PSM V Abbey PLC

[hedgey06]

by pass this step and go straight to the court with a non compliance letter requesting judgement.

 

If they don't comply with the court's order - send this to the court.

 

Best of luck

[psm]

thanks, will stick to the format.

[marmite-girl]

I stuck to what i was being told on here.. and took that letter into the court on Wednesday.. my court date is NEXT FRIDAY!!! getting a bit hot & bothered about it now.. still nothing from abbey - keep hearing flutterings of them settling just before the court date.. so there is a glimmer of hope i guess!

incidentally.. abbey never submitted a bundle to me nor the court.

fingers crossed for you

marmite x

[psm]

Went to the court this afternoon and surprise surprise nothing from Abbey there either. Will be sending off reminder letter to the Abbey in the morning giving them a further 7 days to comply. Lady at the court said that the District Judges at Woolwich Crown Court are going to hear listed cases although banks have written to request blanket stays. hope this remains the case. Thanks for the support marmite-girl.

[einyuk]

i personally wouldn't bother givin shabbey 7days notice............might alert them to the impending case.

[marmite-girl]

hey psm.. anything in the post?? any news??

our post doesnt arrive til about 2pm (blinking rural postmen!!) so i wont know til later if i have anything - although it would make a fab birthday present to have a letter from abbey saying they are going to settle in full!! - i can dream!

let us know as soon as you know anything.

marmite x

[psm]

No not a suasage.I think Abbey are on a money saving exercise now. They know most cases, in the very early stages, are going to be stayed till after the OFT test case, which they will string out for as long as they can with appeals etc, the rest that rogue district judges will hear they will do little to nothing that till court date at which time they will offer to settle. They have been very sloppy so far so I would not be surprised if they have forgotten about me. By the way Happy Birthday

[psm]

Sent off the reminder leter to the abbey giving them a further 7 days to comply with the Judge's directions. I doubt very much if they will take any notice, in which case I will be down at the court next monday to leave it upto the Judge where we go next.

[marmite-girl]

me too psm

still heard nothing from abbey.. or the court.. so i have resigned myself to the fact i will be in court on friday at 12 noon!!

thought i would have heard something by now.. but no!

keep me posted!

marmite x

[poppynurse]

subscribing! I am in court on 20th, should have had Abbey's bundle yesterday but nothing received. I too am wondering what to do...

[psm]

As I understand it, the onus is on you to chase the Abbey for their documents. This is a copy of the letter I sent, It has been edited from the original supplied by GaryH, to fit my circumstances.

 

 

ABBEY NATIONAL PLC

ABBEY NATIONAL HOUSE

2 TRITON SQUARE

REGENT'S PLACE

LONDON

NW1 3AN

 

4 August 2007

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

You –v- Abbey National Plc

Claim No: ***********

 

I write in relation to the claim as detailed above, and specifically the order made by District Judge ****** dated **********.

 

You were ordered by the court to, by *********, file and serve the documents upon which your client intends to rely at the forthcoming hearing.

I have, to date, received no such documents and accordingly I hereby request that you do serve upon me these documents at your earliest convenience.

 

I consider your non-compliance to be particularly unacceptable in view of the fact that you are a large financial institution with vast resources, and feel that your litigation should be conducted in a professional manner befitting of such a prestigious organisation.

 

Please note that the evidence upon which I intend to rely was both filed and served pursuant to the order of the court on ************.

 

Should you not comply with the order within 7 days of this letter, I shall write representations directly to the district judge dealing with this claim, to inform the court of your continued non-compliance and invite further order to be made as it sees fit.

 

I look forward to your prompt response.

 

Yours faithfully

 

If they fail to respond you then write to the courts (another GaryH gem)and leave it to them to determine the next course of action.

 

Marmite-girl if things run too form you will hear from them anytime between now and the time you are on the court steps. Good luck and let me know how it goes.

[AppleCrumble]

hi psm, good luck to you

 

My court date should have been today (7/8/07) but I received an offer of full settlement on 26th July, last thing - the day before the OFT case announced, but they must have been aware of it by then, so I cross my fingers that you will get an offer very soon as you are so far down the line.

 

Like you, Abbey didn't submit any court bundle etc. I'd check with the court that they haven't requested a stay

 

good luck xx

[psm]

Just got back from work to a page and a half letter from the Abbey explaining the OFT test case and stating that they have, or will be asking the courts to stay my case. I will be contacting the court tomoz to find out if the situation has changed from the last time I spoke to them. I will still wait till the seven days is up and then contact the court and leave it up to them. Still no offer!!! In some respects I want to go to court to sit accross from someone I can vent my spleen on, they are really begining to annoy me now treating me like some ignorant pleb they can fob of with BS letters. My only concern is that if read between the lines, their letter has a smug feel about it as if they know what the outcome of the test case will be already.

[psm]

Well surprise surprise still nothing from the Abbey after the further seven days I gave them. Is it worth going to the court on Monday and lodging a Request for Judgement (N225) as they have failed to comply with the DJ's directions? Or should I just wait for the hearing on the 17th, when on current form, the pre-pubescent spotty oike will turn up to request a stay, yet another abuse of the Judicial System, I do find it breathtaking how the banks have been allowed to treat the judicial system in this country in such a contemptous way. OK they have done it to us all the time, but it seems that they can usurp due process yet still get the backing of District Judges at the drop of a hat or stay.

[psm]

I have a court date of this comming Friday at 2pm in Woolwich County Court. From what I have read there is little hope of the the case being heard or my application for judgement for non comliance being sucessful. Although I will still do all the preperations as if there is still justice in this country. Quite frankly this "closing of ranks" has left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't hold out much hope for my mood this Friday afternoon and woe betide some smug solicitor for Abbey approaching me he/she will be sent away with a flea in the ear. Can anyone tell me if you can be done for contempt in a county court? It is occassions like these where ordinary people get together and talk in a forum that highlights the papered over cracks in many of our once great institutions of this country. I am shocked at the way people have been treated at their court dates it seems now that they are not even bothering to try and make it appear that justice is being done. Anyway I will have to go shopping before Friday to buy a cap that I can doff to the judge as i am ushered out of court.

ps. I won't forget the shiney shoes marmite-girl.

[marmite-girl]

morning psm - i know its difficult to stay positive.. but each case 'should' be judged as an individual case.. so dont lose all hope! having said that.. also be prepared for the worst.. and a smug solicitor for grAbbey.. I wanted to spit at the one they sent to my hearing!

I wouldnt bother polishing your shoes.. it didnt do me any good.. just weat steel tow cap boots and give the grAbbey solicitor and kick in the shins as you exit!!

will be thinking of you tomorrow.. one week on from my ordeal!!

marmite x

[psm]

thanks m-g, wrong time of month to be going to court, should change my username to PMS. Keep an eye on the news channels can see the headlines now:

 

BUNDLE IN THE COURTS

Abbey solicitor undergoing emergency surgery for removal of lever-arch file!!!!

[marmite-girl]

fantastic! - go for it psm.. but please make sure the papers are there to capture it.. i would pay good money to see such a spectacle!

i think.. if there is any advice i can give from my debacle last friday it would be.. dont be nervous.. its actually quite informal.. i worked myself up into a right stew (as you may have all guessed) and it really didnt warrant it.. especially with the outcome!! in fact, after the shAbbey solicitor (harry potter) attempted to speak to me in the waiting room.. i developed an air of frostyness.. like.. how very dare he approach me, who does he think he is! and as for the judge.. he is just a man in suit.. no wig, no gown, quite disappointing really.. and my pen was posher than his!!

just be you and remind yourself what you are there for.. 'your money' - you might not come out with it (just yet).. but you wont go down without a fight.

xx

[psm]

21.50 and I am sitting staring at a blank page trying to prepare for my court hearing tommorow afternoon at 2.0pm All I can think of is the spectre of an Abbey solicitor requesting a stay. I have printed off three copies of the objection to a stay that I will distribute in court at the appropriate moment. i hope that the district judge will deal with my request for a strike out of the abbey case due to non compliance. Nerves are starting to kick in now. I doubt that I will need to present my case although i pretty much know it off by heart. Just hope against hope I get a sympathetic judge it all seems to rest on this.

[Lula]

Good luck psm!!! they might not even turn up

[marmite-girl]

Good luck psm.. sure hope they dont turn up and that you have a nice judge! will be thinking of you today.. cant believe its only last week when i was in the same position!

please let us know how you get on.. got everything crossed for you.

marmite x

[psm]

Have sharpened the lever-arch file and am ready for them if they do. Apart from the template objections to a stay, one of my main objections to the stay will be the fact that the solicitor representing the Abbey will have attended court without the means to defend the case in the event that the judge refuses the stay application, thus demonstrating the contempt with which the Abbey holds its customers and the judicial system. I will state that I would have been happier to accept the stay if the Abbey had complied with directions and had sent me their bundle. There non-compliance in my case and the majority of cases of this kind does not fill me with confidence that the Abbey will actual go through with the test case and will use it as another delaying tactic. Thanks for the support and I will post the outcome as soon as possible after the case.

[psm]

Where do I begin. My husband has done all the work for this and he must take credit for what i am about to tell you.

To begin with the female solicitor representing the Abbey approached us before the hearing gave us the usual garbage about OFT case and the Abbey applying for a stay, my husband said that we would object.

 

We were called into court and the solicitor went through the motions of applying for a stay. The female judge started the proceedings by explaining to myself and my husband the significance of the OFT court case and how it would be for the best interests of the consumer to clarify bank charges once and for all. The judge then asked had the solicitor seen the claimant's court bundle. The solicitor replied she had not, as she was just instructed to attend to apply for the 'stay'. The judge stated that this was unfortunate as this was probably the best bundle she had seen for a case of this kind. The judge then continued that there was a significant aspect of the claimant's case that she felt could be dealt with today. The judge then rebuked the defending solicitor for not having the attended the court with the claimant's bundle and commented that it was very presumptuous of the Abbey to assume that a stay would be automatically granted.

The solicitor then spent the next 10 minutes grovelling to the judge and washing her hands of it all.

This is where it gets very interesting and indeed significant, I hope that I managed to make notes of sufficient detail that will help others. Here we go:

 

The judge said that she would 'stay' the aspect of the case that related to unfair terms, however, the Abbey in it's defence had stated at paragraph 6 "The Claimant has overdrawn or exceeded authorised overdraft limits on the Account on a number of separate ocasions, full details of which will be provided on disclosure. Therefore by virtue of the Conditions referred to in paragraph 3 above such overdrawing was unauthorised and in breach of contract and the Claimant became liable to pay fees to the Defendant in accordance with its Tariff of Charges applicable at the relevant time. In accordance with the Conditions, such fees were debited to the Account"

The judge then pointed out that as such the Abbey were only entitled to claim back actual loss caused by the breach of contract, therefore anything over that could be deemed as a penalty charge. From what I could understand and this is where it gets hazy the judge felt that this aspect was not covered in the OFT test case (someone needs to look at this in detail). She therefore adjourned this part of the case for 28 days and directed the defendant to supply all documents and evidence they would rely on, including full disclosure of how charges are calculated within 3 weeks. I feel this is very significant and could form the basis for objections/appeals against 'stays'. I fully expect to get a letter or phone call from the Abbey in a matter of days offering to settle, if not, I would suggest that CAG contact me to represent me in 28 days time. When I receive the judge's directions appertaining to this adjournment I will post it on the website.

It was the quick thinking of my husband to ask for full details of how Abbey calculated it's charges that led them to be included in the judge's directives.

My husband then suggested that there should be a short adjournment for the defence solicitor to contact Abbey for instructions (hoping for a settlement offer) however, the solicitor probably for fear of a bollocking stated that she would not be able to contact anybody at the Abbey as they are all incredibly busy fire-fighting these cases. For her troubles the solicitor received raised eye-brows and a withering look from the judge. Could somebody from CAG contact me with a phone number that my husband can use to discuss matters arising from this case.

[marmite-girl]

wow.. firstly - glad you are back in one piece!! well done.

sounds like a different story to my debacle last week.. i really hope this works out for you.. and will keep an eye on your thread for any advice and developments.

keep up the good work..

marmite x

[psm]

I was in the court for a full 45 minutes. The judge was prepared to hear the part of the claim in so far as it is based on the assertion that the charges amount to a penalty charge taking into account the Abbeys own defence as detailed above and the evidence in the bundle relating to the estimated real cost to the abbey for bouncing a DD/SO. The judge was of the opinion that the forthcomming test case diod not cover this aspect. Correct me if i am wrong but I was not aware that we had access to the detail of the OFT test case. Anyway the case is adjourned for 28 day and the defence will be struck out if they do not provide full disclosure of chares within 3 weeks.