Forced Entry Bill

[stardust_john]

My 18 year old parrot would clamp onto a bailiffs fingures like a vice.

 

I was given him by a friend and he has no value to others except me of course in that I love him. The parrots society would go mad at the distress caused to old parrots.

 

Mine by the way can poop on request, so watch out bailiffs:lol:

[tomtubby]

The Ministry of Justice have PROMISED that they WILL NOT introduce these powers until a regulator has been appointed. This was going to be the SiA (Security Industry Authority) but MOJ have announced recently that they will NOT be using SiA. I do know of an alternative proposal which is in the early stages.

 

With the recession, I would personally consider that if this law was passed then there would certainly be injuries with members of the public trying to protect their home and belongings.

[caledfwlch]

frankly, any bailiff trying to use these powers, especially with a recession coming [edited]. [edited]. "doing my job" "following orders" have been considered unacceptable excuses since 1945.

 

[edited]. [edited] Its all very well to take a few mates, but given the fee structures, that will cut into profit margins, quickly and massively. Just think of how much police time will be wasted trying to defuse situations, arrest innocent debtors protecting their property, and probably siege situations too.

 

I am actually a peaceful person!! But I WILL defend my property, and I consider the new laws to be the biggest threat to liberty and democracy in 1000 years, these are a far greater threat than ID cards and 40 days detention, [edited]

 

Is the reason for SIA pulling out, that a large number of Bailiffs wouldnt actually pass their rigouress tests and checks?

 

[edited]

 

I hate being so angry about an issue, but due to various events in the past, including my partner being mugged at the door, and having seen what bailiffs have done to friends (including headbutting one on answering the door to gain entry, with some pet policemen waiting round the corner to back him up) that I am extremely protective of my family, my friends and my property.

 

[edited] The government wont listen, no matter what the bailiffs do, how seriously they hurt someone, how many laws they break, how many lies they tell a court or a police officer, they will not be punished.

 

Welcome to UK 2008 where the criminals carry official court paperwork, and the law abiding are punished, due to life difficulties.

 

The biggest irony of all, is that this entire debt mess has been caused by the banks in the first place committing mass fraud.

Edited December 21, 2008 by jonni2bad

[Voxter]

This attitude was exactly the same in the early 90's for the poll tax but bailiffs still carried on. Violence was common place from the anti poll tax brigades.

 

I dont think even if they had forced entry it would make much difference. Household goods arent worth what they used to be & I think its very rare that domestic removals take place these days. Cars are really the only thing they look at.

[caledfwlch]

This attitude was exactly the same in the early 90's for the poll tax but bailiffs still carried on. Violence was common place from the anti poll tax brigades.

 

I dont think even if they had forced entry it would make much difference. Household goods arent worth what they used to be & I think its very rare that domestic removals take place these days. Cars are really the only thing they look at.

 

Don't forget all the PC's, Laptops and decent television sets that will disapear out but never reach auction.... And the fact they will be able to search you and take any money you have.

[arith]

A pc is all I've got; an HD pc I designed and amongst the fastest available. To think a retarded bailiffs employee can just grab it for debts I don't have is blood curdling.

Maybe Brown is just plain thick; got to give some credit because if it's deliberate to allow bailiffs into anyones house to rape and pillage surely that is against EU law.

[Tryst]

Oh there's no doubt banks have been a major cause of the problems we now face. The gov't gave banks control over interest rates some years ago. Talk about giving a crook a loaded gun, banks have a vested interest in keeping the rates high, it's their own income it affects.

 

As for bailiffs, once again the government give a loaded gun to a crook with this law. Courts won't contest the applications for court orders, they don't have the manpower to check the validity of every piece of evidence that the debtor lives there. The bailiffs know that and have used it to their advantage for years.

 

My friend had a run-in with a bailiff because he came home to find his house had been ransacked. A call to the police revealed that the bailiff had been there on a walking posession order. It turns out that it was for the previous tennant but it still took my friend nearly 4 months to recover the true value of the goods they took plus a hefty compensation order. He never got the stuff back, it all "went to auction" before the bailiffs got the order to return the stuff. Amazing, seeing as one thing was my friends 1500 quid computer. I have no doubt it is now sitting in the front room of either one of the bailiffs or his family. His main annoyance is that his late brother wrote software and some of the programs on his PC were written by him and therefore irreplaceable. The payment of the value of the goods and compensation still couldn't replace everything, even the backup CD's were taken. My friend now has lost everything his brother wrote and since his death in a car crash, i'ts not as if my friend can go back and ask him to re-write it. The programs were only minor applications with absolutely no value but had sentimental value to my friend.

 

My point here is that they have walked in with a walking posession order and seen that nothing on their list was actually in the house. The furniture was different and everything else was different, were they so stupid that it didn't ring any alarm bells? It also points out that the court who issued the order to force entry didn't check to see if the debtor still lived there. Finally, the time between the bailiff entering and obtaining the list of the debtors property and enforcing the walking posession order was 3 months so the court didn't even bother to look at that either.

[Tryst]

With the recession, I would personally consider that if this law was passed then there would certainly be injuries with members of the public trying to protect their home and belongings.

Injuries? Understatement indeed. I'd predict a very high mortality rate for bailiffs who decide to persue this course of action.

 

 

 

I have only one thing of value in my house which is my PC. It contains programs written by me that are completely irreplaceable, a terrabyte disk full of scanned photos of my family who are now all dead and the photos lost during a flood. I can't even back up that disk, it would take over 250 DVD's to back it up and probably three weeks of solid burning to do it. I am now working on a program to try to get into the software business, all of the source files are on another disk on the PC. I'm sure they would let me strip out the disks before they took it

 

If they took the PC while I was out of the house, I would be totally devastated It would not only completely destroy the only memories I have left of my family but would also destroy my life since all my work on the software would be gone too. I am a qualified computer programmer so this PC is "tools of the trade" but I can't see that mattering to them if I'm not around to tell them. As I found out from my friend who let the bailiff in once, his laptop which was on a HP agreement was taken and wiped by the time he got it back. It wasn't going to any auction, one of the bailiffs had already earmarked it and taken it home because it was worth far in excess of their "estimated value".

Edited May 17, 2010 by maroondevo52
Removed unsuitable comments

[High Court Enforcer]

Yes, Tryst, didnt you know bailiffs only decorate their houses with debtors goods....

[loopinlouie]

Yes, Tryst, didnt you know bailiffs only decorate their houses with debtors goods....

 

I wouldnt put it past you and think trsyt is correct on this point. I would guess bailiffs dont have to often pay full price for electrical high value goods:roll::roll:

[High Court Enforcer]

Laughable

[RaeUK]

... but also plausible!

 

Rae

[pompeyfaith]

Laughable :grin:

That's why you bailiffs have got yourselves a bad name preying on folk who you think are ignorant of the law.

 

Had my own run in with a bailiff today trying to charge an extra £156.00 on a debt of £100 the council would not take the debt back until they realized I knew the law and that capita and equita were one and the same.

 

Yup they soon took it back then and ended up only having to pay the outstanding tax bill of £52 why because it should never have gone to a bailiff in the first place due to there being two disabled people at this address which the council knew about.

[RaeUK]

Well done PF, glad to hear it.

Best wishes

Rae

[loopinlouie]

Laughable

 

Yep, the laughs on your industry. Fight back time:D

[loopinlouie]

... but also plausible!

 

Rae

 

[seanamarts]

... but also plausible!

 

Rae

very much so, bailiffs have been known to privately sell seized goods, more commonly cars or have a nod nod wink wink deal with an auctioneer

[pompeyfaith]

Kelcou,

 

Well I told them I was also going to get my councillor involved as I knew she is good as she helped me out once when they owed me a lot of money due to a discount not being applied for 14 yrs.

 

the council (capita) soon changed there tune.

 

But I do just just blame the bailiffs because in many instances like mine the council are also at fault mainly the ones that have capita running there revenues dept because in many cases the council are aware that these debts should not have been past to bailiffs in the first place.

 

They can indeed tell this by documentation that was handed to them when working out the bill.

 

PF

Edited May 17, 2010 by pompeyfaith

[loopinlouie]

very much so, bailiffs have been known to privately sell seized goods, more commonly cars or have a nod nod wink wink deal with an auctioneer

 

The funny handshake brigade:eek:

[Dodgy Geezer]

Yes, Tryst, didnt you know bailiffs only decorate their houses with debtors goods....

 

No, not all. Only the immoral ones.

 

That leaves, um, err, oh. Yes, i guess you are right.

[tomtubby]

Injuries? Understatement indeed. I'd predict a very high mortality rate for bailiffs who decide to persue this course of action.

 

 

 

I have only one thing of value in my house which is my PC. It contains programs written by me that are completely irreplaceable, a terrabyte disk full of scanned photos of my family who are now all dead and the photos lost during a flood. I can't even back up that disk, it would take over 250 DVD's to back it up and probably three weeks of solid burning to do it. I am now working on a program to try to get into the software business, all of the source files are on another disk on the PC. I'm sure they would let me strip out the disks before they took it

 

If they took the PC while I was out of the house, I would be totally devastated It would not only completely destroy the only memories I have left of my family but would also destroy my life since all my work on the software would be gone too. I am a qualified computer programmer so this PC is "tools of the trade" but I can't see that mattering to them if I'm not around to tell them. As I found out from my friend who let the bailiff in once, his laptop which was on a HP agreement was taken and wiped by the time he got it back. It wasn't going to any auction, one of the bailiffs had already earmarked it and taken it home because it was worth far in excess of their "estimated value".

.

 

Hopefully the right for a bailiff to force entry may well change soon. I posted the following link on a separate thread today:

 

LORD LUCAS is the Chair of the Enforcement Law Reform Group and he posted the following on his Blog yesterday:

 

...Bailiff powers of forced entry...

 

 

Before the General Election, David Cameron vowed to repeal a range of 'Big Brother' laws, including the controversial use of force by bailiffs. The repeal should include not just the power of forced entry to premises and to restrain people, contained in the Tribunals, Courts & Enforcement Act 2007, but also the forced entry provisions for fine enforcement slipped into the final stages of the Domestic Violence, Crime & Victims Act 2004.

 

Although statistics imply that this power is used only about once every two months, it is a power that rarely has to be used. As a matter of 'good' practice, bailiffs daily explain to people that unless they let them in, forced entry will be undertaken with police support. Who could fail to cooperate in the face of such persuasion? It is a stain on our civil liberties.

 

As the forced entry provision was going through Parliament, Labour Ministers were clear that it would be used only against people convicted of a crime. They didn't mention that they included crimes like truancy and failing to buy a TV licence; they didn't mention that they would be used against the families of those who committed these 'crimes'.

 

The new Government should turn back the clock so that fines are once again civil debts owed to the State, and restore the principle that all bailiffs must act peacefully against property and people.

 

.

[Tryst]

So many enforcement agencies use underhand tactics. Even TV licensing who write telling you that you need a TV license for a mobile phone, a laptop and a PC. They fail to mention this is only applicable if they have the ability to "recieve braodcast signals" and I don't know of any mobile phone that can receive and display broadcast TV signals.

 

Civil debt Bailiffs often state that they have the right to force entry without mentioning that it is only if they have a walking posession order that they can only obtain at present by peaceful entry.

 

These scare tactics are used all the time by a lot of authorities. They have no idea who the person is, what medical problems they may have and the stress and worry from this sort of approach could easily lead to serious results like heart attacks and such.

 

Imagine someone suffering from severe depression suddenly getting a letter to say a bailiff is going to break in and steal all their stuff. If that person is already prone to suicididal tendencies, what do you think the possible result of that would be?

 

I said "steal" since it is legalised theft as far as I am concerned, in the same way as stealing your car because it has no tax disk. If you owed me £100 and I came and took your stereo or your car because you did not pay me back, you would have me done for theft.

[seanamarts]

They fail to mention this is only applicable if they have the ability to "recieve braodcast signals" and I don't know of any mobile phone that can receive and display broadcast TV signals.

 

Quad Band Touchscreen Cell Phone - Dual SIM / Dual Standby

 

you do now crap reception though

[Tryst]

Quad Band Touchscreen Cell Phone - Dual SIM / Dual Standby

 

you do now crap reception though

OK fair enough, I didn't know about that phone but the letter implies that all mobiles require a TV license. The one I use is so old that I think even guys in the trenches in WW1 had more modern ones. TV? It has enough trouble picking up phone calls.

[biggeorge]

Gsmart T600 Digital TV phone, Get 90 tv and radio channels, very good quality.

 

Back to subject:

 

Baliffs, not had the pleasure yet but this power will certainly cause some trouble especially if they can take your pets, Cant believe that's allowed.

 

I myself would defend my pets (3 staffs) or they would defend me and the property within.

 

A few years ago when I was out of work and money was really tight my father helped me out but he's always been a tight git so wanted some security.

I made a document up listing all my property,Televisions, DVD Players ,sofa etc.. basically all my goods in the house.

The deal was he lent me the £4000 I needed to sort some stuff out and the agreement I wrote out as a bill of sale for £4000 and then a hire agreement at the rate of £50 a week that we had worked out to repay his £4000.

The items in my home now all belonged to my father until I had paid him back the £4000.

 

Now the question is can every use this legally.

 

Example:

 

Someone has real financial mess/hell and know bailiffs are going to be calling.

 

1: Make a list of all household goods worth anything

2: Make a bill of sale and sell everything to someone

3: Make a hire agreement relating to all the goods (including pets)

4: Print both out in large print and stick inside home main door way so

any trespassers entering can't miss them.

 

5: Any property then taken can be classed as theft and the person/s responsible face the full arm of the law.

 

Not sure why this can't work as most people getting calls from bailiffs are in financial trouble otherwise they would have paid the bills.

Just a matter of making the documents legal.

 

George