Gooders Vs LTSB & Others

[Gooders]

Well,

 

Having spent quite alot of time over the last month reading through the forum I have decided to take the plunge. Ive started off by tackling my 2 personal accounts with LTSB. Sent the SARs off on 30 Jan and called today to confirm receipt, which they did. However, interestingly the girl did say " I have spoken to your branch and they confirm receipt of the SAR but due to the extremely high number of claims they invisage it will take a few weeks to get the information to you". This as you can imagine set some little alarm bells ringing and I pointed out the 40 day compliance after getting them to confirm they received my letters on 31 Jan! So looks like I am on my way roll on 12 March!!!

 

Following the advice on other threads it is my plan to follow this up with a "polite" letter with about 10 days to go and then the non-compliance if required. Is this necessary to show my willing if this goes further or is it a requirement?

 

As I am using LTSB as my 'test' case(s) I have more coals in the fire:

 

STEP 2

HBOS closed account without notification/authorisation. Informed them of their mistake 1 month ago and still no sight of my money!!!! OUTRIGHT THEFT IMHO:mad: as I have informed them of their error, given them opportunity to refund the money they just decided to take. Now thinking of requesting a 'goodwill' payment for money/daily work rate(1 day off work to sort out and another 1 next week if nothing heard) and expenses in bringing the matter to their attention(was advised that I need to go into the branch by customer services on the phone). Just a thought can I get the police involved???

 

STEP 3

Student Loan Company, over £7000 in arrears charges! which should be fully paid by summer. Then claim going in for the lot!!!

 

STEP 4

Getting any/all advese notes removed from my Credit Rating

 

I have a felling that this is going to be a long process and will no doubt have lots of questions. Please if you have any comments that will help or support me through the process I would truly appreciate them!!!

 

Gooders

[Gooders]

Right,

 

Got 2 letters back fro the lovely Lloyds ref my 2 LTSB accounts, both sent on the same day (21 Jan 07).

 

My question is that they have written back and said they will send out statements in the next 10 days going back to when I set up the account or 21 September 2001 which ever is the nearest date.....

 

Surely this goes against the DPA for 6 years of statements?????

 

any ideas anyone?

 

Gooders

[Will Scarlet]

Gooders - under the DPA Lloyds are obligated to store 6 years of your banking records. That would mean if you sent an SAR today, they would have to send you copy statements or charge schedules dating back to 16 March 2001.

Did you open your account before or after 16/3/01?

If it was after that date they are obliged to send you all records, if before, only records to 16/3/01.

I have not heard of Lloyds being difficult over this.

[Will Scarlet]

I forgot to add. I notice that you are going after the student loans company for £7k. My wife has £8k of loans and we ended up in strife last year where, through inefficiency, my wife did not defer about half of the loan.

My wife has never earnt enough to repay the loan and we now have two children of 3 & 2. It infuriated me to think that whilst there was no way my wife could pay this the student loan co still passed it on to a debt collection agency (Westcot). I had many a row with them on the phone begging them to at least describe the logic behind happily deferring one half of the loan and not the other but it was like banging my head against a brick wall.

I would love to "have a go" back but didn't really feel I had any grounds for complaint seeing that it was my wife's responsibility to ensure the loan had been deferred.

What are the grounds of your complaint?

[Gooders]

Will,

 

sorry mate, gotta be quick but will give more detail later. Basically, they haven't spoken/written to me for years. so I feel it very unfair that they have heaped the the charges on without providing me statements etc!!! And Im sure this is a responsibility that they must keep.!!!!

 

Anyway good news is they are now in default of the CCA (i was hoping this would happen as I started with SLC and then got 'sold' to deal with Honours) so no tru copy of agreement, I am still paying until the cal month is up then if still no agreement then stop paying and claim back everything I have paid in!!!! so ionly about 20 days to go!!!

 

If that doesn't work I will go after them for not informing me along the line and claim that their charges are unjust and against said agreement!

 

Gooders

[Gooders]

just a small update,

 

LTSB account 1:

 

All statements in, calculations done and claim stands at the moment for £2750ish!!! Never realised! Anyway, this is also going for contractual interest just to pee them off! Letter going in as soon as new statements arrive.

 

LTSB account 2:

 

Well they had until 12 March, got some statements but not all. Will leave it till the end of the week to see if the snailmail catches up then LBA for all statements going in.8-) Now have done the calcs and think it will be worth £2300ish (with compound% and going back to Jan 2001.)

 

LTSB LOAN

 

Never got the option of NOT having the PPI with this loan (the box was already pre-ticked for me (wasn't that kind of them???) and have now put CCA request for original agreement on 14 March. If memory serves me right it was worth about £40 a month and started in Oct/Nov 02! 12 days and counting!!!!

 

HALIFAX

 

My god they are giving me a good ignoring to! Branch now considered completly usless at helping with this. Have written to Kelly Duffy at Halifax,Andy Hornby CEO HBOS and Benny Higgins CEO HBOS Retail. All letters received by 16 March so the 14 daysare ticking down......30 March deadline for them before LBA, FOS, BCSB, OFT etc etc etc

 

AND NOW MY FAVOURITE!!!!!

 

HONOURS STUDENT LOAN

 

CCA request received 20 Feb. So 12 days were up on 8 March which means they are now in DEFAULT!!!! So its CRIMINAL OFFENSE time as of 8 Apr 07. I will pay this months payment and then........it all stops unless I get what I want!!!!!

 

Can anyone confirm that for CCA's the initial period is 12 days (ie not working days)?

 

READ MORE INFO AND CHANGED TIMESCALE FOR 12 WORKING DAYS!

 

Many thanks

Gooders

[Gooders]

hey all,

 

well 2 updates in 1 day......

 

Got back in from work to hear the phone ring.....A lovely lady from LTSB Insurance.....

 

All about the PPI on my loan in 2002, apparently loan was worth £2000 when I took it out and since I had made a CCA request (last weekish) they could not find the agreement and would therefore be providing me with the PPI claim minus the settlement for early completion of the loan!!! :)

 

So £1939ish pounds refunded plus interest!!!! now going back to 2002 that has got to be worth a pretty penny! just not sure how they will work it out as no loan agreement.....what was the rate?????

 

So the question is:

 

1) do I say thank you when I receive the letter and take their interest offer?

 

2) fight for the interest that was paid on my loan, or ask for 29.8% unauthorised borrowing??? (really not sure about this)

 

3) Say thankyou take their offer then ask for all my payments back because of unenforceable loan? (don't think I can do this because I settled the loan in Oct 2006) But if they can't find the loan agreement????

 

Think I will go down the route of syaing thanks and making sure I get a decent rate of interest as, I did owe the money and paid the premiums for 4+ years!

 

Any idea how I work out the interest? if I put the money into Mindzai's spreadsheet at £1939ish and charge a compound rate of the loan agreement rate, is this fair????

 

Please help!!!

 

Gooders

[reidnet]

The interest that I would reclaim would be at the Contractual Rate of the Agreement.

 

Well done on your win

 

Ian

[Gooders]

just a small update,

 

LTSB account 1:

 

All statements in, calculations done and claim stands at the moment for £2750ish!!! Never realised! Anyway, this is also going for contractual interest just to pee them off! Letter going in as soon as new statements arrive.

 

LTSB account 2:

 

Well they had until 12 March, got some statements but not all. Will leave it till the end of the week to see if the snailmail catches up then LBA for all statements going in. Now have done the calcs and think it will be worth £2300ish (with compound% and going back to Jan 2001.)

 

LTSB LOAN

 

Never got the option of NOT having the PPI with this loan (the box was already pre-ticked for me (wasn't that kind of them???) and have now put CCA request for original agreement on 14 March. If memory serves me right it was worth about £40 a month and started in Oct/Nov 02! 12 days and counting!!!!

 

HALIFAX

 

My god they are giving me a good ignoring to! Branch now considered completly usless at helping with this. Have written to Kelly Duffy at Halifax,Andy Hornby CEO HBOS and Benny Higgins CEO HBOS Retail. All letters received by 16 March so the 14 daysare ticking down......30 March deadline for them before LBA, FOS, BCSB, OFT etc etc etc

 

AND NOW MY FAVOURITE!!!!!

 

HONOURS STUDENT LOAN

 

CCA request received 20 Feb. So 12 days were up on 8 March which means they are now in DEFAULT!!!! So its CRIMINAL OFFENSE time as of 8 Apr 07. I will pay this months payment and then........it all stops unless I get what I want!!!!!

 

Can anyone confirm that for CCA's the initial period is 12 days (ie not working days)?

 

READ MORE INFO AND CHANGED TIMESCALE FOR 12 WORKING DAYS!

 

Many thanks

Gooders

 

 

well guys & gals,

 

Round 3 WON!!!! £1939ish + interest (contractual) and back dated to Nov 2002!!!

 

All it cost was the £1 CCA request which they are refunding because....guess what.......they don't have the agreement!!!!!!!

 

Couldn't believe it but there you go, no fuss, no nonsense just a offer 10 days after applying!!!

 

Now on with the rest!

 

Mods please add this to the Lloyds total!

 

Gooders

[reidnet]

Well Done Gooders..

[Gooders]

God you can't stop a man on a mission!!! Well not me at least.

 

Phoned up LTSB statement unit yesterday as they had been late with my SAR's (only by a week or so) I was going to fire off an LBA for non compliance but thought.....I'll try a bit of charm!

 

Well spoke to a lady who apologised for their "human error" and promised to get them to me in the post.....(arrived next day!!!) Then I decided to chance my arm. The letters I wrote we before I discovered CAG and were off the BBC, so unfortunately I had detailed a timeline for the statements (6 yers). Well I asked to speak to the team manager and had a wee chat about one SAR. Long story short and to give her her due she did try to fob me off but I blinded her with words like SAR, DPA, LBA etc and they have now sent all the records back to JUNE 99!!!

 

So tomorrow a claim for 1 account is going in for £4120ish (with contractual 29.8%)

 

Thank you very much LTSB. Basically you just doubled my claim!!

 

Next step account 2 claim for £3000ish going in once next statements arrive!!

 

Gooders

 

Counting down to 8 April for Honours Student Loan CCA Criminal Offence:D

[Gooders]

well got a holding letter with a reference number (no letters) in excess of 80,000.............heres hoping this indicates the number of us that are claiming against these unfair charges!!!!!

[MadKit]

Hey Gooders, any update on your claim?

[Gooders]

Madkit,

 

Well sorry there hasnt been an update for a while but I will try to do a quick one now and fill in more details when I have a bit more time:

 

Lloyds TSB 1

 

N1 for this account going in tomorrow. Claiming £4961.95 (includes 29.8% Contractual).

 

Lloyds TSB2

 

Claiming going in for £2818.99 as soon as the first account is settled.

 

Student Loans

 

On the back burner as they have sent me all 4 CCA's but 1 is unreadable and I still intend to fight their ineptitude over arrears & charges.

 

Halifax

 

They made an offer for £350, I countered this by saying I'll go away for £600....I have been ignored so LBA going in next week to CEO HBOS.

 

Lloyds PPI

 

Offered £2393ish inc interest. I wrote back and said that I would accept the original amount plus 8% compound interest + costs. They have agreed and I am now awaiting acceptance form for £2650.

 

Lowell Finance

 

They put a default against me for a very old credit card and have never been in touch. Sent CCA which doesnt conform to legislation and apparently this debt was paid off in March 2006 (whilst I was in the Gulf so God knows who by!!). LBA for return of £458 + 8% compound going in next week to include complete removal of default. Interestingly they have now defaulted agianst CCA by not replying to request for Deed of Assignment, Statement of account and Original Default notice. May well wait until 12 days + calander month is up before going for the jugular!!

 

Will fill in details a bit more later but thanks for asking.

 

Gooders

[Gooders]

Due to work commitments POC for Lloyds TSB Account 1 going in tomorrow. I will post my draft POC this afternoon but so far I am basing this on innocent's excellent POC as detailed here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/70343-innocent-lloyds-tsb-classic.html

 

other updates:

 

Halifax

They caved and coughed up £610.......not bad for closing my account (only had £10 in it) without authorisation...Matter closed and a happy Gooders!

 

Lowell Finance

Default totally removed. Drafting letter to ask for money back. I have no basis for this but I am going to argue that they have shown no legal right to the money and have therefore accepted payments unfairly. Will see what their response and decide what to do after that. Happy to get the default removed from CR at least!

 

Lloyds PPI

They have agreed to my calculation of £2650 and have coughed up! Matter closed and again a happy Gooders!

 

Gooders

[Gooders]

OK draft POC is below......any comments welcome!

 

1. The Claimant has a Lloyds TSB Account, xxxxxx("the Account"), with sort code xxxxxx opened on or around March 1999;

 

2. The Account is governed by the Defendant’s Personal Banking Terms and Conditions ("the contract");

 

3. During the period in which the Account have been operating the Defendant has debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract in regards to "Late Payment Fees", "Unpaid Direct Debit Fees", "Overlimit Excess Fees", etc.. on the part of the Claimant and also charged overdraft interest on the charges once applied;

 

4. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant;

 

5. A schedule of the charges and interest applied is attached to these particulars of claim; (Appendix 1);

 

6. The Claimant will rely on the Competition Commission's report entitled "Northern Irish Personal Banking" published on the 20th October, 2006, as evidence that the Defendant is aware that the income derived from its default charges is calculated to generate material profits and is not merely a means of recouping losses incurred in relation to Account defaults;

 

7. The Claimant will further rely on the Office of Fair Trading’s ("the OFT") statement of 5th April 2006 concerning default charges in credit card contracts, as the OFT's recommendations regarding standard default terms in credit card contracts have wider implications, as regards bank current Account agreements;

 

8. The Claimant thus contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account:

i) are punitive in nature;

ii) are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant;

iii) exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant;

iv) are not intended to represent or relate to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) Further to 8.a), the charges debited to the Account are penalties rather than liquidated damages. A charge is held to be a penalty if the sum stipulated for is extravagant and unconscionable in amount in comparison to the greatest loss that could conceivably be proved to have followed from the breach. A penalty clause is void in its entirety and unenforceable.

 

c) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) paragraph 8 and schedule 2(1)(e), the Unfair Contract Terms Act (1977) section4, and the common law.

 

d) Further the Claimant will vehemently refute any contention that the charges made by the Defendant are contractual service charges which are as such not required to be a pre-estimate of loss incurred on the part of the Defendant. The Claimant believes such contention would be an attempt by the Defendant to 'cloak' its penalties, in order that it circumvent the statutory and common law provisions which prohibit contractual penalty charges with view to profit.

 

e) Without prejudice to paragraph 8.d) above, in the event that the Defendant’s charges were accepted as a fee for a contractual service, they are unreasonable under The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 section 15.

9. Contractual Interest

a) The claimant claims compound interest on the charges and overdraft interest applied thereon to the claimant’s account ("the principal claim"), at 29.8%EAR. This is the rate currently applied by the defendant to the claimant’s unauthorised use or borrowing of the defendant’s monies, as provided for in the said contract.

The claimant’s case for claiming this rate is based in equity, and a legal requirement for fairness and balance.

The claimant deems the defendant’s principal indebtedness to the claimant to be unauthorised, since it is comprised of charges that are unconscionable, remain unsubstantiated, and amount to unenforceable penalties at law. If the defendant avers that its charges are fair, reasonable and therefore enforceable, its remedy will be to defend the claim by providing evidence of its actual losses or pre-estimate of costs in relation to the claimant’s account breaches. Since the defendant has been invited to do so prior to the issue of court proceedings, and has refused, and since the claimant is aware that the defendant has failed to defend any other similar claim, choosing to settle before the trial dates, the claimant deems the defendant’s charges to the claimant’s account to be indefensible, unenforceable at law, and unauthorised, since it was clearly not in the claimant’s contemplation when entering into the contract, that the claimant would authorise the defendant to apply penalty charges and interest thereon to the claimant’s account, or to profit in an unlawful manner from the claimant’s account breaches.

For the contract to confer advantageous terms (i.e. entitlement to compensation) on one party (the defendant) where there is no comparable term in favour of the other party (the claimant) is to create an imbalance in the parties’ rights and is contrary to the requirements of Regulation 5 (1) of the Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 ("UTCCR").

Therefore, to satisfy the requirement of fairness, within the definition given by the UTCCR, the contract would have to provide a mutual or reciprocal term permitting the customer to apply the same rate of interest on any unauthorised withdrawals from the customer’s account by the bank (the defendant). The interest claimed is therefore deemed to provide an equitable remedy.

 

b) In the alternative to 9 (a), should the court deem that the claim does not merit the application of the defendant’s unauthorised lending rate, the claimant claims compound interest at the defendant’s authorised borrowing rate of 18.7% EAR, based in the premise that the court finds that the defendant’s withdrawals from the claimant’s account were authorised;

 

c) In the alternative to 9 (a) and (b), if the court is unable to agree that the claimant is entitled to either of the two contractual rates of interest, on the grounds stated, the claimant avers that the defendant would be unjustly enriched if the claimant’s entitlement was limited to the statutory rate of interest in that the defendant has had use of the sums and would have used these sums to re-lend at commercially compounded rates. On these grounds the claimant seeks restitution of the compounded contractual interest at the defendant’s authorised borrowing rate of 18.7% EAR;

 

d) In the alternative to 9 (a), (b) and ©, if the court finds that the claimant is not entitled to contractual interest, the claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act (1984) at the rate of 8% a year;

 

e) Details of interest calculated & rates used are attached to these Particulars of Claim as follows:

Appendix 2 – Compound interest calculated daily at 29.8%EAR

Appendix 3 – Compound interest calculated daily at 18.7%EAR

Appendix 4 – Simple interest under s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at an annual rate of 8.00%

Appendix 5 – Evidence of the Defendant’s current borrowing rates

 

10. Accordingly, the Claimant claims:

 

a) The return of the amounts debited between 1st Febuary 2000 and 1st August 2005 in respect of charges in the sum of £965.00, together with interest charged thereon in the sum of £247.59 – totalling £1212.59;

 

b) Any applicable Court fees;

 

c) Compound interest at the contractual rate of 29.8% EAR from the date of each transaction to 12th May 2007 of £4997.54, and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.88;

 

d) In the alternative to 10.c), compound interest at the contractual rate of 18.7% EAR from the date of each transaction to 12th May 2007 of £3023.57, and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.57;

 

e) In the alternative to 10.c) and d), interest under section 69 County Courts Act (1984) at the rate of 8% a year, from the date of each transaction to 12th May 2007, of £1709.98 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.27.

 

11. Save payments into and/or determined by the Court, any sums paid in settlement of this claim are required to be made by cheque, which should be made payable to the Claimant.

 

Gooders

[innocent]

Gooders!

 

Wow!

 

I have got the overall impression from your thread that it has been thoroughly researched, and very well planned.....

 

There are issues with contractual (sometimes) so glad to see your claim

 

Congratulations on your PPI claim (have not started looking here yet.... perhaps I should plan as well as you eh?)

 

Your POC looks great; just double check figures and enclose the relevant appendixes and well......

 

"Good Luck" and I look forward to further news

 

 

Innocent

[MadKit]

Thank you Gooders, that's what I would call a Crocodile Dundee POC!

 

Oh and if it's not asking for more Sir, do you have an equivalent for PPI? Please!

 

[Gooders]

Innocent,

 

Thanks for the encouragement!! I have heavily borrowed from your thread but to be honest I couldnt have come up with anything better!!!

 

The PPI was REALLY easy. It is very hard for them to validate this insurance. I claimed that this was made a basis on getting the loan as the box was already ticked on the application form. They agreed to repay due to time frame and the fact that they never kept the agreement!!! However, from what I understand this mis-selling has been across the board and that they NEVER told people that signing up to this insurance was voluntary (I think I have read elsewhere that there was a bonus scheme for each one sold?). So my advice, unless you can remember that they specifically advised you that this was voluntary....or they ADVISED you to take out the insurance then this has been missold. Claim it back, you should get very little resistance! (check out the PPI section).

 

Further to this I climed 8% CI which they agreed to as no agreement. However this was for a graduate account and I believe that there is the same arguement for claiming unauthorised or contractual at the set rates in this case as there is for the accounts.

 

In short it was a very easy win for me and cost very little.

 

Madkit,

 

Sorry I never needed to get to the POC stage for the PPI and would be very surprised if anyone does.....has it with you?

 

As I have said above I dealt direct with the Newport Office and they agreed to my claim straight away.

 

Let me know if we need to look into a POC

 

Gooders

[MadKit]

Yes, have definitely got to the POC stage and beyond! Lloyds (wouldn't you just guess it) are contesting this and as I filled in my claim on MCOL, they are asking for more POC details. I also have claims to file against American Express and Liverpool and Victoria and want to make sure I get this right.

 

:o

[Gooders]

update.......filled on friday for £5k plus costs etc. Clerk of court told me they are ignoring everything and that as soon as I got the ballifs involved they act....ho hum lets see how it goes!!!

 

Gooders

[innocent]

Not that you need it....... but

 

Good Luck!!!

 

 

 

(its a long wait; but worth it......)

 

Innocent

[MadKit]

Hi again, was wondering if you could post the POC for PPI please? I have to detail the claim before Friday.

 

[Gooders]

Well claim deemed served 9 Jun so here we go......... I take it they now have 14 days (total or working?) in which to either notify they will defend or cough up????

 

Madkit,

 

Sorry I was away with work and have just got back, hope you got your POC in!

 

Gooders

[MadKit]

Gooders, no I haven't received any POC for PPI yet. Luckily case was delayed as solicitor couldn't make it, now need it by 20 June.

 

:o