Yes or No?

[Scrooge]

Hi all - I'm new here!

 

Being a disgruntles ex-banker turned Director now, I fully relaise this is a Discussion Database for Consumers. I have many clients but one in particluar has a major issue on a business to business contract. Could anyone help with this one - I'm not going to burden my keyboard if not, but if so could anyone help as I've been through the local TSO and am now having to go through a costly solicitors action!!

 

Scrooge :???:

[jonni2bad]

Hi Scrooge, I'm certain that between the admin and mod staff they could come up with answers to your questions, even if not immediately.

 

I'm also certain that without a little more info up front, we won't get far. Is there any chance you could offer a brief outline, rather than a 'full disclosure'?

 

If so, I will ensure that other members of the team get to see this.

 

John

[dave]

We'd certainly need to know more about the major issue.

 

Also, you say it's one of your clients - what line of business are you in?

[Scrooge]

Hi Dave / John,

 

Firstly, as I said, I'm an ex-banker and now run a bookeeping and payroll business. I act as FD for a few clients with whom I have built up the necessary trust etc etc.

The problem is.....

 

My client enetered into a Lease Agreement with a Company (who shall remain anon.) to provide a high spec photocopier. My client runs Apples and he was categorically told that it would integrate seemlessly with his environment. He has to pay £450 / Q for under the lease arrangement plus copiying charges (7p for colour and 2p BW). Under the deal he gets £100 per Q towards his copying charges. Thats the background...

Well before Xmas last, he had a large run to copy (brochure style) and all the copies were basically crap in so far that he had to chuck out many of them as the print quality was rubbish. Time upon time we complained and they sent engineers both their own and also for the Manufacturers. The log shows about 6 individual visits. We were told that this machine was no good in the environment. We were also told that the counter on it, was knackered in that when we copied one colour, it couneted that plus one B+W!!!

We started to complain and asked whether they would take back the copier (ripping up the agreement) based on the fact that we had been mis-sold....and guess what, the Business Owner handled the sale to us. We were told that yes we could hand it back but only by paying the lease finance off which was circa £3500! (The usual under such and agreement)

Letters went "to and fro" and we never got anywhere. I informed the local TS office and they could not do much as this was a B2B contract. They saw our side of it, but suggested that we take solicitors advice.

The copier is now redundent. we are paying out the LP charges and odd copying charges but this is dead money.

My issue here is that we were mis-sold, but nothing was ever written down saying that it would fit in with our environment. Surely we can evade solicitors fees to get shot of this peice of junk. We even thought of thowing it down the lift shaft and claiming on our Office Insurance.

Now you know why my name is "Scrooge" but in my day to day work, being an ex-banker I look closely at Bank Charges and Overheads that are being paid out un-necessarily.

Not sure if you can help or advise but "its a drain on working capital"

Scrooge:confused:

[jonni2bad]

Thanks for your reply Scrooge.

 

I'm sure that this will now receive a bit of a collective thought process. You should expect a response in due course.

 

Never one to miss an opportunity, perhaps your background in banking might be of equal benefit to us. Any chance you might be willing to offer some thoughts on our campaign, advice or information that could be of real use? Behind closed doors is fine..... it doesn't need to appear here....

 

John

[Scrooge]

John,

Yes no problems......I used to work for that well known Bank - you know the one - the one without the "Royal" word !

I also remember their slogan of years ago "A friend for Life" which we changed to "Life for a friend" - just short of two decades!

I'll also be sure to keep an eye open for replies and equally I've seen all the posts in the Bank Forum.

[BankFodder]

I'm not sure about the status of the lease agreement in that I am not quite sure who would be the defendant in an action. Also does a lease agreement amount to a contract of Sal? Probably not. I am sure that there must be some information on these points which would clear the matter up.

 

It you can point to a contract for sale then you should be able to rely on s.14 Sale of goods Act - linked in the library.

If it is not a contract for sale, the contract will still be subject to implied terms similar to those in the SOG Act - either because of specific legislation or else implied by common law.

What does the lease agreement say about responsibility for the quality of the copier and absolute ownership?

These are just technical matters.

 

What is important is why it is failing. The counter is clearly a problem but it is not one which will allow you to treat the contract as ended.

 

I gather from you that it is the "environment" which is causing the problem.

What is wrong with the environment? Did the suppliers know about the environment before they sold you the copier - and come to that, who specified the machine and what basis? Did they visit the premises?

You may gather now that I am trying to fasten responsibility for this on someone.

 

Do you have the comment about the environment in writing?

 

Have you contacted the manufacturers? I think that would be wise to contact them and explain to them exactly what is happening. Their opinion will be important. If they say that the machi8ne should never have been specified for those circumstances, this will be useful. On the other hand they may say that their machine is easily up to the job and should cause no problem. This also would be helpful because it would show that you have been supplied with a defective machine.

I would suggest that you record conversations if at all possible because you may not be able to get corroboration in writing.

 

Ideally you should get the manufacturers to send an engineer out to make an assessment and a written report. If you can show that someone else is liable then you will recover the cost of the report.

 

Give the leasing company written notice that you are going to do this.

 

The wost scenario for you will be if you have specified the machine yourself and that the environment is so unusual that the supplier or leasing company will be able to disclaim liability because of your special circumstances which they could not possibly have forseen.

[jonni2bad]

B/F - Just a small point, but I think the term 'environment' is this context relates to the network of existing computers and peripheral hardware, rather than, for example, inclement weather conditions.

 

The existing environment is made up of Apple computers, so the client seems to have been told that the photocopier would work well with this make and network.

 

John

[Scrooge]

Many thanks for all your valued comments.

Most of the comments that BF has thankfully contributed, I have noted and I think that the only way round this one is to write to Canon, the manufacturers to ask them for thier comments, since the Suppliers did have an engineer from Canon come to the offices to look at it.

 

Lets see what happens after I have written that letter.

 

Agian - many thanks.

[bram stoker]

My client enetered into a Lease Agreement with a Company (who shall remain anon.)

Canon by any chance??

[BankFodder]

B/F - Just a small point, but I think the term 'environment' is this context relates to the network of existing computers and peripheral hardware, rather than, for example, inclement weather conditions.

 

The existing environment is made up of Apple computers, so the client seems to have been told that the photocopier would work well with this make and network.

 

John

Of course! I knew that. Did you really think that I imagined humidity and rusted computers with algae growing all over them? Rubbish!

 

Actually, that's what I did think ... maybe I'll just get my coat.

[Guest Lueeze]

PMSL!

[jonni2bad]

 

Of course not, it was, erm, merely for the benefit of other viewers.....

[BotB]

My client runs Apples and he was categorically told that it would integrate seemlessly with his environment.

 

We were told that this machine was no good in the environment.

 

So the salesman said it was just the job and the engineers said it was a dead loss for what you wanted?

 

Sounds like misrepresentation to me - i.e. it wasn't a term of the contract that the copier would work with your computers but the sales babble induced you to sign the lease which you wouldn't otherwise have done had the non-compatibility been known.

 

You don't say how long ago this lease agreement was signed. Its all about acceptance of the goods - keep them too long and you're deemed to have accepted, warts and all.

What does the contract say? (Rhetorical question)

I can't tell you anymore than that, its been a long time since I did any contract law.

[Scrooge]

This topic was closed on 09 March 2019.

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