Claim against HSBC

[Audreygreeneyes]

Heard it on the news at 6am this morning Jim... am wondering if this is going to affect those of us who have court datres within the next 2-3 months.....

 

Seems each Judge has a different view......... thinkit is jsut a matter of time before they do make one case a test and take it all the way......(hope its notmine)

[jimclark]

If there is a test case, then at this point, the banks are going to defend pretty vigorously. Once they lose a case like this, the floodgates will open and everyone will be in there! I'd say - press on with your case as soon as poss!

[lateralus]

i don't know - i heard on the news last night - the 20 cases in hull - they actually said - if the banks don't turn up to defend - they(the banks) will win -

now how they got to that remark - i just don't know.

[jimclark]

This is my latest communication to DG.

I'm disappointed that you did not respond to my previous e-mail. For this reason I have sent my last communication to you via recorded delivery. So that there is no chance of items going missing I will send all further material relevant to this case via both e-mail and regular recorded mail.

 

You will be aware that a General Form Of Judgment or Order has been issued in this case. In case this hasn't come to your attention yet, I am attaching a copy.

 

Also, attached is my reply to the court opting to have the Order stayed.

 

I would respectfully suggest that, in an attempt to comply with, and in the spirit of, the directive issued by District Judge Molle, that we arrange a meeting to try to resolve this issue.

 

Perhaps we could meet at a point half way between our two locations e.g. HSBC Bank in Huntingdon. I could be available next Saturday morning there (unfortunately I work during the week, so it would be difficult to arrange a meeting during the week).

 

So that you can see a precise breakdown of charges, I have enclosed the spreadsheet showing the way the charges and interest have been calculated. Note that my claim has been based on simple interest, not the higher compound interest of the spreadsheet, so my claim is actually for a lower amount.

 

Should you prefer to contact me by phone, I can be reached on xxxx

[jimclark]

Does anyone have a copy of the Standard Terms and Conditions for HSBC accounts? I think it needs to be included in the Court Bundle after the TSB fiasco!

[jowalshy]

Hi Jim, I have T&C's from 1996, if you PM me your e-mail address I will forward them on to you.

[jimclark]

Thanks Jowalshy

[jowalshy]

Hi Jim, I don't think that it is advisable to put your e-mail address on a post on your thread. Maybe you can edited it to delete it from the above post. Don't worry I have made a note of it and the T&C's are on their way.

[jimclark]

Hi Jowalshy,

Thanks for the reply. Brain fade putting my e-mail address here! It's gone now. I'll wait for your T&Cs to arrive at my deleted e-mail address!

[jowalshy]

Did you edited it out?

[jimclark]

Yes!

[jowalshy]

You can edit any post you put on this site.

 

I use it to put useful info for myself on my own thread like good links and advice etc. It saves bumping up your thread to the top of the line every time.

[jimclark]

I've started the process to reclaim my old (closed) business account penalty charges. So far I've been concentrating on my personal account. So, I sent out the standard letter on 16th April 2007 giving them 40 days to supply the info. .....but nothing. Where can I find the link to the template for failing to provide the info. - data protection act 1988 - reporting you to the financial ombudsman etc. etc?

[jeneil]

Hi I think the link you want is in the Bank Templates Library, scroll down and you will see it - Data Protection Act non compliance by Alanfromderby sorry I don't know how to put the link into this message for you hope this helps a bit though

[jimclark]

Thanks for that Jeneil - I found it!

[jimclark]

Question - are the terms and conditions for Midland bank effectively the same as for HSBC?

[jimclark]

I have the CURRENT terms and conditions for HSBC. Are these changed in any way to prevent a successful claim for penalty charges? Should these T&Cs be included as part of the "court bundle" bearing in mind the lack of these T&Cs seems to be the cause of the TSB "failure"?

[lateralus]

you'll see references to the 96 t & c's - they are around someplace - and i think it was still midland then -

try here: HSBC T&Cs HERE

 

yes, we are including t & c's in the court bundle as a result of the lloyds win - also the prelim and lba were changed to ask for the t & c's as well as data held on your account (though this will have to work it's way through - anyone writing the first letter from approx 1 june will be requesting them).

 

are you doing a bundle now? when due?

[jimclark]

Yes, I think I'll do the bundle. To keep in the spirit of the directive from the judge at my local court, I've attempted to make contact with DG. This has been via e-mail (read receipt). letter (recorded - of course) and phone (just got the answering service - no surprise there then!).

Therefore, I think I can demonstrate to the court that I am doing all the work! Since it seems that DG only respond at the last moment (or when they get a copy of the bundle sent to the court) this would appear to be the next action. O.K. it's a lot of printing (but I've got plenty of cartridges!).

Any further thoughts before I send, are very welcome!

[lateralus]

ok, but go back and read your directions again - you need to show the court what you've done to get them to the table by july something and the bundle wouldn't be due until further down the line - i'd concentrate on what you need to do to show the court your attempts at resolving this - and i don't see exactly how you show them - but there is a time frame there - i'd see what you can do to meet those directions - without the court bundle for the moment, i think.

[jimclark]

O.K. I've drafted a letter to the court giving dates, times, copy letters and demonstrating that I have made my best endeavours to resolve this issue. I accept your point over the timing of the bundle to the court. However, is there a case for sending the bundle to DG, in the hope that it might get them to come up with an offer? Just thinking that when a 54 page document lands on their desk they'll know I'm serious!

[lateralus]

it's tempting - but they are very well aware of the court directions and they meet them (if at all) minimally - so they would just set it aside if the court hasn't ordered it - they only budge when meeting (or not) court directions so i can't see it would help but keep it handy - i think when your stuff (especiallly copies of what you've done) reach the judge i think he hopefully could order their defence thrown out - some have done this.

[jimclark]

Hi, while I've been pursuing reimbursement of my personal account penalty charges, I thought, why not go for my old business account charges (account now closed). I sent off the first standard letter (should it be different for a business account?). Then I used the complex spreadsheet, which allows you to claim interest on o/d charges, but not, initially on interest related to when the charge was incurred. However, I think that HSBC have assumed that the o/d interest is, in fact, the 8% court interest (which it is not). There are a few other items which have me a bit confused. Anyway these are the style of letters that HSBC are now issuing - so it may all be good reference for you guys. Here is the reply:-

 

14th June 2007

STRICTLY PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Dear

Re :

Thank you for your letter dated 6th June 2007 requesting a refund of your business banking charges totalling £ . For the sake of clarity, this and any future claim that includes debit interest will have this removed and / or the claim rejected as I am sure you are well aware, this may not be claimed at this time.

Before we can properly consider your request, you will appreciate that we must understand precisely to which overdraft charges you refer. If you wish to pursue this matter, please write to us again with a specific breakdown detailing the dates, amounts and types of the charges in question, whereupon we will be able to consider your request. Please note that for the purpose of this exercise 'Total Charges' as included in your schedule is insufficient as it comprises a number of various charging components which must be split out and itemised for the purpose of your claim.

You will find the detail of these charges on your statements and in the Pre-Notification advices which were sent during the charges period in the claim. If these are no longer held then please let me know and I will arrange for duplicates to be sent although a fee may be payable for the work involved. This level of detail / information will of course be required should you decide to take matters further.

Your letter makes reference to the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) investigations into the level of default charges set by HSBC and certain other major Credit Card issuers. The OFT statement noted represents the view of the OFT and relates solely to Credit Cards, not to business overdrafts

Whilst I am willing, (without admission), to review your claim for reimbursement of certain overdraft fees incurred where a transaction exceeded a pre-agreed facility, I am not prepared to consider any claims that include any other services you may have previously requested on that were pre-agreed and notified to you . This will commonly include Money Transmission (cheques and credits), facility fees (Arrangement, Renewal and Temporary), Stopped Cheque charges, Acquiring charges and the monthly maintenance charge any of which may have been included within your claim

I would also remind you that the contract between the bank and its customer is governed by our Business Banking Terms and Conditions. In respect of overdrafts, I would refer you specifically to Clause 8. The circumstances in which these charges apply are clearly set out in the Terms and Conditions and the level of charges is stated in our published Price List, both of which will have been provided to you when you opened your account. Additional copies of our Terms and Conditions and our Price List can be requested from our branches, by telephone on 08457 606060 or online at www.hsbc.co.uk.

If we do not hear from you again within the next eight weeks, we will consider matters resolved.

Yours sincerely

Kevin Smith HSBC Bank plc

 

 

So is this a standard letter, or, is it more conciliatory?

[lateralus]

can't say as it's a business claim and the one thing i know about business claims is this: where total charges is a legit charge to reclaim for a personal account, total charges on a business account can refer to any number of things and has to be broken down - detailed according to your statements or other paper work they send to you.

so, that is in line with what he says there - you must show what total charges you are reclaiming -

as for the debit interest - not sure why he dismisses it that way - as it is a legitimate charge to be reclaimed - although not all of it - it has to be calculated on the advanced spreadsheet - as only a portion of it (or all, or none - depending on your balance at the time) is reclaimable.

 

i'm sorry i'm not more up to speed with business claims -

Business Claims - basic guide this may help.

 

sounds like he is up for listening to any claim you might make - it will just take some work to get it ready to send.

that offer to get t & c's online or from a branch is interesting.

very helpful, mr. smith!

[jimclark]

Thanks Lateralus - just seems to me that since they were the originator of the "Total Charges" as listed on their statements, they should be the ones to explain what they mean by "Total Charges".