Azzuro/Shires Capital On Tap B2B business credit card debt with personal guarantee.

[Reneigh2858]

Hello, New hear and apprehensive so pls be kind :-).

I have the same issue described,

Azzurro/Shire Recoveries - old capital on tap debt business loan i guaranteed - who do I deal with? - Page 2 - PayDay loans and Short Term loans - General - Consumer Action Group

my husband started a ltd company in Oct 2019 just prior to Covid,

he was offered business to business credit via capital on tap and signed a personal guarantee.

He defaulted on the agreement when business suffered during covid.

He buried his head in the sand for several months (I wasn't even aware!!!) to add further context he has PTSD and ADHD - Very impulsive.

Debt was sold by COT to azzurro associates who have then assigned it to Shire recoveries.

Shire report they are acting on behalf of Azzurro I assume they do not own the debt.

Debt is 20K

for the last year we have made payments of £160 p/m.

This is reviewed every three months.

They have said their client will no longer accept these amounts. 

Unhelpfully husband has never kept any correspondence I have requested the original agreement, I;m still waiting.

I am unclear on my rights with B2B lending

[AndyOrch]

Please start your topic on this matter I didn't realise you wanted someone else topic opening.

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

gather all the info first

send COT an SAR.

is the business registered at your home address?

ltd or sole trader?

is it now formerly registered closed?

dx

 

[Reneigh2858]

Are they obliged to send copies of the correspondence they have sent? I saw on another thread that COT wouldn't deal with the SAR as they'd sold debt to Azzurro

Business not registered to home address however we have been receiving letters to home address, it is a limited company. 

 

Azzurro are requesting personal and business bank account statements

Business still trading...just! only other debt is BBL but this is been paid via a payment plan.

 

TIA Tanya

[dx100uk]

you are not after correspondence you want a complete sar just send it.

just because someone else gave up and never posted again here and didnt push it to the authorities to enforce the sar, you dont.

good that its no registered at the home ad and as its a limited company thats good too.

shame about the pers guarantee but i wonder if its enforceable.?

have you still got all the paperwork or will you  have to await the sar return/

why sell such a large debt for pennies... something is wrong..find out what it is.

for now ignore azzurro until/unless he ever gets a letter of claim.

 

[Reneigh2858]

I have a similar view, why sell it on, however when living with it it feels really tough. They did previously offer a full and final settlement too.

He hasn't kept any paperwork, I have kept all email correspondence I have had with them and proof of payments since I began liaising with them on his behalf from January 2023. Have I shot myself in foot with entering into negotiations. All negotiations have been with Shires but now I feel silly as they do not own the debt?

Am I not making things worse if I stop talking to them should I still continue the interim payments I have been making? He accepts the debt and in the long run wants it paid just can't afford to in full right now or at an extortionate monthly rate?

just a quick one, been looking at the sample SAR letters in a separate thread. In preparing SAR do I send it RE information  from the ltd company as they lent the money to the business not him personally or directly in my husbands name, he is the sole director?

Thanks for your patience

[dx100uk]

just hit sar

thats what to send read all the posts there too

you send it as whomever they are naming on their letters .

nothing to stop you ref he is the sole director of xxx ltd co though

dx

[Reneigh2858]

Still haven’t had copy of personal guarantee but I have found some old paperwork that may be relevant

I have a default notice from capital on tap in name of my husbands ltd company.

It references the consumer credit act however I did not think this was relevant on b2b lending,

I will post a copy - can you offer a view.

Total amount owed also not detailed

.thanks  

 

 

COT DN + dec 21 letter.pdf

[Reneigh2858]

Me again,

I now have a copy of the contract and personal guarantee (after waiting 16 weeks) which I have attached.

I Really need some advice. Personal guarantee states that credit amount is 15K  two payments were missed in  August and September 2021 and a CCA default notice served (see previous post - I didn't think this was applicable to B2B lending) 

When the account was assigned to Azzurro  it was £23,500.

I have not had an account summary from Azzurro and I'm just really unsure what the options are

- any suggestions.

SAR has been done to original creditor COT.

TIA

C-K CONTRACT.pdf

[dx100uk]

in the last upload what date is on the default notice please you've removed that but strangely left account numbers all over the place!!

[Reneigh2858]

Apologies I'm not massively tech savvy thought I'd removed everything. There is no date on the letter aside from the two dates it references payments were missed

[dx100uk]

ARE YOU 1000% sure!! it MUST be dated for date sent

then the default notice is void and does not meet section 87/8 of the consumer credit act..

.i was wondering why COT sold a business credit card debt of some +£20k  - now we know!!

also noticed another point it says by the quoted date - again that is NOT in the prescribed format for a DN. it must be a DATE DD/MM/YYYY

 

azzuro you bought a lemon debt and your rolling eyes at £££ clouded your gamble.

just so we nail things down going fwd 

can  i confirm the credit card (only ONE was ever issued?)  is in his/ltd co name and the pers guarantee names him as the guarantor.

in others word you nor noone else are named.

dx

 

[Reneigh2858]

 

Should the default notice even have been served as its B2B lending rather than CCA?

1000% sure there is no date on this letter.  The bits blacked out at the top are the address and handwritten notes by my husband.

Only one credit card was issues in the ltd company name. The personal guarantee names him as guarantor nobody else is named.

Thanks 

 

[dx100uk]

Probably not covered by the CCA BUT that doesnt mean they can just makeup their own rules regarding a DN's content, layout and what it must/should include IMHO.

something smells very badly here why sell a debt of £12k when they could have crushed him in court

lets hope the SAR throws something up. from the Comms/account log note from operators.

 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Given the creditors relies on sec 87(1) in its attempt to create a default notice (which is not legally valid) then you can only assume that the credit is regulated by the CCA1974 because of him signing a personal guarantee.

You really need a copy of the agreement to clarify this as it would have major implications on enforcing the debt in court.

 

Andy.

 

.

[Reneigh2858]

Thanks for your responses. I uploaded the agreement yesterday. I can’t see any ref to CCA in it. 

 

Thanks  

[AndyOrch]

So you did...no reference to the the CCA1974 so its unregulated. The DN may just be a red herring as a DN is not legally required ona unregulated debt.

[Reneigh2858]

So what would be the advice… continue to try work with shires (dca appointed by Azzurro) to continue a payment plan? or complain about the default notice been sent in error and not valid anyway?

If dn is not required on unregulated debt what is the alternative - letter before action? 

i’m feeling that I’m missing something as it’s been pointed out by others on here why sell the debt? 
 

3 hours ago, Reneigh2858 said:

Just to add I have maintained a payment plan with them since dec 2021 never missed a payment they are just asking for more than I can afford.

 

[AndyOrch]

Its irrelevant why the debt has been assigned for many reasons by the original creditor who will have most certainly written it off and claimed it as a loss for tax reasons and simply not worth litigating on and assigned it for as little as 10p in the £.

A simple demand or late notice would be issued on an unregulated debt once the agreement has been breached a Default Notice is not required.

With regards with what to do well you have or still are making payments which are subject to review they are unwilling to agree to the current payment amount. I would continue to pay the same amount and if they wish to litigate you have the perfect defence..." They will not accept our monthly payments  Judge, but we are paying its just fulfilling their greed " 

 

[dx100uk]

any news?

[Reneigh2858]

I have made a complaint to Azzurro (who own the debt)  RE Shires (appointed DCA) conduct, I have been in ongoing liaison with them however they continue to send letters threatening court and misrepresenting the situation ie. insinuating that they cannot make contact  dispite our best efforts etc etc - 100% incorrect!

Azzurro originally said - It's not our problem but after some push back said that if I'm not satisfied with the response from Shires they will take in back to their in house collection team - Solaris Law. Trouble is they are now both passing responsibility to one another and atm nobody is doing anything or responding so that's with the ombudsman for review. 

In regards to the SAR sent by original creditor (Capital on Tap), its so difficult to review as its tiny however  they continued to increase his borrowing despite him beginning to experience difficulties paying the money back. I can't see if they did any additional affordability checks - I'm thinking to go back and question this?

I can see on the SAR that he was part of a DPA arrangement set up on 19.10.21 which agreed a payment plan of £160 per month for 6 months. 

First payment was due 26.10.23, and it shows this was paid on that date however a default letter was sent on 27th , Chris called and was told this was a standard letter and could be ignored. 

He made a further payment as agreed on 23.11.21 (was due on 26.11.21). On 29.11.23 his debt was then sold/assigned to Azzurro who appointed Shires to recover on his behalf however this is not shown on the SAR but I do have letter of assignment.

I have attached the terms and conditions of the DPA - I'm not sure if its my interpretation or whether it means the debt shouldn't have been sold and therefore cannot be enforced? would appreciate your view.

 

Thanks 

 

sar info (cot) (2).pdf

[dx100uk]

it looks a bit silly to have started silly pointless letter tennis here, you just make them feel important when they are not.

what are you trying to achieve here?

dx

[Reneigh2858]

It is important to me, I’m trying to manage this independently whilst my husband is on the verge of a mental breakdown.I’ve followed the advise on her to get the SAR the point of which I understood to be trying to understand /find the anomaly as to why the debt was sold and whether it can be enforced. 

 I can’t get them to agree a payment plan at present and if I know I have leverage re enforcement  than I do not have to have more sleepless nights about it. May seem silly to some but doesn’t seem so silly when you are in it.

 

Thanks T

Edited February 13 by Reneigh2858

[dx100uk]

well we'll need to see the full sar return to find out, it may have been a simple commercial decision to sell it on but ive got my doubts.

is there a complete signed agreement and signed PG from azzy so far?

dx