever tables to do it for us.

[tifo]

In response to the thread i have on 1st Credit offering to introduce Black and White to me so i can get a loan to pay off their debt (i have a CCJ and charging order but the debt consists of penalty charges etc)

 

i have applied to see how much more in debt this will put me.

In the same letter they state their intention to go for a possession and sale.

No s.78 compliance since Jan 2007 but they did write at that time that they will ask for payment when they comply.

 

The figure i was quoted over the phone was 13.9% but the credit agreement i have recieved also states 22.9% APR. So this is the effective rate i will be paying for a secured loan.

 

The minimum amount i can borrow is £5,000 over 5 years and i have a sum of £140.46 per month to pay. Total would be £8,427.60. With PPI its £161.19 pm and total £9,671.40.

 

They have also stated it as a re-mortgage when it is clearly a loan and want me to sign a form to let them check things with my mortgage provider.

 

I assume this should have nothing to do with them as the loan will take over the charge that 1st Credit currently have.

 

My thread on 1st Credit is here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/103948-tifo-1st-credit.html

[tifo]

The figure i was quoted over the phone was 13.9% but the credit agreement i have recieved also states 22.9% APR. So this is the effective rate i will be paying for a secured loan.

 

The minimum amount i can borrow is £5,000 over 5 years and i have a sum of £140.46 per month to pay. Total would be £8,427.60. With PPI its £161.19 pm and total £9,671.40.

 

They have also stated it as a re-mortgage when it is clearly a loan and want me to sign a form to let them check things with my mortgage provider. I assume this should have nothing to do with them as the loan will take over the charge that 1st Credit currently have.

[tifo]

Just noticed that the amount on this account (CRAs) has increased from £4300 of the CCJ to £5500 now, an increase of £1200. I assume these are all penalty charges because after the CCJ and charging order, nothing has been paid by me because they wouldn't accept my offer.

 

What can i do to reclaim all charges applied by 1st Credit, considering i have a CCJ for £4300 but not the current £5500 amount. The £4300 iteslf contains some £500 of charges from the bank and some £400 of PPI which they cannot prove i asked for.

 

1st Credit has been unable to supply a valid credit agreement after a s.78 request and s.85 would also apply, as this is an Abbey account from 1997 that MBNA took over in 2002 and they don't have agreements.

[tifo]

I have 3 CCJ's from some years ago. 2 are from DCAs for credit cards and 1 is from a bank on a current account overdraft now sold to a DCA. 1 DCA has a charge on my house.

 

DCAs have not complied with s.78 request, 1 sent an application form (MBNA) and the other nothing (Abbey to MBNA, this DCA has a charge). The bank has said there is nothing to send (not even the letter they are required to send me as per OFT determination?).

 

What can i do to have these 3 CCJs set aside or removed and the house charge removed?

 

I am aware of the "cannot do anything now, time was at court, ignorance is no defence, you accepted the debt" argument, but still, i am sure something may be available to me.

 

All 3 CCJs include penalty charges, which obviously i did not dispute because no-one was doing so many years ago. For the 2 credit card CCJs, MBNA has paid me the refunds so the amount at DCA and on CCJ includes these as well as their own charges, and for the 1 bank account the bank has not offered me any refund but the amount at the DCA and on CCJ includes these.

 

Many of my defaults have come off in 2008 after 6 years and in Feb 2009 i will be all clear, apart from these 3 CCJs.

[AnimalMagic]

In my case I was ill and I did not get notification of the claim.

 

If you defended or acknowledged at the time it may be more difficult to get a set aside, but I guess you could use the normal defence and say you didn't know you weren't liable at the time.

I think the main purpose of a set aside is to correct judgements by default.

[moronic]

Sorry to crash this thread - but wondered if you'd check out mine animalM:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/106934-question-about-ccjs.html

 

I know they still have to send you the info. so just send them stronger letters and complain to relevant authorities, if you are going for a set aside you will need a good dj and some excellent help in your application. You need form n244 I think which you can find on the internet.

[abcdef]

Can the debt collectors get a ccj for lower amounts like 800 pounds of my halifax loan for a computer taken back in 2004, which includes interest? please anyone help.

Thank you

[tifo]

received a letter for this account from Connaught (hello if you're here).

 

they're asking for the full balance of £5,500 to be paid and are threatening enforcment and default.

 

the default for this account has expired after 6 years and the CCJ is nearly coming off as well. 1st Credit got a charge on my house soon after getting the CCJ.

 

i have not paid anything since before the CCJ though i understand the account will never become statute barred because of the CCJ. Right?

 

is this an attempt to restart things and what can they do?

[sequenci]

i have not paid anything since before the CCJ though i understand the account will never become statute barred because of the CCJ. Right?

 

Hi there,

 

you're right that you cannot rely on the statute of limitations as action has already been brought in respect of the debt; so on the face of it the creditor can enforce that debt whenever they like. The courts, however, believe that 6 yeras is long enough to enforce a CCJ and would need a VERY good reason from the claimaint to explain why they want to enforce after so many years. There is plenty of case law that states that 6 years is long enough!

 

Please keep evidence of the original default + judgment as if they try and bring action again you can seriously go to down on them.

 

Hope this helps!

[tifo]

enforce a CCJ and would need a VERY good reason from the claimaint to explain why they want to enforce after so many years. There is plenty of case law that states that 6 years is long enough!

 

thanks sequenci,

 

what does 'enforce a CCJ' mean exactly?

 

they got a house charge soon after the CCJ (so enforced it in that way) and haven't done anything since then, not even agreeing to my payment offer and not asked for anything after that.

 

so other than taking a charge on the house (which is useless to them) what else can they do apart from ask for money and order for sale?

 

they've been threatening an order for sale of the house and have occasionally sent me details of companies i should borrow from to pay their balance, or else LCS will do the deed.