GeforceUK Vs Lloyds TSB

[GeForceUK]

Hi All

What an amazing forum, but as is with most newbie’s it seems I too am very confused about this whole procedure! Here is the track that I have started and where I am right now:-

1. 5th April 2007 - Template letter used from Moneysavingexpert.com to apply for copies of statements from lloyds TSB for last 6 years with cheque for £10.

2. 25th April 2007 £10 Cheque cashed by Lloyds TSB.

3. 1st May 2007 Received computer generated statement of all charges from Lloyds TSB (used normal branch address).

4. Created spreadsheet of all entries from the statements then deleted the ACCOUNT CHARGE elements to leave the O/DRAFT USAGE FEE, O/DRAFT INTEREST, UNPAID S/O, UNPAID DD and O/DRAFT EXCESS FEE. (Is this correct or have I added the wrong things?) . Total comes to £3962.57. then with interest £5017.28.

5. 2nd May 2007 - Template letter used from Moneysavingexpert.com to request repayment of charges sent to Lloyds TSB (Used normal branch address).

6. 11th May 2007 Received 'standard' letter from Lloyds TSB stating that charges are made for extra services. Interestingly they mention in their letter that "the Office of Fair Trading has published new guidelines on credit card default charges. We're still talking it through with them". "this doesn't apply to your charges" etc

7. 11th May - Template letter used from Moneysavingexpert.com stating pay up or I will take you to court. Also included without prejudice statement for 75% of the total monies.

8. 17th May - Registered with online court action cost £250! Lloyds have until 5th June 2007 to acknowledge.

9. 7th June 2007 - received notice that Acknowledgement of Service has been filed.(dated 6th June 2007 8:06)

10. 21st June 2007 received notification of transfer of proceedings from Northampton Court attached is the Defence and Counter Claim from Lloyds (Defence is very long with 9 main sections)

11. 26th June 2007 received Allocation Questionnaire (N150) from Trowbridge County Court to be returned by 13th July 2007

So now the fun bit! I have spent several nights following thread after thread on this site and now I need to know:-

· When I fill in the N150 do i photo copy it and keep the copy for reference or is there an electronic version available?

· which is the latest version of the Draft order for Direction? Is it worth including?

· What have I missed that I need to do at this stage?

Your expert help will be appreciated!

 

Thanks

[BARTY]

Hi & Welcome!

Everything looks OK so far. The only thing is that you have claimed the o/d interest, which isn't all reclaimable, but I wouldn't worry about this now.

 

These links should help with the AQ:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/57708-draft-order-allocation-questionnaires.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html

 

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Barty:)

[GeForceUK]

Thanks Barty

As I am just about to fill in the AQ do I need to remove the O/D interest from the total that I am claiming? Or a part of it, or just leave the total as is?

Thanks again

GeForceUK

[nicsussex]

What amount of your claim is made up of O/D interest?

[GeForceUK]

Hi nicsussex

About £1637.07 is O/Draft interest should it be removed from the claim or a percentage?

Thanks in advance

GeForceUK

[nicsussex]

Might be useful if you could post up the salient points of their defence - in the meantime - have a look here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/47344-claim-too-vague-defence.html

[GeForceUK]

Hi Guys and Thanks

Here is an exact copy of the defence and Counterclaim section 3.

 

______________________________________

 

1. The Defendant Lloyds TSB Bank plc “the Bank” is a Bank whose registered office is 25 Gresham Street, London, EC2V 7HN. It is admitted that the Claimant has been a customer of the Bank at all material times.

 

2. By opening an account with the Bank, the customer enters into a commercial arrangement with the Bank for the provision of banking services. The Bank is entitled, as part of that arrangement, to charge for those services. At account opening a customer is provided with details of the Bank’s charges, currently in a leaflet a guide to our banking charges. By using the account, the customer acknowledges that the charges are incorporated into the contract. For personal customers, a number of services are provided for free, notwithstanding that they are an expense to the Bank. Such services presently include, but are not limited to, providing; cheques, bank statements, the facility to make payments by direct debit and standing order, debit cards, ATMs “cash machines”.

 

3. By maintaining the account in credit, or within any limit agreed with the Bank, the customer may avoid most if not all charges. If the customer fails to ensure that there are sufficient cleared funds in the account to cover payments, whether by cheque, debit card, standing order or direct debit, the customer makes a request for a payment to be made from the bank’s own funds. If the Bank makes payment, or returns the payment, it provides a service as specified in the leaflet and makes a charge in accordance with the terms of the contract. On page 1 of the leaflet, the Bank explains that ? there are normally no charges for everyday banking at Lloyds TSB when your account is in credit.

When you use an agreed overdraft, there is no monthly fee and we only charge interest on the amount you are overdrawn each day. Where you go overdrawn without an agreement or where you use special services, such as copy statements, we will make a charge. This guide explains how these charges work, and when they will apply.

If you want to use a service that we haven’t listed, we’ll tell you the cost of that service before you give us the go-ahead.

4. There is no breach of contract; the charge cannot therefore be a penalty, consequently there is no requirement that the charge be a pre-estimate of the Bank’s loss.

 

5. The customer is given advance warning of charges being imposed; statements show the chares, if any, the customer has incurred during the course of a month, and which will appear as debits on the following month’s statement. Customers are warned by letter when they go overdrawn or over their agreed limit without arrangement with the Bank. If the customer fails to remedy the position, and payments such as standing orders and direct debits are refused then again the customer is warned by letter.

 

6. The charges are fair and reasonable, and it is denied that they are unlawful.

 

7. The customer is notified of the charges in plain intelligible language at the conclusion of the contract, and on each monthly statement. The charges are terms which related to the price payable by the customer for a service provided by the Bank, and pursuant to Regulation 6 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, and are not subject to the assessment of fairness.

 

8. In the premises:

8.1 the charges are for banking services, and are not damages nor a penalty;

8.2 the Bank is entitled by contract to imposed the charges, which are fair and reasonable.

8.3 it is denied that the charges are unlawful or contravene any statute or regulation.

 

9. The Claimant’s claim is denied in its entirety. It is further denied that the Claimant is entitled to the sum claimed or to any sum from the Bank.

 

___________________________________________

 

What is the "?" in section 3 or is that there typo?

What is "the conclusion of the contract" in section 7 surely that is the END or termination don't they mean commencement of the contract i.e when I opened the account?

 

Any advice IS appreciated.

Thanks

GeForceUK

[GeForceUK]

Hi all

Can someone please advise me I am about to fill out my AQ.

Is this a 'standard' defence from Lloyds? What about my questions that I raised on it ref the ? and the actual contract terminology?

It has been mentioned that I should not be claiming OD interest but other area mention I should what is the correct answer? I would obviously like my AQ to be as correct as possible?

 

Thanks to all

GeForceUK

[GuidoT]

Yes standard defence nonsense. You say in post 7 Defence and Counterclaim, I do not see a counterclaim, is there a part missing and do you have any Lloyds debts that they may counterclaim? SCM may have made an error - inept as they are.

 

Do not worry about the ? and actual contract terminology.

 

If you have included overdraft interest straight from your statements then that is incorrect, you can only claim the part that relates to the bank charges. Where is the 'other area' you refer to?

 

Barty in post 2 has given you the necessary links to complete the AQ. Additionally as you are around the small to fast track threshold, if you have a N150 include this in D (the last box).

 

'The claim is for £x, plus statutory interest of £x, thus £x. Pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules Part 26.8(2) (b) interest should be excluded when deciding a track for the claim, therefore this claim should be allocated to the small claims track.'

[GeForceUK]

Hi GuidoT

The title of the form that there defence is on is called the Defence and Counterclaim (Specific amount) I have copied out the section 3. Defence in the item above. Section 4. Counter Claim is blank!

I see that I have made a huge mistake in the amount that I have claimed, because I have added OD interest. So all my totals are wrong! The amount that the claim is for that I originally started the court proceedings is incorrect by £1637.07 in O/Draft interest.

How do I now ammend the totals to be correct?

 

Thanks again guys

 

GeforceUK

[GuidoT]

I would not amend for now, it should come out in the wash when Lloyds offer a sum.

 

If you amend it will cause a delay and cost you £35 (that is non refundable).

 

If it gets as far as court then you need to have a corrected schedule.

[GeForceUK]

Thanks GuidoT

I have started to write out my AQ and I have got to section H Other Information.

I am attaching the Draft Order For Direction. I take it then I will answer Yes to the question "Have you attached documents to this questionaire?" and No to the "Have you sent these documents to the other party(ies)?" ( I take it that the court will forward the draft AQ on or is it not for them anyway, just for the Judge?

Or

Do I have to send a copy of the AQ and the draft to Lloyds first by recorded delivery and get a confirmed date that they received it?

Sorry but I have never delt with a court in my life and I am convinced that I am getting it all wrong!

 

Thanks

GeForceUK

[GeForceUK]

Is anyone still there that can answer my questions? Please!

 

GeForceUK

[nicsussex]

It is considered courteous to submit a copy of your AQ to the defendant as well

[GuidoT]

Yes and No is correct relating your post 12.

 

Do as Nicsussex says regarding the AQ, send to court and SCM simultaneously.

[GeForceUK]

Thanks GuidoT

I will finish it off tomorrow and hand deliver to the court on Wednesday. The copy to SCM I will post (recorded of course) Thanks again

Wish me luck!

 

Regards

GeForceUK

[GeForceUK]

Sorry

thanks to nicsussex as well!

[McIavelli]

Just subscribing to this thread

[Big Ninja J]

GeForce - I reckon we are at similar stages - I have today hand delivered my allocation questionnaire to the court and am posting copies to SC&M tomorrow.

 

I have a horrible feeling that I have included o/d interest in my claim also - you must be a long lost twin of mine.

 

Will keep an eye on your thread and assist if I can - if you wish to do the same then mine is Big Ninja v Lloyds TSB

 

J.

[GeForceUK]

Yes I sure will!

Good luck to you!

 

Regards

GeforceUK

[Night Owl]

GeForce,

I have a claim against Lloyds that includes O/D interest. I started this all on money saving expert and hadn't read everything by then. Then I found this site and haven't look back. There is so much great support and advice.

I am at the stage where I have just been transfered to my local court and am waiting for them to give me instructions on what to do next.

Good Luck

Night Owl

[GeForceUK]

Hi Guys

Just to let you know that I hand delivered my AQ to court today and paid my £100! I really do hope this all works out!!!

I have also sent a copy to SCM recorded delivery. I suppose now it's a case of sit and wait?

GeforceUK

[nicsussex]

I suppose now it's a case of sit and wait?

 

And read

[GeForceUK]

Hi all

Received today

Notification of allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing)

District judge XXXXXX (can we put their name?) has considered the statements of the case and allocation questionnaires filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track.

The hearing will take place at 14:00 on the 5 September 2007 at...................... the hearing should take no longer than 15 minutes.

The court must be informed immediately if the case is settled by agreement before the hearing date.

Each party shall deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents (including any experts, report) on which he intends to rely at the hearing no later than 14 days before the hearing.

The original documents shall be brought to the hearing.

Date: 12 July 2007

Does this mean that my recommendation for direction has been accepted?

Now I have to put together my court bundle?

Regards

GeForceUK

[nicsussex]

Now I have to put together my court bundle

 

Yes