SLC Cannot Supply The Original Agreement

[rhsymonds]

Please go to:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions/92344-don-leocornays-gonna-kick.html

 

I hereby present you with an award for the funniest thread name, Nice work Leo.

 

 

[joesoap]

I hereby present you with an award for the funniest thread name, Nice work Leo.

 

 

 

Hear, Hear

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

Shootme whilst I am not making any allegations here I suggest you check the signature on the CA against any recent previous correspondence you sent to the lender.

 

Let us know if you find an exact match

[doryphor]

I looked briefly at this thread back at the start of the year, but many other things were going on, and have only had another glance at it now. 121 pages of posts is a hefty lot to sift through, ensuring information is fully and completely understood. There seem to be many more intelligent folks than I whose knowledge of this area of the law far exceeds my own (not a difficult task, mind).

 

I wondered if it would be a simple task for those in the know to put together a brief guide for those interested in pursuing this line of action. I am interested, but am daunted by the sheer volume of info, much of which may not be relevant, and may be contradicted later on as more information is discovered over time.

 

For instance, I have one year left on a car agreement with the dreaded Yes Car Credit. If they're unable to provide the agreement, signed, etc, and after the requisite period of time I notify them of their default and cease payments, are they then within their rights to say, 'well, how have you got that car, if there's no agreement, we'll take it back thanks'. And if they did, would I still be in my rights to claim back any payments, or would the fact that clearly the car exists nullify any potential claim?

 

I think the guide idea would helpful to many, much as the other guides have helped so many.

 

Doryphor

[noomill060]

This thread isnt about how to run away from your debts.

 

Its about how to make creditors and DCAs comply with the law of the land.

 

Sorry if this isnt what you wanted to hear.

[doryphor]

I'm aware of the purpose of the thread. If Yes Car Credit as a creditor can't abide by the laws of the land and provide a valid agreement, then I'd simply like to know where I stand. Sorry if that wasn't made clear.

 

From the information I have read, these loans that are being queried, existed, but the enforcability of those loans is being questioned through the inability on the part of the creditor to provide valid documentation in support of that agreement. No one is saying that the loan didn't exist - how else was the money (or in my case, car) initially provided by the creditors? No, it is the enforcability which is in question, and it is the specific enforcability of my situation I was querying. In addition to that, I was enquiring as to whether a simple guide for general usage was possible (and fair enough if it's not - that's why it's just a query, rather than a request) to facilitate others in understanding and action.

 

I'm not trying to 'run away from [my] debts' as you say - merely trying to ascertain where I stand legally with regards to the enforcability of my claim.

[pford]

At a risk of being called a "lazy git" which is what I am at the moment because I've just been child - minding and I need a rest, has anyone had a problem obtaining a CCA from the (Halifax)Bank of Scotland? It was just the BOS when I fell foul of the system.

 

have a look at my thread i do like this para from one of their letters

 

Whilst I appreciate your situation we can enforce repayment of this debt under Criminal Justification as spending on the account you have automatically agreed to the terms and conditions of the account and therefore remain liable for the above balance and can be continually pursued as such by our recovery Agents Blair Oliver Scott.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/21097-help-no-response-copy.html

[noomill060]

Thats hilarious!

 

"Criminal Justification", eh? Oooooooo sounds scary!

 

 

What a load of nonsense!

[pford]

Thats hilarious!

 

"Criminal Justification", eh? Oooooooo sounds scary!

 

 

What a load of nonsense!

 

should have seen their next letter they realy lost it now

 

As advised in my last letter, as you have used the facilities of the account which have amounted to the outstanding balance under the new terms of the Consumer Credit Act section S15 we do not hold any obligation to issue you with a copy of said agreement as the legal timescale for such documents to be held is within the last 6 years period, in this case our records are held from 3rd May 2001 until the present day.

 

[elsinore]

Plenty of time to submit that little gem for this year's Golden Bull Awards.

 

Plain English Campaign | Golden Bulls

 

Els:)

[joesoap]

have a look at my thread i do like this para from one of their letters

 

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/21097-help-no-response-copy.html

 

I've just read your thread. Wor lass went to work at half - five so I had some quality time and not child minding today. The BOS had sent me a copy of my APPLICATION FORM dated by me would you believe, 31/12/1994; BOS signed a few days later.They've obviously got some records from way back but why keep/send an app form and not the agreement? If the agreement was available then that would have been the logical (sic) thing to do! I reckon they don't have it. Could be a long summer of correspondence. Think I'll move my desk outside.

[joneshousehold]

Whilst I appreciate your situation we can enforce repayment of this debt under Criminal Justification as spending on the account you have automatically agreed to the terms and conditions of the account and therefore remain liable for the above balance and can be continually pursued as such by our recovery Agents Blair Oliver Scott.

I hope you told them this was a breach of the OFT guidelines on debt recovery which says

falsely implying or stating that failure to pay a debt is a criminal

offence or that criminal proceedings will be brought

All breaches are in here for anyone who hasn't seen it

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

I've just read your thread. Wor lass went to work at half - five so I had some quality time and not child minding today. The BOS had sent me a copy of my APPLICATION FORM dated by me would you believe, 31/12/1994; BOS signed a few days later.They've obviously got some records from way back but why keep/send an app form and not the agreement? If the agreement was available then that would have been the logical (sic) thing to do! I reckon they don't have it. Could be a long summer of correspondence. Think I'll move my desk outside.

 

The date is only relevant if the 'application' form is actualy an application form from 31/12/1994 which incidentaly is New Years Eve! Shopping on New Years Eve 1994 was we!

 

Try & get a true copy of a 31/12/1994 from other members & 'compare' it with the one you have just received

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

I'm aware of the purpose of the thread. If Yes Car Credit as a creditor can't abide by the laws of the land and provide a valid agreement, then I'd simply like to know where I stand. Sorry if that wasn't made clear.

 

From the information I have read, these loans that are being queried, existed, but the enforcability of those loans is being questioned through the inability on the part of the creditor to provide valid documentation in support of that agreement. No one is saying that the loan didn't exist - how else was the money (or in my case, car) initially provided by the creditors? No, it is the enforcability which is in question, and it is the specific enforcability of my situation I was querying. In addition to that, I was enquiring as to whether a simple guide for general usage was possible (and fair enough if it's not - that's why it's just a query, rather than a request) to facilitate others in understanding and action.

 

I'm not trying to 'run away from [my] debts' as you say - merely trying to ascertain where I stand legally with regards to the enforcability of my claim.

 

Dory please don't listen to those who come here & express a superior moral attitude when it comes to avoiding payment to the lenders.

 

No one is advocating fraud,the fact is the banks through their avarice & disregard for the consumer are now finding that those they have treated with contempt who didn't know how to fight back now are with a vengence.

 

As for your situation. If they can't produce a properly executed agreement then the debt is unenforcable. In addition they must surrender the charge over the vehicle as per House of Lords - Wilson and others v. Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Appellant)

 

Good luck & if you have difficulty picking your way through it let me know

[joesoap]

The date is only relevant if the 'application' form is actualy an application form from 31/12/1994 which incidentaly is New Years Eve! Shopping on New Years Eve 1994 was we!

 

Try & get a true copy of a 31/12/1994 from other members & 'compare' it with the one you have just received

 

I just quoted the date to disprove what hbos were saying, "don't keep records that far back". No, I wasn't shopping on NYE 1994, this was an application form so I didn't have a card. It was however, completed at my place of work before I went on the hoy! I'll put a call out for a true copy of a BOS agreement.

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

I realize that joe. I was making another point. Anyway it's no longer matters as you state it's genuine

[joesoap]

I realize that joe. I was making another point. Anyway it's no longer matters as you state it's genuine

 

Sorry if confusing, too much sunshine; no, the form I've got is not genuine and I've already informed BOS of that and requested the real "I am" or shove the debt where the sun don't shine.

[pford]

I hope you told them this was a breach of the OFT guidelines on debt recovery which says

 

 

too right i did and that as they where clasing it as a criminal matter they are also in breech of Data Protection Act as they passing information to third parties without my explicit consent.

 

 

1. The data subject has given his explicit consent to the processing of the personal data.

 

Of particular note are;

 

(g) the commission or alleged commission by him of any offence, or

 

(h) any proceedings for any offence committed or alleged to have been committed by him, the disposal of such proceedings or the sentence of any court in such proceedings.

[joneshousehold]

Good one.

 

When I read my posting again it sounded a bit superior. Sorry if it read that way, it wasn't intended. I get a bit carried away with these overbearing creditors and their collection people!

[pford]

Good one.

 

When I read my posting again it sounded a bit superior. Sorry if it read that way, it wasn't intended. I get a bit carried away with these overbearing creditors and their collection people!

 

 

i never read it that way. just letting other people know what they get up to.

[soli2006]

A bit of advice please. I’ve already won one fight with a lender who were unable to supply a true signed copy of an agreement and have written off the so-called debt & removed all trace of it from my CRA files. However, I’m in a long running dispute with a DCA. These people bought a very small debt from a catalogue company. I genuinely have no recollection of ever dealing with the original supposed lender. So, I sent a CCA request, and basically I’ve received nothing more than the usual ‘your request is receiving our attention’ type letter so beloved by these people. However, the DCA keep on sending me letters asking for payment, offering settlement figures, telling me to make an offer, etc.. No matter how much I tell them they are in default & have committed a criminal offence (their 12 days plus 1 month expired a long time ago), the letters keep on coming. Yet I have written to them so many times I've lost count. They’re either illiterate or stupid, or both. So, what do I do. The debt is unenforceable, they are in criminal default. As far as I’m concerned, the debt should be removed from my CRA files & these people should admit defeat. Yet they won’t. HELP!!!

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

The sil you MUST report them to the OFT & Trading Standards & if that doesn't work you must do as this consumer has

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/tm_headline=stalked-by-my-bank%26method=full%26objectid=19168032%26siteid=89520-name_page.html

[conchy_joe]

thanks pliny, i think you've answered my question as well.my 1st letter went off on 7th march,the 2nd letter followed in due course but i'm still receiving statements from "reliable".is there a letter template which covers this scenario...c_j.

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

Yes it's in the DPA template letter section & it's the one that tells them to stop processing your data which is what they do each time they contact you

[soli2006]

Yes it's in the Data Protection Act template letter section & it's the one that tells them to stop processing your data which is what they do each time they contact you

 

 

Sorry to be a pain, have you got a link to that please. I can't find it - sorry