Guidelines - Requests For An Original Agreement Under The Consumer Credit Act 1974

[lexis200]

I'm in the process of apply for a DRO, which, I have been told is likely to be granted due to my circumstances and income. I just hate the thought of having to pay these so and so's if I dont have to., especially when they keep hassling me. I completely agree - it is galling to pay when there is that possibility/probability that you don't need to. I dont understand why they ask me to bring my account up to date though, when they have closed it .....

 

If they've terminated the account (assuming they sent you a valid default notice before doing this??) it doesn't unfortunately mean that the money is not due, it just means that you can't use the facilities.

 

I completely understand not wanting to pay, and of course it's your choice. I'm just cautious by nature with this sort of thing. I recently saw a thread on a Lloyds card where the poster had stopped paying after they defaulted on the CCA, but some months later turned up with an enforceable one. They are now 2k worse off. Personally I thought they shouldn't/couldn't carry on with the account when it was in default due to a CCA (I thought it should be frozen until they complied), but it seems not?

 

Anyway, like I said it's a personal choice, just be aware it can backfire. Of course it might also go completely in your favour:)

 

The other thing to bear in mind with my view is that I went onto payment plans a couple of years ago. This means I'm paying what I can just about afford, and I know I'm not having interest/charges added any more. I absolutely get it that the the not-paying argument is much more persuasive if you are still paying the standard payments and incurring charges etc.

[blondie46]

If they've terminated the account (assuming they sent you a valid default notice before doing this??) it doesn't unfortunately mean that the money is not due, it just means that you can't use the facilities.

 

I completely understand not wanting to pay, and of course it's your choice. I'm just cautious by nature with this sort of thing. I recently saw a thread on a Lloyds card where the poster had stopped paying after they defaulted on the CCA, but some months later turned up with an enforceable one. They are now 2k worse off. Personally I thought they shouldn't/couldn't carry on with the account when it was in default due to a CCA (I thought it should be frozen until they complied), but it seems not?

 

Anyway, like I said it's a personal choice, just be aware it can backfire. Of course it might also go completely in your favour:)

 

The other thing to bear in mind with my view is that I went onto payment plans a couple of years ago. This means I'm paying what I can just about afford, and I know I'm not having interest/charges added any more. I absolutely get it that the the not-paying argument is much more persuasive if you are still paying the standard payments and incurring charges etc.

Thanks Lexis. I do know it has to be paid, and I am still making token payments, but despite all this they still hassle me for more. I have sent them my income/outgoing details, a list of my creditors and amounts, even a letter from Pay Plan, but that is still not enough. Everytime I have complied with their wishes, they keep moving the goalposts!!! Just so tired of all this crap now

[car2403]

Thanks Lexis. I do know it has to be paid, and I am still making token payments, but despite all this they still hassle me for more. I have sent them my income/outgoing details, a list of my creditors and amounts, even a letter from Pay Plan, but that is still not enough. Everytime I have complied with their wishes, they keep moving the goalposts!!! Just so tired of all this crap now

 

Yup, it's called debt collection and it's what they are paid to do - hound, hound, hound you until you pay up.

 

What they are doing is wrong on many levels - if you have done all this already, Blondie, it's time to get serious.

 

My advice to you is to a) read the "Breaking News" item in my signature and then b) start your own thread, in the right subforum and post up everything that has happened to date, so you can get the right help, from the right people at the right time. Put simply, you have them exactly where you want them, (you seem to have done more than you are required to do) so I feel you need some special attention in your situation.

 

Once you have your thread up and running, come back and post a link here.

 

If you don't know how to start a new thread, check out the Beginner's guide to CAG, also in my sig...

[blondie46]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/197467-monument-credit-card.html#post2142109

 

Is this ok?

[lexis200]

Thanks Lexis. I do know it has to be paid, and I am still making token payments, but despite all this they still hassle me for more. I have sent them my income/outgoing details, a list of my creditors and amounts, even a letter from Pay Plan, but that is still not enough. Everytime I have complied with their wishes, they keep moving the goalposts!!! Just so tired of all this crap now

 

Sorry, I hope you didn't think I was being trite there with the bit about it still being a debt - it was not at all my intention (especially as I'm in the same boat as you!). I was just trying to say that even if the account has been closed it's not going to be a bar to them trying to get it paid up.

 

Car is right though, you're being hassled way too much from the sounds of it, so your own thread is a very good idea to get some personal help.

 

Lexis:)

[lexis200]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/197467-monument-credit-card.html#post2142109

 

Is this ok?

 

Yep:)

[blondie46]

Cool, thanks for the help

[dolphinbaby]

there is so much to take in on this site. Im finding ithard to get the form to request my signed agreement of my credit card with HSBc before may -07....... Help anyone?

[car2403]

there is so much to take in on this site. Im finding ithard to get the form to request my signed agreement of my credit card with HSBc before may -07....... Help anyone?

 

Check out the links in my sig - "can't find what you're looking for"

 

The letter you need is Letter N;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-bailiffs-advice/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

[car2403]

nxdio thread is here;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/telecoms-mobile-fixed/199076-nxdio-moorcroft-t-mobile.html

[piggo64]

Thanks Gizmo.

 

Sensible advice. I think your post clears up a lot of myths etc about the disclosure of Credit Agreements.

 

In my own case I have a lot of questions, but your post certainly makes sense.

 

Here Here!

[hiro666]

Hi,

 

Hope someone can help a bit.

 

I have recieved a copy of some paperwork from a DCA for a car loan that went bad a couple of years ago, but what they have sent doesn't feel right.

 

There is a letter (08/05/09) saying I owe them £4900 together with a photocopy of what looks like a fax copy of the original agreement (on it there is a stamp saying TRUE COPY with a signature but I can't make it out), another letter from the loan company saying I owe then £2737 (10/07/07), a letter with no logos, addresses or heading saying they are sending the debt to court (13/07/07), a receipt from an auction house for the disposal of the car (22/06/07), and a letter saying they have added £2200 in interest and will be added at 27% per annum thereafter (17/04/09).

 

Oh they also claim they now 'own' data about me transferred from the loan company under the Data Protection Act, as well as the right to seek further personal information about me.

 

It all looks very official and I can't see anything untoward (unlike Capquest and HL Legal) but it all seems a bit odd. They claimed to have gotten my phone number from my LinkedIn.com entry so I asked them to send the paperwork to my parents so I could check it over.

 

Does a photocopy of a fax constitute them complying with a CCA request? Any ideas on whether these guys could be genuine?

 

Thanks in advance.

[lexis200]

Not sure about the above, but I didn't think DCA's were meant to add interest/charges??

 

Not that it would for a second stop them if they're not:rolleyes:

[hiro666]

Thanks Lexis,

 

It was a simple letter just saying pay up, interest added since the account went into default at 27% (seemed a bit arbitrary) and since Googleing the DCA (Go Debt) am not entirely convinced they are genuine.

 

Am I still liable for a car loan after they have repossessed the goods? My friends seem to think that taking the car back should be the end of it.

 

Thanks.

[moneymouth77]

Knowing the system, I'd assume you're still liable for the loan even after returning the car, which, agreed, would seem to make sense. Sadly it does not.

[hiro666]

Hi Moneymouth,

 

I spoke to the CAB today and they agree, they can enforce the loan agreement even though they took the car back and disposed of it.

 

So it's like this then, the whole loan amount is outstanding, they dispose of the car for less than market value (auction) then chase you for the difference between the two. C'est la vie. A lesson is GAP insurance is not a waste of money after all

 

Oh well, time to speak to the DCA then... am over a barrel.

 

Anyone got any advice on bankruptcy?

[hunni2006]

completely confused now!

[lexis200]

No worries hunni2006 - it happens a lot:)

 

What are your issues and what do you want to know?

[creditcardkilla]

A debt becomes unenforceable under the CCA if a creditor does not supply a true copy of the signed credit agreement within 12 working days of it being requested, after a further month the creditor has committed an offence. This offence can be reported to the Trading Standards Authority (in the creditors area, not your local one), or the FSA.

 

The debt remains unenforceable for as long as the creditor fails to produce the signed credit agreement – this means if they produce the agreement some months down the line, they are quite within their rights to enforce it. They do not need to take any further action to enforce the debt. A debtor cannot take any action against the creditor for failing to produce the signed credit agreement within the prescribed time, because that is up to the agencies that the offence has been reported to. Any sanctions that may be imposed are at the discretion of these agencies, and it is not a matter that the debtor can take to the civil court.

 

If a CCJ has already been entered against a debt, then there is no point in requesting the agreement under the CCA, if your intention is to argue that the debt is unenforceable, since the debt has already been enforced. You can however request a true copy of the original signed credit agreement if you wish to check original terms and conditions etc. If they do not supply it then your only recourse is to report them to the aforementioned agencies. It would be very difficult to prove that they didn’t have the agreement at the time judgment was entered.

 

It is imperative that you continue to pay any debt under the terms of a CCJ.

 

Issuing a court claim for non-compliance of a CCA request in all probability achieves nothing to benefit to the debtor, as a court claim is likely to spur a detailed search which could well end up with them producing a perfectly acceptable original signed agreement in court – which would result in the debtor losing the case, and being made liable for the creditor’s costs.

 

If after requesting a true copy of a signed credit agreement the creditor fails to produce it, it does not mean that the debt does not exist, because at the end of the day the debtor spent the money and therefore they owe it and need to pay it back The debtor may now however be in a good position to make a full and final offer to clear the debt.

thanks for info very interesting, 1 question for you then,,,,, if a crediter breaks DPA over the phone, does that also make contract uninforcible?? as they hav'nt stuck to there terms,????/ many thanks

[Goldlady]

Hi Moneymouth,

 

I spoke to the CAB today and they agree, they can enforce the loan agreement even though they took the car back and disposed of it.

 

So it's like this then, the whole loan amount is outstanding, they dispose of the car for less than market value (auction) then chase you for the difference between the two. C'est la vie. A lesson is GAP insurance is not a waste of money after all

 

Oh well, time to speak to the DCA then... am over a barrel.

 

Anyone got any advice on bankruptcy?

 

 

How much of the loan had you paid? Was it a Hire Purchase agreement?

[JonCris]

Have you checked or had checked that the original finance agreement was properly executed - If not & it was never enforceable you can challenge their chasing you - also it may even be possible to have monies or interest you have paid refunded

[dandabyron]

Hi there,

 

I had a £20k debt with Egg that they sold on to a DCA. I was already paying off set amounts to Egg under a CCCS voluntary arrangement. When I learned the debt had been sold on to the DCA I used the template letters to ask for the necessary proofs of assignment etc etc.

I have been receiving from the DCA every 21 days (for a couple of years) a letter saying they are still looking for the documents and until they find them any action to recover this debt is on hold. I'm still paying around £400/month to the DCA but if there's a chance I can erase this debt "legally" then that's £400 I can use against my other debts.

I would be very very grateful if anyone could point me in the right direction, please.

 

Kindest regards.

[cds]

Hi there,

 

I had a £20k debt with Egg that they sold on to a DCA. I was already paying off set amounts to Egg under a CCCS voluntary arrangement. When I learned the debt had been sold on to the DCA I used the template letters to ask for the necessary proofs of assignment etc etc.

I have been receiving from the DCA every 21 days (for a couple of years) a letter saying they are still looking for the documents and until they find them any action to recover this debt is on hold. I'm still paying around £400/month to the DCA but if there's a chance I can erase this debt "legally" then that's £400 I can use against my other debts.

I would be very very grateful if anyone could point me in the right direction, please.

 

Kindest regards.

 

Which dca is it why are you paying someone who hasn't proved you owe them anything. I think you need to start your own thread and give some details and possibly save yourself £400 a month

 

cds:-)

[patrickq1]

Hi there,

 

I had a £20k debt with Egg that they sold on to a DCA. I was already paying off set amounts to Egg under a CCCS voluntary arrangement. When I learned the debt had been sold on to the DCA I used the template letters to ask for the necessary proofs of assignment etc etc.

I have been receiving from the DCA every 21 days (for a couple of years) a letter saying they are still looking for the documents and until they find them any action to recover this debt is on hold. I'm still paying around £400/month to the DCA but if there's a chance I can erase this debt "legally" then that's £400 I can use against my other debts.

I would be very very grateful if anyone could point me in the right direction, please.

 

Kindest regards.

 

you have nt had a ccj with this have you or why on earth are you paying so much money ...

i think you need to render this debt in dispute and send a SAR NOTICE TO EGG andcca the other lot

you need to see the contract no contract no debt and possible right to clam some pennies paid back..

also was their any ppi this is also reclaimable

patrickq1

could you please give us as much detail as possible and a link to your new thad

patrickq1

[rreeves2682]

I am new to the site, I recently had a company contact me saying they can see if a loan and/or credit cards taken out before April 2007 could be unenforceable. I sent off the forms for both a credit card and loan, they have recently got back to me stating that they have found the credit card does not comply with consumer act and is found to be unenforceable. I can either pay this company a one off sum of £495 or 3 payments of £175. Does anyone have a template letter i could use to send to the credit card company direct.