Lady H v Monument

[Dotty111]

will do that today found a good letter in the templates so will let you know how I get on. I have decided to also serve them with a Section 85 default and see how they react to that.

[archer_66]

what is the section 85 regarding?

[archer_66]

he he he,just been on the phone to consumer advice and they said if the company hasnt signed it or put their name in the box then it isnt executed properly and it isnt enforceable! i cant wait to tell monument!!!

[Dotty111]

nice one:) but don't expect them to admit it they have been insisting that mine is proper even theough it is just a photocopy of my signature. Can u believe it I have been at loggerheads with them since December.

 

Section 88. There is a great CCA thread on this site that is specifically dealing with Section 85 defaults. It is about 200 pages long but worth the read. Basically if I am right whenever you are issued with a replacement card for eg if one expires or you lose it then under CCA section 85 the CCC has to send you a true copy of your origional agreement each time the card is replaced. As far as I can tell by reading this if they don't then they are in default. Now I have had my card since 2000 with the next issue card being sent in 2002 - no agreement sent with it so from what I believe they have been in default since 2002. I know a couple of the more experienced CAGERS have issued S85 defaults but so far I dont think anyone has got any further than that. There is the argument that maybe all interest from the time of the default should be reclaimed but again I don't think there have been any definite answers to this. I for one am most interested as it could mean a lot of money coming back to me if that is the case so I will be watching with interest. I will wait and see what Monument do once they get my default notice.

[archer_66]

i cant believe how stubborn theyre being.theyre like children never wanting to admit theyre wrong!

[Dotty111]

i know, i am just composing a long letter to them which hopefully will cover everything. Have read round on the site a lot today and got a lot of good advice and draft letters. Will post it as soon as it is ready to see what you think. No harm in going for the jugular now got nothing to lose, they have.

[archer_66]

thats very true! they most definitely dont like being told a few home truths! but theyre quick enough to act when its them asking for money!

[Dotty111]

Well here is the letter that I propose sending to Monumet. It is very rough at the moment I have put it together in between drafting probate estate accounts (what an exciting life) well if you could have a look and give any comments or advice. As I said it is just a rough draft so please be gentle with me LOL

 

 

Dear sir/madam

I refer to previous correspondence in this matter and in particular your letter dated xxxxxx.

In this letter you specifically refer to sending me a copy of an Application Form. Without having to repeat myself again you did not send me a copy of anything apart from my signature attached to a reply card, which may have been part of an initial application made by me. At no point have you sent me a copy of the Terms and Conditions, which you state that you have in your letter dated xxxxx. In all of your correspondence to me you claim to have sent me

• A true copy of my agreement
  
• Terms and Conditions
  
• Copy application

You are fully aware that this is not correct. For the sake of clarity I enclose herewith a copy of what you have actually sent me.

As stated above the copy of my signature which you have sent me appears to be part of an initial application made by me. I accept that you may well believe that this conforms to the 1983 regulations regarding copy agreements, but I am not interested in a copy agreement. I want you plain and simply, to provide me with a copy of an agreement between Monument and myself that is signed by both parties and is enforceable with or without a court order. In order to consider any action for recovery you will need to supply to the courts a true copy of the original agreement complete with all requirements to show the courts that you have an enforceable agreement. From the document that you have provided me it is evident that you do not.

You need to supply me with a copy of the original signed agreement, not to comply with the requirements of Section 78 but because your earlier replies have highlighted to me that the documents you hold are faulty and there is no agreement in existence Therefore you have been in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 since the inception of this card and subsequently are in breach of Section 85 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 on replacement of the credit token. .

This has been pointed out to you in my previous correspondence and I find it strange that you have chosen to ignore the main point of my letters and have chosen instead to refer to matters that are of no relevance.

Be advised in your future correspondence to refer to your dealings with me, not to use what is effectively a template letter that has been incorrectly changed to suit my circumstances.

Despite your insistences that the debt is enforceable it is quite clear at this point that it is not. The law clearly shows that the document that you have sent me is so badly flawed that it can never become enforceable even under an order of the court. In the circumstances I have no alternative but to request a refund of all moneys I have erroneously been required to pay to you,

Please also note that as the ‘agreement’ is unenforceable you are not able to pursue me for the debt and this includes telephone calls, correspondence requesting payment or formal notices. You should be aware that I am withdrawing my agreement for you to telephone me and all my data must be removed from your records. Any attempt to contact me to pursue any ‘debt’ will be reported to the relevant authorities as harassment. Further you do not hold any enforceable authorities to divulge any of my data to any third parties be this either a credit reference agency, a sub-contractor or any other person to whom you wish to transfer or assign rights.

I look forward to hearing from you but in the meantime please be advised that you still haven’t complied with my section 78 request and as such any attempt to enforce the alleged agreement will incur a fine of £2,500

.

[rinkydinkydoo]

Well, thats a great letter, would you mind if I copied it and used too, regards,

Rinkydinkydoo

[Dotty111]

No problem go for it and lets see if we both get another "standard" response. Can't see how they can maybe they will adapt one just for me and you!

 

Lady H

[archer_66]

yea they might think you're special! after the easter holidays i shall be writing to them about the fact that the agreement isnt properly executed they havent signed it and its just a copy of the reply card

[Dotty111]

These reply cards seem to be the norm with monument. On another thread I think in the general debt section Rinky scanned what had received from them together with all the letters and they were exactly the same as what I got. Obviously standard template letters so let us see what response we get back from this letter.

[archer_66]

yea it would be interesting to see if theyve actually got any other but the normal letters to send out.Its like theyve got a template library like us!! lol

[Dotty111]

Well I have received a response from Monument in connection with chasing up my statements. Got what was for Monument quite a grovelling letter sincerley apologising for failing to include my statements "had meant to send them with list of default charges but clearly an oversight on our part grovel grovel etc. Anyway noted a couple of interesting things. Firstly the list of default charges they initially sent me dated back to when i got the card in 2000 but the statements only date back to 2002! When I added the charges up (without interest) they come to just over £600 very nice I thought considering they don't have a copy of my signed agreement I will have this money back from you please. Oh no when I get to the end of my statements March 2007 there have been a number of credits made to my account for "credit adjustments" totalling nearly £900. Now these credits never showed up on the monthly statements that they sent me so it appears that they have just been added. Very strange! I also added up all the Payment protection payments that they have taken without my authority and these add up to just over £600 without interest and only since 2002. Not sure what to do now have sent them a default letter requesting consolidation so should I just wait for a response or send a prelim letter requesting repayment of all interest and payment protection premiums. Also not sure what to do about the charges they have clearly now credited these back to my account but the account is unenforceable. Any ideas folks!!! Oh and by the way the letter I got from them also states that no manual intervention has taken place on my account but I know it has been passed to DCA!

[Curlyben]

Ceratainly sounds par for the course.

I'm having serious fun with these "people" at the moment too.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/76915-curlyben-monument-skycard.html

 

Any advice always taken.

[Dotty111]

well I have received a response from Monument from the letter which sent them (posted above). It was really only an acknowledgment "sory you have had cause to write to us blah blah blah" saying they will respond by 10th May latest. It will be interesting to see what the say will it be one of their infamous standard letters. Still confused as to why now they have credited all this money to my account do you think they are trying to dig themselves out of a very very deep hole. It will take more than that lets say reducing account to nil blance and a couple of grand for refund of charges interest and PPI (I wish) oh well I can live in hope and see what the postman brings from Monument Towers.

 

xx

[Dotty111]

Well just when I thought that Monument may have been getting their act together they pull another blinder. Yes the idiots at Monument towers have gone and SOLD my account to CABOT. I have today received a letter from CABOT saying that they purchased my account on 30th March 2007 and they have enclosed the deed of assignment. Very surprising as I received a letter from Monument dated 13th April 2007 acknowleding receipt of my letter as posted above confirming they were investigating and would reply to me by 10th May at latest. What are they doing. I am assuming that I am correct in that they are not allowed to take any action on an account (an unenforceable account) while a dispute is ongoing. I am going to hunt round the site as hopefully this has happened to someone else and see if I can put together an appropriate letter to them (i want to try and make it as detailed as poss as obviously they don't have a clue what they are doing) if anyone knows of any good letters hanging about the site could they point me in the right direction, Hopefully I will be back soon with a blinder of a letter.

[Curlyben]

Under the Banking code Monument have commetted a HUGE no no.

 

Section 13.6 of the Banking Code clearly states that:

 

We may give information to credit reference agencies about the personal debts you owe us if:

• you have fallen behind with your payments;

• the amount owed is not in dispute; and

• you have not made proposals we are satisfied with for repaying your debt, following our formal demand.

 

What a complete bunch of muppets.

 

Also while an account is in dispute NO action may be taken until it is resolved.

[archer_66]

ive had this happen on a debt recently.they didnt have an agreement and i wrote this to them:

Dear sir or Madam,

 

 

On the xxth March 2007 I sent you a letter asking for a signed agreement to be sent within 12 days which had an enclosed cheque for £1, cashed on the xxth April 2007.The 12 days have now expired (xxth April 2007).This means that the debt is now unenforceable .Also you are now in default and cannot try to enforce payment or involve a Debt Collection Agency.If you try to enforce the agreement it will be reported to the relevant agencies and a fine could then be issued.I would also like to point out that if there is no agreement then I have not agreed that my information can be transmitted to ANYONE.Therefore I would like this to cease and any data already transmitted to be deleted.I expect this to be done within 14 days from the date of this letter when I shall be checking with the relevant agencies if it has been done.If it has not then i shall be reporting you.This includes to credit reference agencies.I want this to be done within 14 days from the date of this letter when i shall be checking with the relevant agencies to make sure.If it hasnt been done then I shall be reporting you.To carry on doing this would be a criminal offence.I trust this brings the matter to an end.

[Dotty111]

thanks curlyben and archer 66 if it is ok I will use this info in my letter to them. Will post it when completed.

[archer_66]

yea no worries

[archer_66]

has anyone heard anything lately it seems to have gone all quiet!?

[camuser]

Sent CCA request 13 april got reply 24 April.

Got photo copy of reply card and terms and conditions photo copied at bad quality can't be read.

sent S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) 13 april still waitng on reply.

Has anyone a phone number or contact details I would like to chase up this request with some calls. Also MBNA required ID to be sent with SAR is monument delay tactics the same:confused: :confused:

 

ANYONE,

 

CAM.

[archer_66]

monument just sent my SAR out but only just within the time limit! really drew it out! but the reply card seems to be standard for them

[camuser]

Archer,

Did you send photocopy IDb with SAR