Log Book Loans

[madriggie]

Took out a loan with log book loans 12mths ago for £600, and have been happily paying it off every week, only missed 2 payments the whole time and paid them off immediately by upping the weekly payment to cover it. (which was their suggestion and happily did it, our fault etc)

When the loan was set up, it was to pay on a tuesday every week, we get paid on a thursday, we asked the guy at the time if we could change that, he said yes no problem, so we rang and changed it.

We got sent a letter every single week, at £20 a time for late payment, every single week, even tho we told them we had to pay on a thursday. And of course the missed payments attracted charges too but thats by the by.

We paid off the loan in March (had that in writing) but still had to pay these charges off, so we said ok, was roughly £300. Wasn't happy but we didn't see much choice.

We asked for a payments schedule and bank details (because our standing order had ended on the right date and details had gone) and they said yes no problem. No letter arrived. We rang again roughly a week later saying we needed bank details to be told it was too late, we had defaulted on the first payment and it was now in the hands of their debt department (with an extra £100 on top of the current charges for transferring it over) who informed us we had to pay off what we owed at £97 a week. We said that was impossible, we didn't have that sort of money to spare, and said we'd pay £50 a week (bearing in mind, the loan has been paid off at this point, this is purely charges for letters and phone calls (i think, not sure if they charge for phone calls!)) They said no it had to be £97 a week or they'd come and take the car. We said we could only pay £50 a week and requested bank details which they gave. We started paying £50 a week whilst still trying to negotiate with a brick wall.

This morning bailiffs (Anglia) knocked on the door, they had clamped the car and wanted £700 on the spot or they where taking the car. No way on this earth did we have that sort of money, nor does friends/family etc So the car was taken away on the back of a truck a few hours later after many phone calls and gnashing of teeth to log book etc.

And of course we now have truck fees and storage charges to contend with, and 10 days to pay up.

We had no warning, no default notice, nothing. Our last letter just said we had to pay £289 (this was before they added the extra £100 for not making the first payment on the charges payments) dated the 13th of April.

The loan was paid in full, they confirmed this in writing (tho can't find the letter now ) this is all charges they made against us in 12mths.

 

We think its been unfairly taken but we really don't know what we can do.

Solicitors seem few and far between to help, we are hoping one can help, just waiting on a phone call back (going to be in the morning now).

After reading this forum, I've realised that at no point did we realise we where signing a bill of sale (never even heard of one before I searched for Log book loan threads!) and it does feel like its been misrepresented to us big time. We have been taken for a ride big time.

I've been reading some scary scary things about this company now, and I wish I knew before hand!

Any advise, pointers, legal jargon would be appreciated, I want my car back, or my money back. Either one will do

Thanks!

[payingonlyencouragesthem]

You need expert help to deal with this sort of problem. Definitely contact your local Trading Standards, CAB and also the CCCS who will undoubtedly have experience in dealing with these people. You will probably have to go to court to get your car and money back - you are almost certainly entitled to both.

[tomterm8]

Right. The first thing to do is send a S.A.R and credit areement Request to Log Book Loans. Do this registered post.

 

The Next thing to do is to start reading up on penalty charges... the bank penalty charge law applies to log book loans as well http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

 

The final thing to do is ring trading standards, describe your case to them, and ask if what they have done is legal:) 'cause... I'll give you a hint... them reposessing your car when you've already paid the principal, and the only remaining debt is illegal penalty charges... without a court order... might not have been legal:) Might, in fact, be theft:)

[madriggie]

Yes I'm already doing this with the halifax, so am I right in thinking its exactly the same procedure with LBL?

I occured to me that they have taken my car as payment for (potentially) illegal charges, so if I made a formal demand for my charges back, I can ask for my car (or its value) back too?

Trading standards are getting a call back today as they where supposed to be looking in to this yesterday (our case was passed to them by another group whos name escapes me this morning) but didn't get back to us despite its urgent nature.

S.A.R will be sent today..

[tomterm8]

Yes I'm already doing this with the halifax, so am I right in thinking its exactly the same procedure with LBL? yes

I occured to me that they have taken my car as payment for (potentially) illegal charges, so if I made a formal demand for my charges back, I can ask for my car (or its value) back too?

 

Yes, plus damages and costs for not being able to use your vehicle, plus damages and costs for distributing your data to third party companies without your permission, plus damages and costs for breech of contract.

 

Trading standards are getting a call back today as they where supposed to be looking in to this yesterday (our case was passed to them by another group whos name escapes me this morning) but didn't get back to us despite its urgent nature.

 

cool

S.A.R will be sent today..

cool. Don't forget to send a formal complaint to log book, asking for a copy of their complaints procedure, and informing them you intend to report the theft of your motor vehicle to the police

 

...

[sequenci]

I would also check with the Royal Courts of Justice (or your local District registry) to ensure that the "Bill of Sale" was correctly registered within the correct timescale [7 days usually]. MANY MANY MANY LBLs are simply not registered and thus render the bill aspect (The security against the Chattel i.e. the car) VOID.

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

madriggie PM me urgently

[madriggie]

Great info so far!

Action is being taken

[yaffsimone1]

Is the car financed? Baliffs can only take items that belong to you they CANNOT take a financed vehicle. Regardless of whether it was a log book loan or not.

[sequenci]

Is the car financed? Baliffs can only take items that belong to you they CANNOT take a financed vehicle. Regardless of whether it was a log book loan or not.

 

i think it is bailiffs taking the "chattel" i.e. the vehicle the lbl was "secured" against.

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

Is the car financed? Baliffs can only take items that belong to you they CANNOT take a financed vehicle. Regardless of whether it was a log book loan or not.

 

They are acting on behalf of the lender LBL. However I ask are they really licensed bailiffs

[yaffsimone1]

i think it is bailiffs taking the "chattel" i.e. the vehicle the lbl was "secured" against.

 

 

I stand corrected. Lets see if it was registered! Then they surely wont have the right to take it?

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

suspect you may be correct yaff

 

Also doesn't such an order have to be served by a certified high court bailiff?

[yaffsimone1]

I find the problem is the police are 'clicky' with bailiffs of any kind certified or not! Its hard to get them to do anything especially if there is a non payment involved (in this case there isnt) but they will always back the bailiff and take his word as gospel.

[ODC]

Did you sign anything before these alleged baliffs removed your vehicle

[madriggie]

Car was ours, we bought it with cash roughly 2 years ago.

But you've lost me now with all this lol

[tomterm8]

Maybe we should start again:

 

1. Have you has a CCJ at any point on this debt.

2. Was the loan secured against the car?

3. If the loan was secured against the car, was this as a result of the credit agreement, or a charging order?

4. Did the "enforcement officer" actually provide you with any paperwork.

5. Have you contacted the loan company to assure yourself that they employed the "enforcement officer"

6. Were any threats of violence of any kind employed?

7. Were the police present?

[yaffsimone1]

I was corrected. Im aware that bailifs cannot take anything that does not belong to you i.e items on HP or other credit. I assumed this would be the case if the car was financed. It wouldnt be. But it now turns out that they may not of been able to remove the vehicle anyway if LBL have failed to register the loan as Sequenci has said.

[madriggie]

Did you sign anything before these alleged baliffs removed your vehicle

 

Only the receipt to say they'd taken it as we wanted come back on damage etc

Didn't sign any thing before hand

[sequenci]

Maybe we should start again:

 

1. Have you has a CCJ at any point on this debt.

2. Was the loan secured against the car?

3. If the loan was secured against the car, was this as a result of the credit agreement, or a charging order?

4. Did the "enforcement officer" actually provide you with any paperwork.

5. Have you contacted the loan company to assure yourself that they employed the "enforcement officer"

6. Were any threats of violence of any kind employed?

7. Were the police present?

 

you can't have a charging order on a car, it's called a bill of sale, or chattel mortgage, you wouldn't need a court order for repossession.

[madriggie]

1. Have you has a CCJ at any point on this debt.

No

 

2. Was the loan secured against the car?

Unsure, supposedly

 

3. If the loan was secured against the car, was this as a result of the credit agreement, or a charging order?

Bill of sale apparently

 

4. Did the "enforcement officer" actually provide you with any paperwork.

No, only a receipt to say they'd taken the car

 

5. Have you contacted the loan company to assure yourself that they employed the "enforcement officer"

Yes, rang them when they arrived.

 

6. Were any threats of violence of any kind employed?

No

 

7. Were the police present?

No

[ODC]

Did you get a copy of the receipt

[sequenci]

OK lets move forward with this.

The legislation goes back to the late 1800s! it’s really archaic.

 

 

• Are any of the terms in the credit agreement or bill of sale unfair, particulary in relation to excessive default charges? Could they be challenged under UTCCR 1999?
  
• Is the agreement compliant with CCA 1974? Play particular attention to the interest rate & calculation
  
• Was the Bill of Sale presented to you at the same time as the credit agreement?
  
• Did the creditor provide you with a copy of the bill of sale at the same time as a copy of the credit agreement?
  
• Is the bill of sale in the correct format?
  
• Are it’s terms consistent with the credit agreement?
  
• Was the bill of sale registered? Ask to see the court seal showing registration
  
• Has a default notice been served and if so, has the period expired?

[madriggie]

• Are any of the terms in the credit agreement or bill of sale unfair, particulary in relation to excessive default charges? Could they be challenged under UTCCR 1999?

The charges will be unlawful, don't know about any thing else

• Is the agreement compliant with CCA 1974? Play particular attention to the interest rate & calculation

Don't understand how it would/wouldn't be or what I'd be looking for

• Was the Bill of Sale presented to you at the same time as the credit agreement?

Yes, wasn't explained what it was tho

• Did the creditor provide you with a copy of the bill of sale at the same time as a copy of the credit agreement?

Yes, tho again, we didn't know exactly what meant.

• Is the bill of sale in the correct format?

How would I know?

• Are it’s terms consistent with the credit agreement?

Lots of references on in what manner to keep the car safe but it looks right.

• Was the bill of sale registered? Ask to see the court seal showing registration

How do I check this my self? I've been told it probably isn't.

• Has a default notice been served and if so, has the period expired?

Nope didn't receive one.

[tomterm8]

you can't have a charging order on a car, it's called a bill of sale, or chattel mortgage, you wouldn't need a court order for repossession.

 

Yes you're right:eek: