Log Book Loans - my car's gone!

[jj76]

Hi,

 

I took a loan out in Oct 2006 for 3K with LBL, and upto March didn't pay any monthly installments due to severe depression, i just wasn't thinking straight (which is probably why i took a loan from the them anyway). I then realised that i should do something about if, as i was feeling much better. so i wrote to them in an email and kept a copy, saying i'd been unwell and not living at home, but was back now and wanted to start repaying the loan and the missed payments, and could they send me a copy of the signed agreement and their account number etc so i could begin paying. I've been waiting for a response, then last night a company called Gemini came and demanded the keys to my car (16k) - they said my loan was defaulted and they would either take the keys and keep the car in storage until i sorted it out with LBL or they'd smash the window and break the steering lock and take it anyway.

 

I gave in, in the end hoping i would be able to call LBL this morning and sort out a payment arrangement and get my car back. I will phone LBL this morning, does anyone have any advise on things i should say? I really hate this company, they are so nasty. All i want to do is pay them back monthly and have my back.

 

Please help! Thank you

[jj76]

Hello,

 

No one replied to my thread (above) so i waited for as long as i could and had to make the phone call. Well, it seems that when i rang Gemini - they told me they're no longer dealing with the account, and to call LBL. I did, the advisor was actually quite pleasant (didn't expect that considering what ive read on this forum). She basically said that i couldnt pay monthly because i'd never made a payment, but acknowledged that they'd rec'd my letter. She gave me a settlement figure which was just under double the loan amount (i suppose because i only had the loan for a short while) so was an early settlement figure. And said i'd also have to pay £12 for everyday the car was kept in storage. If i didnt pay the money, after 10 days the car would be sold at auction and I'd get whatever was left after they took their share. Im going to have to get the money together somehow in the next few days, as the cars worth far more than the settlement figure.

 

Thanks

JJ

[calvi36]

Hi JJ, sorry but I never saw your original post. Can you answer the following?

 

1. Did they have a court order allowing repo of the car? If not then it can be classed as theft.

2. They were instructed by the finance company to seize the car so the finance company are liable for any storage costs and not you. It is upto the finance company to recover the costs from you and not the collection company.

3. What time of day did they carry out the reposession?

4. How long were you into the agreement and how long was it over?

5. How many payments had you made?

 

This is all important as if there is no judgement awarded by a court then they cannot take the car. Your first course of action should have been to have called the police if they did not have notice to repo from a court. I know this is hindsight but I would still contact the police and inform them that you believe your car was stolen due to intimidation. This is a civil dispute between u and the finance company and neither them nor their agents have any right to remove the car without judgement from a court and therefore its theft.

[jj76]

Thanks for replying Calvi,

 

In answer to your questions;

1:They didnt have a court order, but kept saying they were going to take it whether or not i gave the keys over, as when i signed the agreement the car belongs to LBL.

2: I'm hoping that I'll be able to pay the £12 per day to LBL and not start owing this other company Gemini money, costs etc!

3: They came on Thursday at 6.30pm, and blocked my car in with their van. They wore what looked like dark blue bullet proof vests, and looked very intimidating.

4:I was supposed to be in the agreement for 5 years, but it only began in Oct 2006. I think I'm quite lucky to be getting out of it for just under 6k. Over the 5 years i would have ended up paying 15k to them for a 3k loan - it's crazy!

5: None, I wasn't able to make any - but did write to them to say i wanted to start and to send me their account details as i'd misplaced everything. I heard nothing back from them until the Gemini men came round.

 

It's the worst feeling ever having these people come to your door demanding the vehicle, I sympathise with all those that this has happened to. I am so down. I feel violated.

[calvi36]

Hi again JJ,

 

there is a lot more info on LBL at this link. Hope this helps.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/vehicle-retailers-manufacturers/85766-log-book-loans-my.html

 

calvi

[jj76]

Thanks very much Calvi.

[caprikid]

Hi JJ ,

 

I am sad to hear that Gemini are still taking peoples cars without the legal documents that they should have , I have had my car taken by this Gemini company and I would say you need to get this sorted out quickly because they will sell your car !!!. They sold mine even though they never had any court order my car is gone for good I am still heartbroken but there seems to be very little I can do about it .

 

I payed log book loans more than double the amount I borrowed they still stole my car valued at £1500 I payed them over £1400 all for a loan of only £600 I am gutted by this so make sure this dosen't happen to you !!.

 

I now no it was against the law for them to take my car but it is all to late I just wish there was something I could do to get my car back . Good Luck ,Alex

[StormWarrior]

Everyone keeps saying that LBL / Gemini cannot legally take the vehicle without a court order.

Can someone PM me the legal stuff for this, cause if this is right then,..

 

Why have they not been charged with theft? or

Taking without the Owners consent? ( easier to prove)

 

Someone, somewhere must have got the police to take notice, as this appears to have been going on for a long time.

 

If someone can provide some evidence, then I would be tempted to start CRIMINAL procedings, and if required get the CPS involved as well.

It is not only the police who can get the cps to take action.

[demon_x_slash]

It seems, Stormy, that whenever the police hear the words 'debt' or 'loan' or 'bailiff' or 'DCA', their immediate response is "Civil Matter", and pull the shutters down. It gobsmacks me every time I see it posted, but it is invariably the response. Seems that the training is going downhill a bit...or perhaps the civilian relations department...

[StormWarrior]

Another good reason to make the point in court!

 

A few years ago, everyone was shouting about "zero tolerance" as a way to improve "quality of life", it seems it was a one way deal.

"we'll pick on you for every little thing, after all it is the law, but if you want something, TOUGH, unless it will get us high profile brownie points"

 

NOT GOOD ENOUGH !

[Charlotte1974]

I'm in the process of taking LBL to court to claim back all my late payment charges and the repo charges, totalling over £3000 for a £500 loan!

I have submitted the N1 form and LBL (Chelsea Park Investments) have until 8th May to respond or I can request judgement. I can't wait to have all my money back, the thieving wotsits! I hope the OP, jj76, can get the money together to get the car back and then take them for what he can get!!

[caprikid]

Another good reason to make the point in court!

 

A few years ago, everyone was shouting about "zero tolerance" as a way to improve "quality of life", it seems it was a one way deal.

"we'll pick on you for every little thing, after all it is the law, but if you want something, TOUGH, unless it will get us high profile brownie points"

 

NOT GOOD ENOUGH !

 

Yes that is a pretty good way of putting it the police are just not interested , I bet they would take notice though if some of us went to Log Book Loans / Gemini to make them take notice by using force and take some of there cars of them .

 

Traiding Standards are also a bit of a waist of time in my book, they can give advise but it does seem they dont have any powers to do anything about Log Book Loans a bit like a toothles lion if you ask me .

 

I am also in the middle of taking Log Book Loans to court but It's all about the money now as my car is gone just because the police OFT' and Traiding Standards were unable to help I am still thinking about other ways I can make those baliffs and Log Book Loans pay for all the sleepless nights and all the stress they have caused me . Alex

[powelll]

It's also important to note that with companies like LBL they rely on something called a 'Bill of Sale'. THese MUST follow quite complex rules in terms of what info is included and they must be registered with the High Court in London. I've had experience of quite a few of these loans and if the Bill of Sale is improperly executed the debt is still enforceable but it is not secured on your vehicle so they cannot take the car if you don't pay.

 

Thought this may be of use to anyone on this thread

[calvi36]

JJ, can I just say that at end of the day. You borrowed money and the finance company have a right to get back what you borrowed. You have not made a payment and if I had loaned someone money I would want it back. However the finance company have to go through proper procedures to recover these monies and they obviously they have not done this.

I do not think for one moment you will get out of the debt, you may get out of the penalty charges, but the debt will stand.

If you loaned someone 50 quid, would u want it back? Yes you would, but! Would you charge them 2000% interest and a charge for every time you communicated with them? NO! This is why they are called penalty charges and why they are unlawful.

Your car has gone, which infact you paid nothing towards as far as am aware. I don't know if you even paid a deposit.

So here is where you now stand:

 

You owe the cost of the car less any deposit paid.

car will be sold at auction which will only realise a trade sale price.

 

This amount will be deducted from what online say is the total owed.

 

If you took PPI or Gap, this will be due seperately, but you may be able to claim it back.

 

I am not going to get into technicalities but imagine how a district judge would view this. Financed car, took car, made no payment on agreement.

Treat what has happened as sep issues ie, so called bailiffs came took car, no right.

Proceed with theft allegation with police and if no joy with local cop shop then write to chief constable with formal complaint.

Defend any action of online to charge repo costs and storage, or gemini as they had no legal right to do so.

 

It's upto you what you do from here am trying to be devils advocate though and advise you best I can.

[caprikid]

calvi36 , I do understand what you are saying but the big difference is I payed more than double the amount I borrowed to Log Book Loans and they still uplifter my car . I do think however looking back on all this I was very stupid to put my own car up as securety but I did sign a contract saying that They could not take my car without a court order I thought I had rights but I now relise that those loan contracts are just there to help LBL .

 

As I have said on here many times I paid £1400 for a £600 loan and I lost my car valued at over £1500 ,to me it sounds like we have no protection and LBL can do anything they want its all just a big [problem] and they know they can get away with it but I do feel that one day they will pick on the wrong person and get what they deserve . Cheers Alex ,

[calvi36]

Hi Alex,

 

I agree 100% with you matey. My last post was directed towards JJ.

 

calvi

[jj76]

Well I managed to get my car back yesterday! After speaking with Joanne at LBL, she gave me the early settlement figure which was just under double the amount of the original loan, which i paid, and then they gave me the location of my car. It was 30 miles away in another city, at a car auction place! Gemini recovery guys who intially took the car, stole my cd's and all my loose change from the car too! I'm now going to send a SAR to LBL and claim on any charges etc.

[Charlotte1974]

When we went to pick up our car from the auction house, we found that Gemini, or the auction house staff, had taken the boot cover (we've got an estate car), the dog guard (worth £150!) the CDs and even an antique vauxhall key fob. I can't prove that these things were ever in the car so I can't make a claim for them according to LBL!! They just make my blood boil! I'm still waiting to see if they are going to file a defence against my claim, they've only got til next Tuesday!!

[Rob S]

You would have to prove on the balance of probabilities that the items were in the car if you took them to court. So it appears as if LBL have given you duff info on this. You have nothing to lose by pushing the issue with them.

[StormWarrior]

Make a list of the cd's, go to the police, report the theft, make a point about the cd's etc, having your finger prints on them.

Do you have the cases for the cd's? Are the mounting points for the dog guard visable holes ? Is the boot cover supports very clean or worn showing use? Given the way they took the car, where are all the personal effects that you would expect to find in it? All little things help.

 

IF they say it's a civil matter. Ask to speak to the duty Inspector, as you wish to make a complaint. And do it there and then!

 

They cannot refuse you the right to make a complaint. Do not be fobbed of by them saying that you have to do it in writing.

[gemspan]

I think I've read enough about this shower of sharks!!!!! Anyway, they seem to be working outside of the law in lots of areas.

 

Firstly, if they need to have a court order to take the car then they need to have a court order. No court order; no car. Simple as that. If they start to threaten and intimidate you get the police. This isnt to do with a civil matter, it is to do with assault. That is a crime and the police have to deal with it.

 

Secondly, LBL seem to be a law unto themselves. They seem to prey on people who dont have the money to go to more reputable companies and hence this is the reason they get away with it. You must make sure you get copies of all the agreements etc.,

 

Thirdly, stealing CDs from car is theft. Full stop!!!!! You must report this to the police immediately as this type of behaviour must stop. A complaint must be sent to TS and any other authority that deals with these thugs.

 

I feel really sorry for anybody who is having to deal with companies like this. I thought my situation was bad!!!! I have to say though that if anybody came to my door demanding my car I would definitely phone the police and get them removed from my property. They just wouldnt get away with it.

 

You all have my sympathies

 

Gemspan