Guidelines - Requests For An Original Agreement Under The Consumer Credit Act 1974

[ian1969uk]

Valhalla, I'm not saying all companies are trying to rip people off.

 

However, if they are claiming they can make the debt disappear, get it off your credit record and also get you money back, then they are lying and are not to be trusted!

[hsbcfiddled]

It all depends on what is best for you and your circumstances.

 

For me the most important thing is to be able to stop paying the debt.

Once the debt is unenforceable you then have extra funds available to hopefully avoid needing credit again.

 

Having the debt removed from your credit file is only necessary if you require further borrowing.

 

The most important lesson to be learnt (IMHO) is to try not to borrow in the first place.

 

Tip.

Credit cards are only good for scraping the ice from your car windscreens.

 

fiddled

[Valhalla]

Hi

 

Getting back to the main topic of this thread may I ask for some advice on the following please?

 

My OH sent a letter to HSBC last week asking for a true copy of any agreement relating to her credit card. The letter made it very clear that the request was being made under section 77/78 of the CCA 1974 and a postal order for £1 was enclosed

 

HSBC replied today saying that my OH's letter had been treated as a request under section 78 of the CCA and that in compliance with that section they enclosed

A copy of the original terms

A copy of the latest terms

( nothing else )

 

They also returned the postal order

 

MY questions are

What's the significance of my OH's request being treated under section 78 as oppposed to 77 ?

 

Is HSBC allowed to do this and not to send back a true copy of the agreement as was specifically requested?

 

What is the significance of the fact that they have returned the £1 fee ?

 

Any other points about this unexpected reply from HSBC and how should we respond?

 

Thanks for your words of wisdom and experience

 

Valhalla

[Dark Nova]

Afternoon all.

 

I was hoping someone could answer me a small question, I recently got a letter from a DCA in London informing me that I owe £924, however I have no recollection of this debt and the details they provide off the bat are minimal at best, I have repeatedly emailed in an attempt to make contact, and had no reply. So I would like to make a CCA request in order to see the form I signed, and I understand that the CCA request must be sent to the holder of the debt, however I am in Scotland, and was worndering if someone could clarify, does the CCA apply under Scottish law?

 

Cheers.

 

NOVA

[car2403]

Afternoon all.

 

I was hoping someone could answer me a small question, I recently got a letter from a DCA in London informing me that I owe £924, however I have no recollection of this debt and the details they provide off the bat are minimal at best, I have repeatedly emailed in an attempt to make contact, and had no reply. So I would like to make a CCA request in order to see the form I signed, and I understand that the CCA request must be sent to the holder of the debt, however I am in Scotland, and was worndering if someone could clarify, does the CCA apply under Scottish law?

 

Cheers.

 

NOVA

 

No - a CCA request will only work with debts regulated under the Act.

 

You should write to them outlining your concerns and asking for more information, which they need to provide before you correspond with them again.

 

There's a letter somewhere in the forum library, if you take a look there...

[ian1969uk]

 

MY questions are

What's the significance of my OH's request being treated under section 78 as oppposed to 77 ?

Nothing, S78 is for running account credit eg credit cards. S77 is for fixed sum credit eg loans.

 

Is HSBC allowed to do this and not to send back a true copy of the agreement as was specifically requested?

Yes they are. By sending the original terms and conditions and the amended ones, they have complied with S78. This does not mean they have a signed agreement, but they are not obliged to send this under S78.

 

What is the significance of the fact that they have returned the £1 fee ?

None really, they don't have to accept a fee for providing the information, but there is no negative impact on you of them returning that fee.

 

Any other points about this unexpected reply from HSBC and how should we respond?

Standard response really, you now need to push them on whether they have a signed agreement. A Subject Access Request (SAR) would compel them to send this if they have it. It costs £10 and they have 40 days to respond.

 

Thanks for your words of wisdom and experience

 

Valhalla

 

See above in red.

[sajp]

Hello Hollie-Lou

 

There are several companies around ofering the same service.

 

I do know that the process can take several months ( I'm going through the process myslf and have paid the £295 )

 

As far your credit rating is concerned, the advice you are given is to maintain your monthly payments until the case reaches a conculsion and ( one hopes )the debt it written off.

 

 

Valhalla

I only joined this forum today but from what I have read in the last few hours it would appear that the debt will not be 'written off'. The debt will remain but be unenforcable until the creditor can provide the correct original cca agreement. My understanding is that if this can be produced, even years down the line, then the debt can be enforced.

So these companies who charge £495 per claim and an additional 30% of 'reclaimed debt' are in fact charging 30% of a debt you technically still owe but are just refusing to pay.

I would be very wary about signing any kind of contract with a company offering to do this.

But good luck with the process anyway.

 

SAJP

[JonCris]

valhalla I'm at a loss to understand why you, who are already paying a company £295 for the service, should be asking question of this site:confused:

[lexis200]

I only joined this forum today but from what I have read in the last few hours it would appear that the debt will not be 'written off'. The debt will remain but be unenforcable until the creditor can provide the correct original cca agreement. My understanding is that if this can be produced, even years down the line, then the debt can be enforced.

So these companies who charge £495 per claim and an additional 30% of 'reclaimed debt' are in fact charging 30% of a debt you technically still owe but are just refusing to pay.

I would be very wary about signing any kind of contract with a company offering to do this.

But good luck with the process anyway.

 

SAJP

 

The debt will not automatically be written off, but them not having an enforceable agreement does give you a very good footing to offer a full and final settlement at a much lower percentage than the balance owed, and to insist on that being the end and the debt shown as settled with the CRA's. In this scenario you are able to write the debt off, as they may well decide having a few quid and no bother is better than getting nothing and having to spend on DCA's to try and chase it.

 

Whilst it is absolutely not a quick fix to remove your debts (which is the big issue I have with these companies as they seem to suggest it's a breeze), it is technically possible that your debt could be written off - I just don't think the companies bother to tell you that's going to take a hell of a lot more work (than they will do...) to get this result rather than just prove your debt unenforceable.

 

I can see why people would use these companies as it does all seem very daunting, and despite the huge amount of help available on here, sometimes it does seem like an insurmountable problem that will never end. I don't think though it's even an option for those of us in severe debt, as raising the fees for them in the first place is a complete blocker. Plus, it really is completely possible to do everything yourself using the help and advice on here, so why pay someone to do half a job when you can do it from beginning to end for free?

 

At the end of the day, if you do it yourself, that big ol' chunk of cash you're paying someone to write a dozen letters could be put towards a f+f, and the end of your debt in it's entirety!

[obewan]

HSBC say Regulation 3(2) of the CCA 1983 allows them to provide a blank agreement " relevant at the time" but not including signature box & signatures ??

 

This seems to make the point of asking for a " True" agreement worthless.

 

Is this statement correct ?

HSBC.PDF

[JonCris]

They are wrong as reg 3(2) 1983 only allows them to supply such a document in order to comply with the CCA

 

It does NOT apply (& they know it) when enforcing an agreement. That agreement MUST be a true copy of the original signatures & all T's & C's

[obewan]

So they are correct at this stage..but if they want to enforce it they have to provide an original copy - is this correct ?

 

How do I stand now if I want to deem the contract unenforceable ? Is there any way to get them to supply the agreement ?

[Valhalla]

valhalla I'm at a loss to understand why you, who are already paying a company £295 for the service, should be asking question of this site:confused:

 

Hi Jon Cris

 

I understand your question. To me the answer seems logical but I appreciate it may not be so logical to others.

 

I am trying to educate myself and learn so that in future I do not to have to pay other companies to do the work for me. I have a few cards I want to tackle and can't afford the £295 for every one of them.

 

In addition the reason I gave one card to the third party was in part because I found the entire process of tackling it myself time-consuming and stressful because I didn't understand the many in's and out's of the process.

 

I figured that by reading the CAG site and asking questions I would learn what to do and take the stress out of the process, but it takes time before one feels confident in one's own knowledge.

 

Hope that makes things a bit more understandable

 

Valhalla

[noomill060]

There is a lot to yake in- but when it does, the basic concept of whole thing drops into place.

 

Read, read, read and ask questions, as many as you want- its free:)

 

Once you get the hang of it, it becomes a blast.

I

[Jimmy Neutron]

Question!!

 

If a creditor or a DCA CANNOTT supply a signed CCA are they allowed to charge interest, place charges on the account or use your details to notify credit reference agencies etc?

 

I have a bit of a problem with NEXT & Studio, I want to get them to remove all charges and interest etc

 

Any thoughts

[hsbcfiddled]

Question!!

 

If a creditor or a DCA CANNOTT supply a signed CCA are they allowed to charge interest, place charges on the account or use your details to notify credit reference agencies etc?

 

I have a bit of a problem with NEXT & Studio, I want to get them to remove all charges and interest etc

 

Any thoughts

 

No agreement= no debt

Everything else is not applicable...IMHO

[N.P]

No agreement does not = no debt. Their is still a debt, only without the agreement they won`t get very far.

 

They`ll need the agreement to prove it is your debt, basically.

[car2403]

Actually...

 

No signed agreement = no enforceable debt...

 

There is still a contract, as a contract can be verbal, and the debt still exists as it was drawn on.

 

The issue is that a CCA debt can't be enforced without a signed agreement with the prescribed terms in, under the 1974 Act.

[hsbcfiddled]

No agreement does not = no debt. Their is still a debt, only without the agreement they won`t get very far.

 

They`ll need the agreement to prove it is your debt, basically.

 

 

OK NP If your going to be pedantic. You are correct.

 

I will rephrase;

 

No agreement = no enforceable debt.

 

Which for the purpose of avoiding paying the debt means- NO DEBT.

 

Yes its still there. BUT who cares!

[hsbcfiddled]

CAR - You beat me to it. Lol

[N.P]

OK NP If your going to be pedantic. You are correct.

 

I will rephrase;

 

No agreement = no enforceable debt.

 

Which for the purpose of avoiding paying the debt means- NO DEBT.

 

Yes its still there. BUT who cares!

 

 

 

I never realised you made a mistake, I`ll let you off

[hsbcfiddled]

I never realised you made a mistake, I`ll let you off

 

 

Thank God for that. I thought I was going to get a charge. Then where would I be!

[banker_rhymes_with]

Or, put another way...

 

No Enforceable Agreement = a Gift!

 

How very silly of them, or how very generous of them, depending on how you look at it.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[steviep1000000]

there's alot of info here Im glad I found the forum, its about time the banks and credit companies started to feel the pinch in the credit crunch

[Wanda2008]

Can anyone tell me if the CCA process can be followed for debts that have been paid off. I have three loans 2002 - £1700 2002 - £3500 and 2004 - £10000, all since cleared but I was wondering whether you can use this process retrospectively

 

Thanks