Loosetooth vs. Lloyds

[chorlton1]

Dont be suprised if they file a day or so late and the court lets them get away with it - this happens time and again and is incredibly frustrating.

 

I doubt they would dare tell the Court that their letter got lost in the post - that is arrogant even for them!

[loosetooth]

Well they are a week late! They had until the 11th and it is now the 16th.

[nicsussex]

You have filed a request for judgement so you have done all that you can do at this stage, don't be surprised though if the court give the bank longer to issue a defence

[jshtr3]

Hi Hae a look at this thread before you do anything http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/25457-guide-reclaiming-bank-charges.html?garpg=13

[loosetooth]

Well if the form can be lost or the letter mislaid you can guarantee that it will happen to me!

 

Basically I have followed everything to the letter BUT Lloyds posted defence 5 days too late and I was advised by the court to put in a letter for judgement, which I did. They basically said that I was going to have the court issue the judgement in my favour and I should go for that.

 

Sounds good right? However they then realised that I was claiming for 29.85% interest and wrote me a letter saying the judge needs to look at it.

 

Here is where the problem comes in. Every case that I know about the bank has settled before the day of the court date. Now I know that if you claim contractual you have to be prepared to go to court, and I am BUT I will not get to argue my case in court some Judge is just going to look over it and Lloyds will not be given the chance to settle.

 

Now I am not the person to be testing these waters. I am unemployed for medical reasons and Lloyds have contributed so much to the poverty. If I get the 8% it will just about pay off my o/d. The only thing worse than losing this case would be to be awarded the 8%, which would have implications for the second case I am holding back on (in order to see how this one goes).

 

I have 2 options, allow the Judge to look at the case on the 4th June or withdraw the entire case and start again.

 

Advice and help needed.

 

Any further info given gratefully.

[loosetooth]

Hello Lucid.

 

I am reallysorry to ask this as I can see that you are totally snowed under but I may have to drop my case and need some advice. If you have time would I be able to run something past you. I totally understand if you will not have time. I have until 3rd June to make the decision, thanks.

[Kjball]

Didn't want u to feel ignored. I'm not sure of the best course of action im afraid.

 

Good luck with it though.

 

Kim

[photoman]

Well if the form can be lost or the letter mislaid you can guarantee that it will happen to me!

 

Basically I have followed everything to the letter BUT Lloyds posted defence 5 days too late and I was advised by the court to put in a letter for judgement, which I did. They basically said that I was going to have the court issue the judgement in my favour and I should go for that.

 

Sounds good right? However they then realised that I was claiming for 29.85% interest and wrote me a letter saying the judge needs to look at it.

 

Here is where the problem comes in. Every case that I know about the bank has settled before the day of the court date. Now I know that if you claim contractual you have to be prepared to go to court, and I am BUT I will not get to argue my case in court some Judge is just going to look over it and Lloyds will not be given the chance to settle.

 

Now I am not the person to be testing these waters. I am unemployed for medical reasons and Lloyds have contributed so much to the poverty. If I get the 8% it will just about pay off my o/d. The only thing worse than losing this case would be to be awarded the 8%, which would have implications for the second case I am holding back on (in order to see how this one goes).

 

I have 2 options, allow the Judge to look at the case on the 4th June or withdraw the entire case and start again.

 

Advice and help needed.

 

Any further info given gratefully.

 

Call the court and ask them why the judge is looking at the case?

 

Chances are he will just be looking to decide whether or not summary judgement would be approriate and so you just get paid, or if instead the case should be maintained on course for trial (perhaps with a directions hearing).

He would not be making a decision in favour of the defendants to just throw your case out or to order just 8%. He may give an indication that he thinks the higher interest is unjustifiable or hard to win, but that would just be his own opinion, and it would still be upto you whether or not to then continue for it. It's your case, and upto you if you wish to proceed.

 

Call the court for confirmation of all this.

 

Photoman

 

PS:

You should really contact one of the site helpers or Mods to get your posts merged...... you've made a lot of threads, and I presume they are all in relation to the same case. It is very difficult ot follow your case if you keep starting a new thread everytime you have a question. Stick to one thread for both your benefit and that of others.

[GaryH]

12 Threads merged.

 

Please stick to this one in future - starting a new thread for every single question makes it impossible to follow your progress and advise you properly, as well as cluttering up the forum.

 

Thanks.

[lucid]

Hello Lucid.

 

I am reallysorry to ask this as I can see that you are totally snowed under but I may have to drop my case and need some advice. If you have time would I be able to run something past you. I totally understand if you will not have time. I have until 3rd June to make the decision, thanks.

 

Hi loosetooth,

 

I'm not sure I'm the best person to be asking for help but I'll try. Firstly have you followed Photoman's advice yet and contacted the court? I'm not sure I'm 100% clear on your problem but are you concerned that the court are reviewing your claim because they've noticed you're claiming contractual interest? I've not heard of this before so don't really know what advice to give, but I certainly don't think dropping the claim is a possibility. You say that the only thing worse than losing the case would be to be awarded the total plus statutory (8%) interest, but you have to keep this in your mind as a possibility and at least it would pay off your overdraft. Why would it be worse than losing the case?

 

I assume what's happened is the court was planning to award judgement in your favour, but then noticed you were claiming for contractual interest so the Judge is having to review your claim to make a decision as to what they're going to award you. Whatever their decision you're going to have to put up with it, and I'm not sure there's a lot you can do now. I think it would look very bad if you drop the claim at this stage though.

 

I don't know if that's helpful but that's my thoughts on the issue.

 

Good luck. Lucid

[sabrina1041]

Hi Loosetooth,

I've just been transferred to Grantham court but no date as yet. will be interesting to see your progress. If you need any help then let me know.

By the way LTSB have entered an eleven point defence with mine.

[loosetooth]

Today the Judge at Grantham County Court passed judgement in my favour awarding me contractual interest @ 29.8%. The judgement will be issued towards the end of the week and sent to Lloyds.

 

It remains to be seen whether Lloyds will ask for the judgement to be set aside in order to post a defence (they may claim that their failure to do so had mitigating circumstances). I hope they will not but we shall see.

 

I have been a bit panicky about all this but this has largely been due to ignorance of the legal system and language, so to all you who I have annoyed I apologise and for all you who have been patient and replied nicely to my panicky missives I thank. This judgement is a massive boost and I feel much more at ease with just allowing the case(s) to run.

 

Will update as to what happens with this case when I know.

[innocent]

Congratulations so far eh.......

 

 

Here's hoping.......

 

 

Innocent

[sabrina1041]

Congrats...lets hope that all smooth from here on....Could you calrify what steps you went through on being transferred to Grantham court. I have had a notice to say that my case has been transferred to Grantham and that the AQ has been dispensed with. Now I am just waiting I presume for a court date??? Or is the Grantham Judge doing the same as Lincoln and Newark and requesting the banks committment before setting a hearing??I would be really interested to know if you have a minute. I know I keep asking silly questions but like you its quite alien to me and nothing seems to be standard. I just thought that as you have been through Grantham this could be similar for me.

 

 

Many thanks

[loosetooth]

Congrats...lets hope that all smooth from here on....Could you calrify what steps you went through on being transferred to Grantham court. I have had a notice to say that my case has been transferred to Grantham and that the AQ has been dispensed with. Now I am just waiting I presume for a court date??? Or is the Grantham Judge doing the same as Lincoln and Newark and requesting the banks committment before setting a hearing??I would be really interested to know if you have a minute. I know I keep asking silly questions but like you its quite alien to me and nothing seems to be standard. I just thought that as you have been through Grantham this could be similar for me.

 

 

Many thanks

 

Well first off I am the king of the stupid question, they are kind of necessary (and to be honest yours does not seem that stupid).

 

Second I cannot really help you here. I went straight to Grantham County Court and was not allocated there at all. I do not even know what an AQ is.

 

Once I had issued my N1 they went ahead and dealt with it all quite normally sending it out to the bank. They did not ask that the bank commit before setting a hearing BUT we did not get that far. The bank did not post a defence in time (they were 5 days late) so I just won.

 

I do have another case that I will be bringing once this one is settled.

[loosetooth]

Hello,

 

so way back in 2007 I managed to reclaim some bank money at contractual interest from Lloyds... with this I paid off my debts.

 

Then the freeze came down... the test case started and I fell into a depression (as an illness rather than I felt sad).

 

Time passed...

 

Eventually it dawned on me that the Statute of Limitations might start to apply and freeze or no freeze I should put in the claim...

 

Upon further investigation I found out that mid-2008 the FSA ruled that the test case freeze should not apply to those in financial hardship...

 

So I am composing a letter to Lloyds.

 

I decided, for simplicity, to use the one on MoneySavingExpert...and because I got contractual interest before to go for that again....

 

Questions:

 

1. It used to be that you innocently asked for only the charges back, safe in the knowledge that the bank would refuse and you would then add another letter demanding charges + interest. However MoneySavingExpert has one letter now that asks for charges + interest up front. Is that correct? Seeing as I am claiming financial hardship that would seem to be intelligent.

 

2. I can no longer find on Lloyds website a figure that they charge for unauthorised borrowing... it used to be 29.8%. Is it still? Were can I find this magical figure (links appreciated).

 

3. Do people still claim contractual interest? As I said I have had success at it myself, but perhaps times have moved on.

 

Thanks.

[loosetooth]

An added note;

 

after a 20 minute conversation with Lloyds I have ascertained that they no longer charge 29.8% as of Nov 2007... however it is what they would of charged me at the time that the accounts were active...

 

.... so am I still allowed to charge them that?

 

Key question...

[loosetooth]

12th October 2009.

Lloyds TSB Bank Plc.

1-2 Market Place,

Reading,

RG21 2EQ.

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number:

I am writing to request that you repay all the default charges that have been applied to my account since 10th July 2000, stop any debt enforcement action being taken against me] and stop adding any further charges to my account. I do not believe these charges reflect the true cost to Lloyds TSB Bank Plc of going into unauthorised overdraft.

 

I request that you deal with my case now rather than once the test case has ended as I am currently experiencing financial difficulties due to a loss of employment & disability and the FSA waiver states that you should continue to deal with hardship cases.

My current circumstances mean that I have virtually no income and cannot pay my rent or utilities. I am currently receiving letters from bailiffs threatening action on a daily basis. I am unable to hold down a full time job due to medical circumstances and am surviving by selling off any assets in order to cover payments.

Additionally, I rely on means tested benefits for my income and this has been set by the government as the minimum amount of money someone needs to live on.

I calculate that, as at today’s date, you have taken a total of £1029.50 in charges plus £474.16 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken – a total of £1503.66. In addition, I also claim Contractual Interest (compounded) under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity in our contract. As Lloyds TSB have taken unlawful charges from my account this constitutes unauthorised borrowing, thus the rate of Contractual Interest used is the Bank’s own unauthorised borrowing rate that was relevant at the time that my accounts were active. The standard rate for unauthorised borrowing set by Lloyds TSB, at the time that my accounts were active, was 29.8% (ref: lloydstsb.com, rates and charges, 12th March 2007), therefore this rate is added to the above amounts and will continue to accrue until this claim is settled. I calculate the Contractual Interest element at £5376.94 (up until 12th October 2009).

This gives a total figure of £6880.60. I enclose two schedules showing the charges & contractual interest which I am claiming. I request that you refund this amount in full. Payable by cheque directly to me.

Documents enclosed:

 

• A schedule of charges.
  
• A schedule of interest owed.
  
• A print out of Lloyds TSB account charges (taken from website) that states the unauthorised borrowing interest as relevant at the time that my accounts were active.
  

I look forward for a full response to this letter within 14 days.

Yours faithfully,

Gavin Watson.

 

 

Sorry about the size and font, but this is the letter than I am sending them... dunno if it will stick...

[JuryMan77]

subbing as interested in how you get on now considering your hardship claims, and compound interest claim - both of which i'll be using myself shortly.

 

good luck!

[loosetooth]

Okay...

 

well my approach to Lloyds is muddied by the fact that Lloyds, in an 'unrelated' action closed all my accounts. Lloyds have returned a standard letter saying that I do not have a claim for hardship (I do, but presumably a loack of an account and the fact that I asked for contractual interest means that they are willing to ignore that).

 

I have written a LBA which asked for £6880.00. I forgot that there is a limit to how much one may claim in Small Claims of £5000.00.

 

Here is what I intend to do... write a further LBA along the lines of 'I am disappointed by your response...' and give them a further 2 weeks and prepare to put in a claim of £5000.00 to the County Court... because I am not confident of navigating 'Fast Track' trials and cannot afford a solicitor...

 

... Another part of me think f*** it do the fast track... have a trial.

 

The County Court has given me the number for some kind of free legal advice service...

 

... Anyone of the 'old sweats' advice greatly received.

[GuidoT]

File your claim at court, do not send another LBA.

 

Procedurally small claims and fast track similar. Main risk is that as a litigant in person you have exposure to the other sides legal costs if allocated to the Fast track.

 

For now these are moot points though, as your claim will not reach track allocation stage as it will be stayed pending the outcome of the test case.

 

However, as the bulk of your claim is CI, it is your choice as after the stay your case may be allocated to the fast track or it maybe settled, who knows after the test case is over how CI will be dealt with?

 

It maybe the bank just pay every claim outstanding, I had a claim where the bank did just this pre test case.

 

My view is that claiming CI is okay, but if it pushes you into the fast track and exposes you to the other sides legal costs, it is a risk too far.

 

Still sweating.

[loosetooth]

File your claim at court, do not send another LBA.

 

Procedurally small claims and fast track similar. Main risk is that as a litigant in person you have exposure to the other sides legal costs if allocated to the Fast track.

 

For now these are moot points though, as your claim will not reach track allocation stage as it will be stayed pending the outcome of the test case.

 

However, as the bulk of your claim is CI, it is your choice as after the stay your case may be allocated to the fast track or it maybe settled, who knows after the test case is over how CI will be dealt with?

 

It maybe the bank just pay every claim outstanding, I had a claim where the bank did just this pre test case.

 

My view is that claiming CI is okay, but if it pushes you into the fast track and exposes you to the other sides legal costs, it is a risk too far.

 

Still sweating.

 

Hiya GuidoT,

 

I remember you helping me before... I have had a CI claim paid before too. In relation to changing the amount (from 6880 to 5000) would that require another LBA? Or would it just be that I claimed a lesser amount?

 

How would that work in terms of ammending schedule of charges...

 

I am going to lob in what I have and see what happens, but it would be good to know what would happen if the amount I go forward is less than the amount I had LBA'd for would that compromise the claim at a later date?

[GuidoT]

If you are claiming a lesser amount then there is no need for another LBA.

 

However, if for example, you were switching from SI to CI then I would issue another LBA.

 

However again, in my view LBAs are unnecessary given that the test case is a clear demonstration that the banks will reject your claim.

Edited November 2, 2009 by GuidoT

[loosetooth]

Cool... on to the court then...

[GuidoT]

Surprisingly I am even saying the same things.