MacKenzie Hall New Harrassment

[denver]

Some advice please.

I had a loan with Black Horse. I stopped making payments when I was made redundant. The insurance wouldn't cover the payments because the term of the loan had expired (I had missed some payments). The loan insurance took 6 months to tell me this bad news but all along advised me it was still my duty to pay the installments until sorted things out but I wasn't able to pay. During this time I had various letters fron Nationwide Credit Services demanding the outstanding amount. I believe NCS are part of Black Horse.

Now I have had a call from MacKenzie Hall threatening to call my employers etc. (they don't know who I work for). The bloke was so rude and nasty that I am still livid. I was trying to agree an amount that I could afford but he just kept demanding ridiculous monthly amounts. I even asked how I could pay money in the bank towards my debt and the bloke said "we don't do paying in books" and then grudgingly gave me bank details for me to set up a standing order.

Today I've had a letter "Potential Action" asking for the whole amount or to phone (yeah, right).

I want to give these b***** the runaround. I'm going to send the letter asking for a copy of the credit agreement. What else can I ask for? Breakdown? I think there are late payment charges of £25 a go in there. Where do I stand with those? Help would be really appreciated.

[lookinforinfo]

Denver, to stop Natonwide, send them a a CCA request along with a £1 postal order. They have twelve working days [plus two days to allow for delivery]

to respond. Most of them don't, which puts them in default, and as long as they fail to comply with your statutory demand, they are not allowed to pursue you for the debt. If they still haven't responded after a further month, they have committed a criminal offence and your debt cannot be pursued without a Court Order. You will find the template letter for the request in the General Debt section, then you want the last thread in the

"sticky" subsection-letter N.

 

To find out what charges have been levied on your account, you will need

to send Black Horse £10 postal order plus an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) which you will find in the FAQS on the first page of the forum-then follow the step by step guide. They

have forty days to comply .

Send both letters by recorded delivery so you have proof of delivery and in

future do not talk to them on the phone-only ever deal by letter with them.

[NailPost]

I would ignore Mackenzie Hall and never ever call them again. Rude and aggressive behaviour are one of the pre-requisites for their call centre staff it would appear.

 

But having faced threats of employer contact I would definately report them to the Office of Fair Trading and question the fitness of this company to hold a consumer credit licence. I would also report them to the Information Comissioner for threatening to breach the Data Protection Act and question their fitness to hold personal data and their use of it.

 

Neither of these offices may act upon your complaints but they all add up and when the day of reckoning comes your complaint will count.

[denver]

Thanks for the advice.

Lookforinfo, I take it you mean send CCA request to MacKenzie Hall as they seem to be handling the debt now (this year). The last letter from Nationwide was in December.

Will MH have bought the debt? If so and they fail to comply with the CCA will that mean that the debt is sold back to Black Horse, another company or written off?

[dollypops]

Mac Hall are proabaly working as agents for Nationwide regarding collection of this debt.

 

You will most likely find that after you send them a CCA Request then they will pass it straight back to Nationwide and thats the last you will hear of Mac Hall, really, you do not need to worry about Mac Hall hey are a bunch of clowns running a two bit operation (i have been in their 'premises') they probably see the big words written in a CCA request and get all confused.

 

If they phone you again, wind them right up, you know you are better than them and its YOU who has the upper hand, at the end of the day its only money, you can't pay what you don't have.

 

Once they pass it back to Nationwide, you may want to send them a CCA request as well, or even a SAR to find out how much of this debt is made up of charges, then you can start the process of putting the account in dispute until you get these charges refunded.

 

I am sure someone will be along shortly with more detailed advice than i can give.

 

Chin up, and sock it to them !

[denver]

Thank you:) . CCA on it's way to MH.

[denver]

Quick update. I called Black Horse yesterday and asked them to confirm that MH were now handling the debt. The woman found my details instantly, said yes they are and then for some reason (idiot) I told her of the CCA request. She said "MH haven't got any agreements but I can send you a copy". I informed her that I have now entered into correspondance with them about this so I will wait for MacKenzie Hall's response. Why did she offer the agreement if it's gone to MH?

I called Black Horse a second time to try and clarify the position of MH. The bloke I spoke to could not find my details and put me on hold for 10 minutes. When he returned he confirmed that Black Horse had SOLD THE DEBT to MH.

Does that mean Black Horse now have absolutely nothing to do with the debt? i.e. if MH mess up with the CCA etc. it can not be bounced back to Black Horse?

[denver]

Today a copy of the agreement arrived with no compliment slip or letter to say where it had come from. The postmark makes me believe it has come from Black Horse.

Black Horse has already informed me (verbally) that they have sold the debt to MH (in a phone call yesterday).

Am I right to ignore this unsolicited copy of the agreement and wait for the response from MH to my original request?

As far as I'm concerned I haven't received anything (it wasn't sent recorded or registered and with no clue as to who sent it).

This may sound petty but after the way they spoke to me (while I was trying to come to an agreement) I will legally obstruct these b***** any way I can.

[NailPost]

Is the agreement signed by both parties? If its not you can ignore any demands by MHall and others because its not properly executed.

 

Don't start me on fun ways to legally obstruct MHall!!! Its easy and great fun is all I'll say (at this stage)

[denver]

Yes, signed by both.

Going back to my original point, am I safe to ignore this copy for now as it has been sent annonymously (I think by Black Horse after my phone call - not in response to MacKenzie Hall from whom I've requested it)?

[lookinforinfo]

Denver, the copy of the original agreement is about half of what you should be sent. If you read the contract-and you should-if there is a mention of any other documents within it [like their T&Cs] then copies of those should be included too.

In addition there should be a signed statement outlining all the payments you have made to date, and the payments you have missed along with the total

debt now outstanding. If you have a payment plan agreed with them, then the due dates of your payments should be included.

 

 

What you should also look out for in the documents are things like who they

can tell when you miss payments-read that very carefully as most only

allow them to inform the debt collector, there is no provision for thr DC to be able to pass your data on to others for instance. Keep an eye out for breaches that you can pull them up for, or to pass on to Trading standards as a complaint, or even just as a threat.

[NailPost]

The documents appear incomplete and in addition to those already listed you don't seem to have been told officially of the statusof this debt. Have Black Horse really sold it to MHall or not? MHall don't normally buy debts but they created a debt buying company last year so that may be trading. Whatever, you should have receive a note telling you what's going on.

 

You could send the CCA request to MHall and wait to see what they come up with - if anything. Should they default you can safely ignore them and report them to the relevant authorities.

 

Don't expect OFT to do anything but all complaints are logged and if they reach the roof the paper pushers may decide to do something. Trading standards in your area and MHall's (East Ayrshire District Council) should also be told of their breach.

[denver]

If I haven't had a response from MH when the 2 weeks are up I'll send them another recorded letter reminding them of the criminal offence they will commit if I don't get a response within the month.

The copy sent (from God knows who) is a photocopy of the faxed agreement sent to them from the shop when I signed it. Shouldn't they (the creditor - Black Horse or MH) have the hard copy that the shop should have posted to them with my real signature on it?

[lookinforinfo]

Denver, patience is a virtue. Just let MH go about producing the CCA

requirements in their own sweet way. Thay should be well aware of the time

conditions imposed by the Act. The time to let them know that you also know

is after they failed to comply and have committed a criminal offence. There

is nothing to be gained by alerting them before. Just sit tight and do nothing.

[denver]

Yes, I will wait . I'm just a little jumpy about this annonymous copy that's been sent. I'm imagining a scenario where BH have sent it (even though I asked them not to as I was dealing with MH) and they have informed MH that it has been sent. However, there is no proof of delivery. Nothing was signed for.

[lookinforinfo]

Denver, to comply with the CCA request, as I explained on an earlier thread,

you need more than just a copy of the original agreement. AS both BH and

Nationwide have Consumer Credit licences, they will know the requirements,

and they will know that they have failed so far to comply with those

requirements.

If they do write to you making demands, write straight back pointing out that

until they comply with your CCA request, they are not entitled to pursue

you for the debt, and that you will report them to the OFT as not fit to hold

a Consumer Credit licence should you receive another letter from them

before they comply with the Act.

[denver]

For everybody's information. I have still heard nothing else from MacKenzie Hall (or indeed Black Horse).

[denver]

I had a phone call yesterday from Allied something. They asked for my DOB and something else to prove that I was Mr. Denver and muttered something about the Data Protection Act. I said I had no idea who they were, would not give them any information and that they should write to me. He said "it's about your Black Horse account and we have written to you". I told him that I haven't received anything and he then said, unbelievably, "No you wouldn't have, it was only sent yesterday". I said that I'll wait and read what it says. He then went on to check my address which I foolishly confirmed. Was he, in reading to me my address, contavening the Data Protection Act? He hadn't confirmed my identity.

Anyway it looks like MacKenzie Hall have thrown in the towel. It's either been sold on to Allied by McH or Black Horse. Looks like another CCA request OR DOES IT?

Because McH didn't respond to my original CCA request 2 months ago does that mean they shouldn't have done anything with the debt including selling it on?

[denver]

Latest: Allied sent a yellow card in the post asking me to contact them re Black Horse account. I've sent a CCA.

[powelll]

It's a pain but if the debt passed onto another DCA just CCA 'em like you are doing...they will be well aware that they can't continue to pursue until this is provided ( what a shame they all seem to feel that, in fact, consumer law and OFT guidelines DO NOT refer to them!! ).

 

Best of luck mate stick to your guns:cool:

[denver]

Ok, we're off again. Since I sent the CCA request to Allied on the 26 April they have tried to call me on numerous occasions. I recognise the number and just cancel the calls. I sent an harrassment letter and that seems to have stopped the calls.

HOWEVER, I have now received a letter from Allied demanding payment and threatening legal action. This is dated 29th May, just over a month since my CCA request letter was received and signed for by Allied.

I know that they can not chase the debt while they have not supplied the CCA but that is exactly what they are doing. What action can I take now or should I just ignore it?

[NailPost]

Ignore them!

 

To issue a legal claim they would have to prove to a judge they have the right to the debt. That would mean producing ORIGINAL documents pertaining to this matter.

 

If Mackenzie Hall and Allied have been unable to provide even copies of these documents then the likelihood of them having the originals is about as remote as the moon being made of cheese.