Mr Bump v FraserCard

[MrBump]

Hello all,

 

I'm posting my prelim on Monday for charges & compound contractual interest (about £600) - luckily I have most of my statements. I'll DPA them for the missing four after this is resolved as I'm keen to get stuck in asap. These guys are among the worst usurers of the lot in my opinion - 29.3% on purchases!

 

If you need cheering up, see the article below. Good to see some countries are taking action; I wonder if there is a CAG in Japan?

 

GE closes Japanese finance branches after reforms bite

 

• March 10, 2007

GENERAL Electric is closing 60 per cent of its consumer finance branches in Japan and cutting 15 per cent of its workforce to prepare for an expected sharp downturn in the industry prompted by regulatory changes.

 

The US conglomerate said it would close 73 of 115 manned lending branches within the year and close about 200 of its 1342 automatic teller machine loan terminals operated by Lake, a Japanese consumer finance group. GE is also adopting a voluntary retirement program to cut up to 400 jobs out of 2600.

The restructuring follows a decision by the Japanese Government to cut the maximum interest rate on consumer loans from 29.2 per cent to 20 per cent. Tighter regulation will also restrict the amount of loans moneylenders can provide to any one borrower.

Japan's consumer finance groups have also been battered by claims of excess payments and have been forced to set aside large reserves to deal with those claims.

The rise in claims follows a court ruling that has made it easier for borrowers to assert that they overpaid interest.

"We are seeing the impact of excess interest payment claims. Although the new rules are only coming into effect in three years' time, we have to prepare in advance," GE said.

The regulatory move and court decision, which are expected to hit the profitability of consumer finance companies, have already led the top four consumer finance groups to post an aggregate $US6.3 billion in interim net losses this year, due to an increase in reserves.

 

Poor them!

 

I've also got lots of other charges to get back (see below), so this will be a good claim to dip a toe in the water. Clock starts ticking on Tuesday. Watch this space...

 

Rgds,

Bump

[hellhasnofury]

Well justice will be done.

 

What goes around comes around. Its Karma

[MrBump]

Hi,

 

I'm about to send prelim to GE Capital re Frasercard charges with contractual. Everyone else seems to be applying int. at 29.9% but the actual APR seems to be 29.3%. They seem to pay out at 29.9% so should I go for that? And where are people getting that figure from? Any help much appreciated...

[electric lemon]

Hi there Mr Bump,

 

I too am about to send off prelim to Frasercard /GE Money & also would be very interested to hear the response to your question?

 

Good Luck to you & Good luck to me!

 

Best

Electric Lemon:D

[martinhw]

In the Terms and Conditions or on the statements you receive, there has to be a reference to the amount of interest you will be or are being charged. This could be a monthyl APR or an annual APR. If there is no mention of it, they could be breaching the Consumer Credit Act, as a basic requirement of the Act is making clear the rate of interest charged.

[MrBump]

Thanks for the reply. In my t&c it says 29.3%, but everyone else seems to have gone for 29.9%. I was wondering why. I guess I'll go for the smaller amount...

[martinhw]

In my opinion, I would go for the amount that is relevant to your account. After all if you did end up in court, you would be perfectly able to justify "Fairness and Balance" as well as "Mutual Reciprocality". If you were to claim a higher rate of interest, they could claim you were being exorberant or unfair.

 

That is IF it ever got to court - which I doubt!

[MrBump]

Right, next question .... I have all but four of my statements, and am keen to get stuck in, so am thinking of either just going for the charges I know about and then DPAing later, or estimating charges and adding it now. My guess is they would probably tell me pretty quickly if there are no charges on those statements. Any thoughts?

 

Also, can anyone advise on the best spreadsheet to use please? Will using the simple credit card compound contractual one and sticking in 29.3% give me an accurate figure?

 

Thanks in advance,

Bump

[electric lemon]

Hi Bump,

 

How are you getting on with your charges??

 

I am still awaiting my statements but am so going to go for contractual with these guys.

 

Let me know what you decided!

Electric:D

[MrBump]

Funny you should ask - I decided to not bother about the four missing statements for the mo, and posted off my prelim today. The amount is £200ish charges plus contractual at 29.3%, bringing the total to £500+. From what I've read here GE seem to pay out without too much hassle for the fees themselves - some have had them returned with only a phone call. I won't accept that, but may meet them at 8% interest to avoid delay and hassle, should they prove amenable to this. I'll post any news as soon as there is some! They have T-14 days to respond...

 

My first prelim - how exciting!

[electric lemon]

Bump,

 

How did you come to your figure of 29.3%?

[MrBump]

It's in the terms & conditions of my Frasercard account (I still have the booklet) and on the website:

 

Key information about your Recognition FraserCard

Below is a summary of the key features of your Recognition FraserCard Account. It is provided for your convenience and does not form part of any agreement with GE Capital Bank Limited. APR Typical 29.3% APR Variable Other interest rates

Introductory Rate

Monthly Rate

Annual Rate

Purchases

N/a

2.17%

29.3%

Cash withdrawals

via ATM*

N/a

2.17%

29.3%

Purchases repaid by

Direct Debit

N/a

2.05%

27.5%

Cash Withdrawals

repaid by

Direct Debit

N/a

2.05%

27.5%

 

I did wonder why others were applying 29.9% - perhaps there is more than one type of card?

[electric lemon]

Thats great Bump - thanks for that.

 

By the way, which spreadsheet did you use as Im having trouble getting one that agrees with me!

 

Cheers!

[MrBump]

How exciting - after firing off what seems like an endless amount of letters to various banks, yesterday I got my first response. From GE Money. Unfortunately, they seem rather confused.

 

Dear Mr Bump,

 

Thank you for your letter requesting a subject access request report, dated 27th March 2007.

 

Firstly, please accept my apologies for the delay in responding. Unfortunately, GE Money has been experiencing large volumes of this type of request, which has resulted in a delay in supplying you with the necessary information. Please be assured that I am giving this matter my full attention and I will be contacting you again shortly.

 

I would like to thank you for your patience and apologise for any inconvenience this may cause.

 

Yours sincerely

David Cunningham

Customer Service Manager

 

Well! Quite a polite start, but slightly puzzling. Firstly, a response within one week is hardly a delay, but hey, I won't complain about them being over hasty. More puzzling is that although he is giving the matter his urgent attention, he isn't giving it is full attention, or he would have noticed that I didn't actually request a SAR, as I had all but four of my statements.

 

I wouldn't mind if they did send me the data as there are probably charges on the statements I don't have, so I won't bother correcting him on the off-chance that he sends it. So, Mr Cunningham, the clock still ticks...

[MrBump]

Well, my first (partial) victory. Huzzah! The deadline on my LBA expired last Wednesday, so I thought I'd call them and see if they wanted to avoid court costs as I'd heard nothing further from them.

 

Unfortunately, I ended up in a Kafkaesque nightmare of being passed between call center staff in India, when I was trying to contact David Cunningham of GE Money in the UK. This is impossible through the numbers available on the web (there's no number on the letter he sent). I found myself in the odd position of being offered a refund of two of the latest charges by the guy on the phone, and not really wanting them as it would mean re-doing my spreadsheet.

 

Anyway, perhaps my efforts weren't in vain as today I got a letter from GE giving the usual guff about terms & conditions etc. It then goes on to say that they are reviewing the OFT decision and may change their position on 'default fees' in coming months. Then it says they agree as a 'gesture of goodwill' to refund the charges in full and final settlement of the matter. This has, apparently, been refunded to my account. Then it says that they will not refund the interest I requested (contractual) as the balance of my account was not solely made up of charges (debatable I'd say). Now, what to do? Since the claim is under £500 the fee to go to court would be only £50. I'm inclined to press on, as the interest is around £270.

 

Has anyone taken on GE solely on interest? If I issue a claim for interest only, will they then take the money back? Any thoughts?

[steven4064]

Hi Mr Bump.

 

We are in a similar (but slighhtly advanced) position. GE Money have refunded all the charges several weeks ago by cheque, which we duly cashed (and spent, unfortunately).

 

We pressed on for the interest (about £200) and Salans (GE Moneys solicitors) have filed a defence, which we have not yet received. So its basically the same process as the banks. I rang Salans and asked them if they wanted to settle before I spent any more of GE Money's money by submitting an AQ. THey said they would get back to me as they were awaiting instructions from their client.

 

Steven

[MrBump]

Thanks Steven, that's interesting. They've put the money back into my account, which means I have no access to it anyway so may as well press on. I'll watch your progress with interest - keep me posted please!

 

I see in your signature that it says 'Full offer received 18 April but with conditions'. Does this mean that they offered to cough up the interest after you filed a claim? What were the conditions?

 

Bump

[steven4064]

I see in your signature that it says 'Full offer received 18 April but with conditions'. Does this mean that they offered to cough up the interest after you filed a claim? What were the conditions?

 

Yes they made a full offer to pay the interest but only if we signed a very restrictive confidentiallity agreement. We refused.

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

[MrBump]

Excellent - that's very promising. I'm glad you didn't sign! I'll certainly crack on in that case.

[steven4064]

I certainly would have violatd the agreement by now!

 

Steven